Petrol "stretching"

Bandara

mossy50 wrote: »

im running windows xp the famine version and it wont load up
the test was carried out by

JGH ANALYTICAL SERVICES AT A COST OF 85EUROS .THE TEST TOOK 48 HOURS TO DO .THEY CHECKED FOR ACIDITY,WATER,BIO ADDITIVES .IT CAME BACK WITH A READING OF 6 - 10% KEROSENE ADDED TO PETROL AND OTHER PARTICLES . THE KEROSENE DENSITY WAS 0.78-O.89LGCM3 ON BOTH TESTS whatever that means.

which falls in line with 3 BENT PISTONS COATED IN A NICE THICK LAYER OF A CARBON TYPE SOOT WHICH BASICALLY CHOKED THE ENGINE

Tbh that sounds very plucked from the sky (I am referring to the testers, not you.) For a lab to say "6 - 10% KEROSENE ADDED TO PETROL AND OTHER PARTICLES" is pretty unacceptable, I've never seen anything like that inaccuracy on an approved test, any results I have ever seen are reported to an accuracy of one tenth of a percent.

As an aside the required test to NSAI standards costs between €400-€500, €85 for a correct test is a bit like getting your car serviced for a tenner.

The most basic of methods should start with these headings.

Petrol Tests: Method:
Appearance: Visual
Benzene Content: ASTM D4053
Conductivity: ASTM D2624
Density: IP 160
Distillation: IP 123
Free Water: Visual
Microbes (F/W phase): Colony Count
Research Octane #: ASTM D2699
Salinity: Silver Nitrate
Sediment: Visual
Sulphur Content: IP 336

Then onto a Distillation test with 5 variants

Initial Boiling Point
Recovery@ 70°C
Recovery@100°C
Recovery@150°C
Final Boiling Point

And onto another raft of tests of which every single result is reported such as contamination etc etc, all are benchmarked against both NSAI standards and expected market standards.

Anyway, I hope it gets resolved for you.

ironclaw

mossy50 wrote: »

JGH ANALYTICAL SERVICES AT A COST OF 85EUROS .THE TEST TOOK 48 HOURS TO DO .THEY CHECKED FOR ACIDITY,WATER,BIO ADDITIVES .IT CAME BACK WITH A READING OF 6 - 10% KEROSENE ADDED TO PETROL AND OTHER PARTICLES . THE KEROSENE DENSITY WAS 0.78-O.89LGCM3 ON BOTH TESTS whatever that means.

which falls in line with 3 BENT PISTONS COATED IN A NICE THICK LAYER OF A CARBON TYPE SOOT WHICH BASICALLY CHOKED THE ENGINE

Just going to say, I ran sections of this through Google and a lot of it is verbatim from other sites and findings.

DropBox or otherwise link the report, or honestly this isn't worth discussing.

relax carry on

mossy50 wrote: »

im running windows xp the famine version and it wont load up
the test was carried out by

JGH ANALYTICAL SERVICES AT A COST OF 85EUROS .THE TEST TOOK 48 HOURS TO DO .THEY CHECKED FOR ACIDITY,WATER,BIO ADDITIVES .IT CAME BACK WITH A READING OF 6 - 10% KEROSENE ADDED TO PETROL AND OTHER PARTICLES . THE KEROSENE DENSITY WAS 0.78-O.89LGCM3 ON BOTH TESTS whatever that means.

which falls in line with 3 BENT PISTONS COATED IN A NICE THICK LAYER OF A CARBON TYPE SOOT WHICH BASICALLY CHOKED THE ENGINE

Just out of curiosity, did you pass a copy of the report onto the Guards or your local customs as from memory the last update I saw on kildarestreet.com regarding petrol was 1 confirmed case of stretching in the country.

mayo.mick

relax carry on wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, did you pass a copy of the report onto the Guards or your local customs as from memory the last update I saw on kildarestreet.com regarding petrol was 1 confirmed case of stretching in the country.

Another 2 cars I know off with engines destroyed since Christmas eve here in town.

expectationlost

Revenue has sent a total of 208 samples from across the country to the State Laboratory – just two samples (from one unnamed filling station) were found to have evidence of a stretching agent, and a file is being prepared for prosecution.

http://connachttribune.ie/no-prosecutions-yet-over-petrol-stretching-in-galway-303/

Trojan

I'm doing big mileage at the moment and steering well clear of any station here in Mayo, making sure to fill up on the east coast when I'm there.

If I was an owner of one of the non-stretching stations in the region I'd be doing a lot more to aggressively get the message out that my fuel was guaranteed clean.

expectationlost

Transport Committee to examine the issue of petrol stretching with @insuranceirl and @The_CAI http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/name-26186-en.html tmw 21st

pa990

expectationlost wrote: »

Transport Committee to examine the issue of petrol stretching with @insuranceirl and @The_CAI http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/mediazone/pressreleases/name-26186-en.html tmw 21st

I thought the general consensus was that it was a bad fuel batch that was brought in form the UK, sold mainly by a Gem of a franchise.

There are reports in the UK media of bad fuel having come from a particular refinery (near pembrook i think) and that this fuel was recalled in the UK.



*gets tinfoil

expectationlost

pa990 wrote: »

I thought the general consensus was that it was a bad fuel batch that was brought in form the UK, sold mainly by a Gem of a franchise.

There are reports in the UK media of bad fuel having come from a particular refinery (near pembrook i think) and that this fuel was recalled in the UK.



*gets tinfoil

can ayone find any decent news reports on that?

pa990

a very quick search bring up

www.carmarthenjournal.co.uk/Review-2014-September-December/story-25796794-detail/story.html

DECEMBER

Rush hour traffic in Carmarthen was brought to a standstill due to drivers being left stranded after filling up with “contaminated” petrol at Carmarthen’s Morrisons supermarket.Fuel giant Murco said it was investigating how contaminated fuel from its Milford Haven refinery was delivered to Morrisons in Carmarthen and also to the Llanelli branch.A large number of cars broke down after filling up.

I remember reading other stories about it at the time

pa990

more here..

http://www.llanellistar.co.uk/Local-Morrisons-confirms-petrol-contamination/story-24737162-detail/story.html

and

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/petrol-stations-run-unleaded-petrol-contamination/story-22290344-detail/story.html

and

http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/North-Devon-fuel-stations-given-contaminated/story-22700746-detail/story.html


and, i'm sure there are a lot more

munchkin_utd

they are actually now in session and its watchable live here:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/live-flashplayer/committeeroom4/

2 Wheels Good

Report on the Oireachras meeting from the Irish Times here

Special Circumstances

So the cost will be pushed back on the people indirectly via insurance or fuel costs.

How about the Gardai/Customs/CAB trace this to the source and the culprit pays out instead?
If the papertrail doesn't exist, then regulate so that the papertrail must exist in future and if it doesn't then serious fines apply - not the kind of slap on the wrist stuff they usually apply to cowboys.

Chances of this happening? Zero.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Special Circumstances wrote: »

So the cost will be pushed back on the people indirectly via insurance or fuel costs.

How about the Gardai/Customs/CAB trace this to the source and the culprit pays out instead?
If the papertrail doesn't exist, then regulate so that the papertrail must exist in future and if it doesn't then serious fines apply - not the kind of slap on the wrist stuff they usually apply to cowboys.

Chances of this happening? Zero.

Because the alleged source of the contaminated fuel is a big businessman who seems to have the government in his pocket and is getting all sorts of contracts from the government.

Special Circumstances

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Because the alleged source of the contaminated fuel is a big businessman who seems to have the government in his pocket and is getting all sorts of contracts from the government.

Welcome back to our bonus round, "vested interests in vague traceability"

Good choice contestant,you've allegedly chosen door number 1. Allegedly.

And what was behind door number 2? Millionaire oil sheiks in the border counties. Allegedly.



Allegedly. ;-)

Aircraft Freak

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Welcome back to our bonus round, "vested interests in vague traceability"

Good choice contestant,you've allegedly chosen door number 1. Allegedly.

And what was behind door number 2? Millionaire oil sheiks in the border counties. Allegedly.



Allegedly. ;-)

Didn't you know stretching is called "additives" by some

expectationlost

pa990 wrote: »

a very quick search bring up

www.carmarthenjournal.co.uk/Review-2014-September-December/story-25796794-detail/story.html






I remember reading other stories about it at the time

thats a pretty immediate effect compared to what people were experiencing here?

mayo.mick

There is no major update on the Customs Service investigation into petrol stretching.
That’s according to Mayo Fianna Fail Deputy Dara Calleary.
Deputy Calleary raised the issue of petrol stretching during a recent Dail debate on the reform of the Customs Service.
However he was informed by Minster Simon Harris that there is no update on the investigation.
Deputy Calleary says that many people affected by the issue have been left in limbo, 6 months on from the first reports of petrol stretching.
While many motorists have received insurance payments for damage sustained to their cars, some have lost their no-claims bonuses.

expectationlost

gov again say the 'petrol stretching' incidents was more likely to be accidental contamination
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-01-28a.119&s=petrol+stretching#g120.q

Following a series of further tests conducted by the state laboratory, results were received which indicated the presence of traces of road diesel in several samples taken from a variety of locations. This could indicate that petrol was contaminated with road diesel at some point in time. There is no rational economic reason or fraudulent incentive for anyone to mix normal road diesel with petrol. This contamination could have taken place well ahead of the problems related to fuel quality that manifested themselves in vehicles.

If the problems that have come to light were caused by unintended contamination resulting from diesel being inadvertently mixed with petrol at some point along the supply chain, there would be no Revenue offence involved. In any instances where the analysis of petrol samples by the State Laboratory indicates the presence of illegal stretching agents in petrol, Revenue will take robust action and pursue prosecutions against offenders where possible. Revenue will also continue to work closely with An Garda Síochána and to share information and intelligence with them on this issue.

and similar in this pq https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-02-04a.32&s=petrol+stretching#g33.q

pa990

There were reports of petrol contamination in the UK , about the same time as our 'stretching'

Apparently from a refinery in pembrokshire (!)

This fuel was recalled in the UK, but some of it made its way here, alegedly via dublin port, and was mainly sold to one specific retailer.

But this fuel company could not be named by the Prime Time show, due to certain legal correspondence.

Alegedly

expectationlost

pa990 wrote: »

There were reports of petrol contamination in the UK , about the same time as our 'stretching'

Apparently from a refinery in pembrokshire (!)

This fuel was recalled in the UK, but some of it made its way here, alegedly via dublin port, and was mainly sold to one specific retailer.

But this fuel company could not be named by the Prime Time show, due to certain legal correspondence.

Alegedly

what reports of petrol stretching in the UK?

the reports you posted before said water contmination http://www.llanellistar.co.uk/Local-Morrisons-confirms-petrol-contamination/story-24737162-detail/story.html

Renegade Mechanic

pa990 wrote: »

There were reports of petrol contamination in the UK , about the same time as our 'stretching'

Apparently from a refinery in pembrokshire (!)

This fuel was recalled in the UK, but some of it made its way here, alegedly via dublin port, and was mainly sold to one specific retailer.

But this fuel company could not be named by the Prime Time show, due to certain legal correspondence.

Alegedly

We do seem to get the sh*te in everything.. Ffs I thought petrol was at least safe

Wheelnut

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

We do seem to get the sh*te in everything..

I think some of the problem is due to sh*te servicing!

I have no doubt that some people have a problem with contaminated fuel but many others have the results of neglect / incompetence and it suits to blame it on "petrol stretching"

Bandara

Wheelnut wrote: »

I think some of the problem is due to sh*te servicing!

I have no doubt that some people have a problem with contaminated fuel but many others have the results of neglect / incompetence and it suits to blame it on "petrol stretching"

Spot on imo

I've many many times had customers report that their mechanic said their car failed because of 'dirty petrol/diesel'

In close to 15 years never once has the lab test come back with a fuel issue

The mechanics suddenly go extremely quiet and upon second inspection they find another issue with the car rather quickly

I've also yet to meet the mechanic who will put in writing on a report to me that a car has issues with dirty fuel, they'll whisper it and spread false accusations but when it comes to being professional and dealing with the customers issues correctly they all change their minds when asked for a report explaining their findings

Renegade Mechanic

*clears throat*



Yer lucky enough to be in better parts of Ireland then. For a the most part, Tipp and surrounding areas are just bloody cruel...

Servicing is piss poor, alright. People insist on following the manufacturers "30,000+ km service intervals intervals" which doesn't help cases either. I try showing them how the air or fuel filters look at 60,000 km (like a concrete block, btw, with our road level air quality. ) but all I get is: "Then why does the book say 60k? Stop trying to screw me over!" Nothing to do with the fact that they doggedly strive to go to the same fuel station over and over and over and over again because it's 5 cent cheaper than everyone else in a town (thurles) that's already notorious.
It's beyond pointless at this stage.

expectationlost

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Nothing to do with the fact that they doggedly strive to go to the same fuel station over and over and over and over again because it's 5 cent cheaper than everyone else in a town (thurles) that's already notorious.
It's beyond pointless at this stage.

has this notoriuos station ever gotten a visit from the police or revenue?

Wheelnut

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

*clears throat*



Yer lucky enough to be in better parts of Ireland then. For a the most part, Tipp and surrounding areas are just bloody cruel...

No doubt about the dirt in that filter! However it looks several years old to me so it's bound to have some dirt in it, that's what filters are for.

EDIT: I don't mean that amount of dirt is acceptable.

Renegade Mechanic

expectationlost wrote: »

has this notoriuos station ever gotten a visit from the police or revenue?

Many do. And often. But for the same reason they won't just abolish dying altogether and let farmers/whomever else legally uses green submit receipts to the tax office and claim back the tax (oh no, they'll be able to use it in their jeeeeeeeeps!!!!!!), nothing seems to be done outside of closures that lead to reopenings.

100s or 1000s of surplus govt staff need to make money somehow and a bloated, inefficient fuel monitoring system is the most lucrative way of doing that :mad:

Renegade Mechanic

Wheelnut wrote: »

No doubt about the dirt in that filter! However it looks several years old to me so it's bound to have some dirt in it, that's what filters are for.

EDIT: I don't mean that amount of dirt is acceptable.

It was one and a half, the car was three.
My god the warranty battle that ensued...