MATCH THREAD: Connacht vs Leinster, 19th Sept 2014 19:35, The Sportgroud, TG4

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

There is definitely confidence among the Connacht supporters, and rightly so tbh. There were times last season where you could see what Lam was trying to do and it looked good. Then last week we saw them win a game that, in any other season, they'd have normally lost. There is no question in my mind they are going the right direction.

And remember there's a good number of young lads in that squad that this is being built around.

Dragons and Edinburgh are poor sides. Yet Connacht made incredibly hard work of beating Edinburgh last week. There were good chunks of the game they were simply shooting themselves in the foot. For all the positives about winning that game it will require a big improvement this week to get the win. They do tend to produce their best against us so I'm expecting it to be fairly tight, but like I said earlier you'd have to back the side with the dozen internationals versus the side with 1 or 2.

You didn't answer to my "academies" examples

Hagz

connachta wrote: »

OH Really? McSharry was fired by Leinster and still did Emerging Ireland

Provinces make mistakes with very young talents, hard to anticipate how they develop on a 5-10 years period. they make choices, especially when there are 2 or 3 contenders for a single contract. But these choices are sometimes 45-55, which could easily turn itself to the reverse, in the professional arena

McSharry was never fired by Leinster. He was never under contract with Leinster. He was in the sub-academy and his leg injury prevented him from playing u20 rugby and he became an unattractive option for recruitment into the Academy.

I know it's silly to harp on about such a minor point, but I just need to reiterate that in no way is it an even match up when comparing Bryan Byrne and Shane Delahunt. One has played hooker all through school, was taken straight into the academy, is in his final year and was the starting hooker for a Clontarf side that won the league last season. The other only made the switch to hooker last season and is in his first year in the Connacht Academy. Let's be real here.

freyners

sydthebeat wrote:

i think connacht are in for a rude awakening here.
This isnt a leinster squad going to the sportsground in the rain and sleet of a christmas week, with internationals injured or rested from November exertions.

Last time that happened it was a 34-6 win for us:eek:

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

McSharry was never fired by Leinster. He was never under contract with Leinster. He was in the sub-academy and his leg injury prevented him from playing u20 rugby and he became an unattractive option for recruitment into the Academy.

Just a shortcut, the idea is 'an unattractive player could prove being a good option in the end". Hope the same for Roux

I know it's silly to harp on about such a minor point, but I just need to reiterate that in no way is it an even match up when comparing Bryan Byrne and Shane Delahunt. One has played hooker all through school, was taken straight into the academy, is in his final year and was the starting hooker for a Clontarf side that won the league last season. The other only made the switch to hooker last season and is in his first year in the Connacht Academy. Let's be real here.


Made an U20 6 nation appearance to be more balanced

right

molloyjh

connachta wrote: »

You didjn't answer to my "academies" examples

I'm not sure what I can say tbh. You said that sometimes academies get it wrong. They do. I could counter with the fact that more often than not they get it right, but we're entering the realms of the hypothetical and we have no way of knowing if it even applies in this case.

Byrne was accepted into the Academy where-as Delahunt wasn't. Byrne went on to play a role in the Leinster A B&I successes. He has now started getting game time with the senior squad. He has followed the path mapped out in the Academy pretty well. And he's getting game time ahead of Dundon who is a decent and experienced hooker. What has Delahunt done? And is he only getting a shot here through injury?

I'm not trying to be smug here by any means. If Delahunt turns out to be a fantastic hooker than that can only be a good thing all round. But you seem to be basing a lot of your argument about Delahunt (and other players) on the possibility that you might be right rather than on anything concrete and meaningful. Maybe you are, but all the evidence thus far would suggest the opposite. And that's all any of us can really go on so far.

molloyjh

connachta wrote: »

Made an U20 6 nation appearance to be more balanced

Byrne has 6 U20 caps. This is just getting daft now.

Hagz

connachta wrote:

Just a shortcut, the idea is 'an unattractive player could prove being a good option in the end".

I'm not arguing that. I'm addressing your original point that Delahunt and Byrne are even. Delahunt may well prove to be a good option in the end, but tomorrow night is not the end. Tomorrow night is the present, and presently Byrne is a level above Delahunt.

former legend

connachta wrote: »

[/B]

Made an U20 6 nation appearance to be more balanced

You seem to be arguing "Delahunt is a good player" when the actual argument is "Byrne is a better prospect/more developed".

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

I'm not arguing that. I'm addressing your original point that Delahunt and Byrne are even. Delahunt may well prove to be a good option in the end, but tomorrow night is not the end. Tomorrow night is the present, and presently Byrne is a level above Delahunt.

I didn't say they're even. I said they will both play 10-15 minutes in the end, both inexperienced when professional pressure comes in tight match, so it could well end to a draw. maybe a 0-0 draw, no scrum no darts for them, who knows? My point is none of them is ready to be decisive, and both of them could collapse..

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm not sure what I can say tbh. You said that sometimes academies get it wrong. They do. I could counter with the fact that more often than not they get it right, but we're entering the realms of the hypothetical and we have no way of knowing if it even applies in this case.

Byrne was accepted into the Academy where-as Delahunt wasn't. Byrne went on to play a role in the Leinster A B&I successes. He has now started getting game time with the senior squad. He has followed the path mapped out in the Academy pretty well. And he's getting game time ahead of Dundon who is a decent and experienced hooker. What has Delahunt done? And is he only getting a shot here through injury?

I'm not trying to be smug here by any means. If Delahunt turns out to be a fantastic hooker than that can only be a good thing all round. But you seem to be basing a lot of your argument about Delahunt (and other players) on the possibility that you might be right rather than on anything concrete and meaningful. Maybe you are, but all the evidence thus far would suggest the opposite. And that's all any of us can really go on so far.

Agree I admit about those ponderate words

Hagz

It wasn't very clear by what you meant to be honest. Usually when people do a head to head comparison of players, it's an indication as to who is the better player in a general sense. So when someone has two players down as a draw, it generally translated that they think both players are pretty evenly matched.

But if you meant that they will draw because they will both get minimal game-time and thus minimal opportunities to make any impact, then I can't disagree too much with that.

sydthebeat

freyners wrote: »

Last time that happened it was a 34-6 win for us:eek:

the very reason i dont think we are going there with anything but focus and fight.

Shelflife

For those that are travelling to the match tomorrow night, the Connacht Clan supporters club will be interviewing Danie Pooleman after the game in the Clan bar.

All are welcome, if you visit our supporters site/forum there are plenty of suggestions/advice as to where to go for festivities afterwards where your match ticket may even get you some free pints and you can discuss the match all over again with opposition supporters and your own.

connachta

freyners wrote: »

Last time that happened it was a 34-6 win for us:eek:

The Leinster team we hammered 34-6 a couple of years ago was as follows:

Kearney
McFadden
Macken
D'Arcy
Carr
Madigan
Cooney

van der Merwe
Sexton
Hagan
Denton
Roux
Marshall
Jennings
Auva'a

They also brough Cronin, Healy, Ross, Toner, Jordi Murphy, Luke McGrath, Noel Reid and Isa Nacewa off the bench, and had Uncle Joe in charge

Not a bad team either

AngeGal

connachta wrote: »

Not a bad team either

Not a bad team at all but the difference in the two packs is considerable tbf. Looking forward to seeing Denis Buckley. Really think Buckley has all the tools if he stays disciplined to reach the highest levels but tomorrow will tell us alot more.

Connacht are obviously underdogs but we have a puncher's chance. If we make it very competitive affair (picking up a lbp if we do lose) putting in our best performance of the season thus far and avoid any more bloody injuries, I'd be very happy.

its_phil

connachta wrote: »

The Leinster team we hammered 34-6 a couple of years ago was as follows:

Kearney
McFadden
Macken
D'Arcy
Carr
Madigan
Cooney

van der Merwe
Sexton
Hagan
Denton
Roux
Marshall
Jennings
Auva'a

They also brough Cronin, Healy, Ross, Toner, Jordi Murphy, Luke McGrath, Noel Reid and Isa Nacewa off the bench, and had Uncle Joe in charge

Not a bad team either

They also lost D'Arcy in the first ten minutes and had to put Reid in with Macken. McSharry then proceeded to rip that untried midfield apart. It was the catalyst for our BP win which we were worth but probably would not have happened if D'Arcy was still on the pitch

jspuds

Is there English commentary available even on radio?

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

It wasn't very clear by what you meant to be honest. Usually when people do a head to head comparison of players, it's an indication as to who is the better player in a general sense. So when someone has two players down as a draw, it generally translated that they think both players are pretty evenly matched.

But if you meant that they will draw because they will both get minimal game-time and thus minimal opportunities to make any impact, then I can't disagree too much with that.

Ok, I wasn't clear that's right

My head-to-head is not only based on talent and experience (absolute value), I said it at first, but also on fitness and momentum for a 1 match "fight", taking place on a precise date and dynamic

that's why I flattened the gap between Adeolakun and McFadd, the 1st is more healthy and has confidence. No way I'd say the same in absolute value

For Delahunt/Byrne I flattened because they're young enough to both miss completely the few minutes they'll play, or simply won't touch the ball
But if you say Byrne was that impressive last week, he had some time to find his feet, ok

AngeGal

jspuds wrote: »

Is there English commentary available even on radio?

Galway Bay fm will be doing live commentary but it's usually five or six seconds ahead of the tv so too annoying to watch with TG4 on, if that was your plan.

molloyjh

its_phil wrote: »

They also lost D'Arcy in the first ten minutes and had to put Reid in with Macken. McSharry then proceeded to rip that untried midfield apart. It was the catalyst for our BP win which we were worth but probably would not have happened if D'Arcy was still on the pitch

We also lost Rob very early on to a back injury. Isa had to pull out of the starting XV prior to kick off with illness but was kept on the bench and ended up replacing Rob. But you're right, Reid was very green then, as was Macken. Its quite different this time around.

Plus a few of the lads playing that day are involved again tomorrow so won't be getting complacent.

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

We also lost Rob very early on to a back injury. Isa had to pull out of the starting XV prior to kick off with illness but was kept on the bench and ended up replacing Rob. But you're right, Reid was very green then, as was Macken. Its quite different this time around.

Plus a few of the lads playing that day are involved again tomorrow so won't be getting complacent.

And we've to compare with what Connacht had

Connacht starting lineup

• 15 Henshaw
• 14 O'Halloran
• 13 Griffin
• 12 McSharry
• 11 Vainikolo
• 10 Parks
• 9 Marmion
• 1 Buckley
• 2 Flavin
• 3 White
• 4 Swift
• 5 McCarthy
• 6 McKeown
• 7 O'Connor
• 8 Naoupu
• 16 Harris-Wright
• 17 Wilkinson
• 18 Loughney
• 19 Gannon
• 20 Faloon
• 21 Moore
• 22 Nikora
• 23 Fafita

former legend

The 34-6 game is of no relevance at all. If anything, it will work against Connacht.

Mike McCarthy is/was the difference

connachta

former legend wrote: »

The 34-6 game is of no relevance at all. If anything, it will work against Connacht.

It's just to compare strenghts and weaknesses, nothing more

freyners

former legend wrote: »

The 34-6 game is of no relevance at all. If anything, it will work against Connacht.

Of course it doesnt. The only reason I brought it up was in response to someone inferring that the absence "rain and sleet of a christmas week" will weaken our chances. Its a lazy stereotype that the likes of RTE perpetuate.

Work against us is another lazy phrase imo. I can see what you mean in that it will caution Leinster against being complacent but you can easily say that it will give Connacht belief that we are more than able to beat them.

former legend

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mike McCarthy is/was the difference

And Fionn Carr.

former legend

freyners wrote: »

Work against us is another lazy phrase imo. I can see what you mean in that it will caution Leinster against being complacent but you can easily say that it will give Connacht belief that we are more than able to beat them.

Lazy? Maybe, if it's lazy to point out the obvious. Connacht rely massively on catching better teams on the hop, on them not being prepared or taking it seriously. I'd hope that it will be a while before Leinster do likewise again.

its_phil

former legend wrote: »

Lazy? Maybe, if it's lazy to point out the obvious. Connacht rely massively on catching better teams on the hop, on them not being prepared or taking it seriously. I'd hope that it will be a while before Leinster do likewise again.

Yep. Lazy and throw in out of touch with other teams while we're at it.

sydthebeat

freyners wrote: »

Of course it doesnt. The only reason I brought it up was in response to someone inferring that the absence "rain and sleet of a christmas week" will weaken our chances. Its a lazy stereotype that the likes of RTE perpetuate.

.

ive been in the sports ground on a christmas week versus connacht and i can tell you 'rain and sleet' is not a lazy stereotype.

my point is that leinster may have been complacent or ill prepared previously whereas they certainly should not be this time, they have had their asses handed to them on a plate by being out played AND by being out fought. read joe schmidts comments after the 34 - 6 game for example.

they are always hard fought games

former legend

its_phil wrote: »

Yep. Lazy and throw in out of touch with other teams while we're at it.

Not sure I get what you mean by out of touch but...

Connacht's recent history is peppered with big results that they haven't been able to follow up. Their biggest win ever in Toulouse was followed up by concession of a try bp at home the following week. Saracens snuck out of Galway with a narrow win and what happened in the return leg? The previous season, pretty much the exact same with Quins and Biarritz. Is there not a pattern there? Fool me once, etc. Since the 34-6 game, their record against Leinster is P3 L3.

Now, I've amplified my point with concrete examples. If it's an inconvenient truth for you, I'm sorry about that, but lazy it is not.