Petrol "stretching"

Tea 1000

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-talk/drivers-told-to-be-alert-for-petrol-stretching-30539815.html

Revenue Commissioners, Customs and Excise and Gardai have been investigating the practice after reports of significant fuel contamination in the west, border regions and midlands.

Petrol stretching involves adding up to 10pc of kerosene to petrol before selling it to unwitting drivers.
- See more at: http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-talk/drivers-told-to-be-alert-for-petrol-stretching-30539815.html#sthash.BDwzkY2K.dpuf

Valetta

The elasticity of supply and demand.

dantastic

So as a consumer you are now expected to bring with a lab kit and test the petrol before filling. Nice one.

It's the same as saying;
We know there's a problem, but we are going to pretend that you are responsible.

Name and shame.

blastman

That tips video was next to useless. Keep an eye on your compression? How is that advice helpful (for 99% of motorists)?

micks_address

i was chatting my car dealer about this at the weekend, i was asking him about a local garage and he was saying it was grand.. was a bit concerned that their price seemed a bit lower..

Anyway he showed me a couple of pictures of engines of 141 cars they had gotten back which were basically piston heads caked with carbon..

All petrol engines..

Big Nasty

I wonder is this happening in just the non branded cheap fuel sites or has it been found in branded sites too?

Spike Witwicky

Be handy if there was a name n shame website to avoid these places.

Axel Lamp

Spike Witwicky wrote: »

Be handy if there was a name n shame website to avoid these places.

Alas it would need to be located in a lawless jurisdiction as the libel laws would murder the site operator

Dial Hard

Axel Lamp wrote: »

Alas it would need to be located in a lawless jurisdiction as the libel laws would murder the site operator

It's only libel if it's not true.

Tea 1000

Looks like it's a lot more damaging than laundered diesel to an engine.

Chimaera

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Looks like it's a lot more damaging than laundered diesel to an engine.

I wouldn't say that. It's a different sort of damage.

Laundered diesel does its damage because the acid used to remove the marker dye is rarely washed out properly. This will cause a lot of damage to the fuel system components. It'll also tend to have more water in it, again because they're not that careful about removing it during processing.

Kerosene in petrol will mainly cause coking because it's not burning the kerosene properly. So you get carbon deposits in the head, and probably in the cat too. Too much of this will eventually cause trouble but it's more easily undone and if it's caught in time it's reversible. Acid and water damage to DFIE is permanent and cumulative.

As for spotting it, the smell should be a bit of a giveaway. Kerosene has a pretty strong smell and it's very distinct from the smell of petrol so if there's any meaningful amount of kerosene in petrol you'll probably get a whiff of it while filling up.

blade1

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's only libel if it's not true.

There would bound to be at least a few wrongly accused.

pudzey101

Where's the best garage / place ? Heard stay away from topaz and amber? Maxol is supose to be the best with the highest levels of octane , any truth to this ?

Chimaera

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's only libel if it's not true.

A lot of people don't have the money to defend a libel action even they are right, so it's an effective means of shutting people up regardless of the truth of what they're saying.

Dartz

Kerosene drops the octane rating of the fuel.

Melting pistons I'd well believe if it's causing the engine to detonate. But the car's ECU should detect the misfire and either flag it with a flashing CEL - or knock back the spark. And then flag it. Especially since modern engines have such high compression anyway.

Carbon buildup is nothing a good hard shoeing won't solve. Petrol engines need to be run at more than a constant 1500rpm to get the chamber temperatures and pressures high enough.

Besides, IIRC, Dipetane is a kerosene formulation?

jimgoose

pudzey101 wrote: »

Where's the best garage / place ? Heard stay away from topaz and amber? Maxol is supose to be the best with the highest levels of octane , any truth to this ?

Forget about octane. Unleaded 95 is just perfect. Stay away from cowbows and fellas wirth Monaghan accents. If it's too good to be true, it is. I personally prefer ol' J.R. at Texaco.

Alan_007_

Would this petrol return less mpg than non stretched petrol?
I've noticed before when I've filled up at a certain petrol station that I've gotten consistently between 10-15% less mpg than I would filling up at other stations. Also noticed a distinct lack of power in the car from filling up at this place, just wondering could stretching be the cause here?

pudzey101

I know from own experiences and others that apple garage fuel is dirt , car went down on power and few my mates had misfires , what stations do ye get your fuel from ? Thinking of switching to maxol or tesco

Dartz

pudzey101 wrote: »

I know from own experiences and others that apple garage fuel is dirt , car went down on power and few my mates had misfires , what stations do ye get your fuel from ? Thinking of switching to maxol or tesco

I think Applegreens adds ethanol to theirs...

I also add about 100:1 2-stroke oil too...

Zimmerframe

Anton Savage is currently on the Last Word about this issue. He is also talking about changing red to green diesel and obviously he doesn't even know what colour normal auto diesel is.

Alan_007_

pudzey101 wrote: »

I know from own experiences and others that apple garage fuel is dirt , car went down on power and few my mates had misfires , what stations do ye get your fuel from ? Thinking of switching to maxol or tesco

I've heard that about applegreen too, but I've never had any issues with them tho ...I normally get it from topaz or applegreen and don't notice any problems from either of them

Alan_007_

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Anton Savage is currently on the Last Word about this issue. He is also talking about changing red to green diesel and obviously he doesn't even know what colour normal auto diesel is.

Yeah noticed that myself, really doesn't inspire confidence in anything you have to say when you get that obvious fact wrong!

Chimaera

Alan_007_ wrote: »

Would this petrol return less mpg than non stretched petrol?
I've noticed before when I've filled up at a certain petrol station that I've gotten consistently between 10-15% less mpg than I would filling up at other stations. Also noticed a distinct lack of power in the car from filling up at this place, just wondering could stretching be the cause here?

Absolutely. It can't burn properly in a petrol engine so you're going to get poor combustion, poor economy, poor power.

bbability

I know a lad working in a Main Dealer in Co Meath area. Has seen a number of cars in the past month or so with engines destroyed from this racket. This is a serious issue but it's one thing knowing about it and another proving it. It seems to be around midlands and parts of Meath especially.

BMJD

Spike Witwicky wrote: »

Be handy if there was a name n shame website to avoid these places.

it would be handier if the justice system worked and those who were doing it were punished appropriately, thus shutting them down permanently

random spot checks in petrol stations --> prosecutions --> proper sentencing

it's not rocket science

Cerco

Which is lighter ,kero or petrol? Just wondering if you took a sample and put it in a glass jar, would you see a separation?

Anjobe

Cerco wrote: »

Which is lighter ,kero or petrol? Just wondering if you took a sample and put it in a glass jar, would you see a separation?

Kerosene is the heavier, but they are both hydrocarbon fractions of petroleum and as such are miscible in all proportions.

dar83

jimgoose wrote: »

Forget about octane. Unleaded 95 is just perfect. Stay away from cowbows and fellas wirth Monaghan accents. If it's too good to be true, it is. I personally prefer ol' J.R. at Texaco.

Depends what you're running really, for certain cars 95 octane is far from just perfect.

corkgsxr

Alan_007_ wrote: »

I've heard that about applegreen too, but I've never had any issues with them tho ...I normally get it from topaz or applegreen and don't notice any problems from either of them

I get Feck all out of a tank of applegreen on the gsxr.

dar83 wrote: »

Depends what you're running really, for certain cars 95 octane is far from just perfect.

Any standard production car should run perfect on 95.

CJhaughey

corkgsxr wrote: »

Any standard production car should run perfect on 95.

Japanese pump fuel is 100 octane, some Jap imports don't like the junk we get here.

RandomAccess

Would this affect Turbo or N/A cars differently?
Due to differences in compression etc?