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Petrol "stretching"

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    #332
    mayo.mick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭mayo.mick


    anningalway wrote: »
    My car write off due to bad petrol.... just happened Christmas week. Always got fuel from reputable fuel station never went for cheaper petrol so you would wonder and leaves you with doubt where best place is to get petrol.

    There are still cars being affected by petrol stretching. Cars that don't do high mileage are only showing the effects now, from petrol bought as far back as August. I myself have not been affected (yet, hopefully not) as I don't put up high mileage on my car. I always buy petrol form the "same reputable" garage, though that doesn't seem to make any difference. There's an article in the Western again today about it.

    Swinford Weather



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    #333
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    mayo.mick wrote: »
    There are still cars being affected by petrol stretching. Cars that don't do high mileage are only showing the effects now, from petrol bought as far back as August. I myself have not been affected (yet, hopefully not) as I don't put up high mileage on my car. I always buy petrol form the "same reputable" garage, though that doesn't seem to make any difference. There's an article in the Western again today about it.

    I sincerely doubt a car contaminated by bad fuel in August is being affected now. Most people fill up once if not twice per fortnight at minimum, that's 11 fills of the tank at worst.

    As I said before, I think a large majority of this scare is nothing to do with fuel. Its just poor maintenance combined with perhaps a dash of contamination. Are all the cars affected otherwise mechanically perfect? This is the average Irish driver we are talking about.


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    #334
    mayo.mick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭mayo.mick


    petrol-stretching-dec-2014_zps2d7fac13.jpg

    Swinford Weather



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    #335
    Joe 90
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭Joe 90


    I often wonder just how much alcohol is in the fuel at home? Serious question.


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    #336
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Joe 90 wrote: »
    I often wonder just how much alcohol is in the fuel at home? Serious question.
    Is your home anywhere near Tracey island? In the marionette archipelago? Serious question.


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    #337
    Joe 90
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭Joe 90


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Is your home anywhere near Tracey island? In the marionette archipelago? Serious question.
    By at home I mean in Ireland. Just wondering because older engines don't like high alcohol fuels and you read claims of people getting better MPG with fule bough in the North than with fuel bought in the South. Would sort of suggest that there is more alcohol in fuel in the South.


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    #338
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    mayo.mick wrote: »

    //Western Article

    With respect to all involved, not exactly a scientific read consider the broad range that author also covers. The only person in any way qualified to comment is a senior mechanic specialising in fuel related issues or a petrochemical engineer. And by my last check, both qualifications had contributed to his thread from numerous sources and drawn a blank.

    Also, as regards only seeing the damage now, that means the fuel is still out there. Because if you got a fill in August, you'd need to be topping up the contamination to see any noticeable effects week on week. It will take longer but your going to need the same amount of fuel as someone doing bigger mileage. So, with that in mind, why have the vast majority of samples come back clean?


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    #339
    anningalway
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭anningalway


    Can assure all the I got my car serviced when due and maintained extremely well and did a considerable amount of mileage not just into town and out kinda stuff. My concern is where is safe to get petrol nowadays and if I get another petrol car where in the name of God do I hope to get safe fuel. Thankfully my insurance company have been extremely helpful and are will be dealing with the matter. I know others have not been as lucky. Is this just border counties and western counties that are affected. Any reports of this in eastern counties Dublin etc,...


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    #340
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,796 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    anningalway wrote: »
    My car write off due to bad petrol.... just happened Christmas week. Always got fuel from reputable fuel station never went for cheaper petrol so you would wonder and leaves you with doubt where best place is to get petrol.

    did you talk to the station.


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    #341
    anningalway
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭anningalway


    Yip and no satisfaction and of course cant prove it as dont have documentation etc to prove it.


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    #342
    mossy50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭mossy50


    2 Wheels Good wrote: »
    What part of the country are you in?
    right on cavan meath border


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    #343
    digit1
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭digit1


    Our neighbour had a very new toyota and the engine packed in. Toyota replaced the engine free of charge. A month later he was back again with the same problem. Turned out he was also the victim of petrol stretching.


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    #344
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    digit1 wrote: »
    Our neighbour had a very new toyota and the engine packed in. Toyota replaced the engine free of charge. A month later he was back again with the same problem. Turned out he was also the victim of petrol stretching.

    How did they know it was petrol stretching?


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    #345
    digit1
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭digit1


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    How did they know it was petrol stretching?


    The first time it happened, Toyota took at as a faulty engine. In the meantime there were several other cases locally directed towards one particular petrol station. Then his engine went a second time and Toyota asked him where he had been buying his petrol. It was the same garage as all the other cases.


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    #346
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,796 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    digit1 wrote: »
    The first time it happened, Toyota took at as a faulty engine. In the meantime there were several other cases locally directed towards one particular petrol station. Then his engine went a second time and Toyota asked him where he had been buying his petrol. It was the same garage as all the other cases.
    so what happenned to that station?


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    #347
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    digit1 wrote: »
    Our neighbour had a very new toyota and the engine packed in. Toyota replaced the engine free of charge. A month later he was back again with the same problem. Turned out he was also the victim of petrol stretching.

    Now, maybe the full desktop version of the site includes your location but, for the benefit of mobile users, could you give the town/city where this happened.


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    #348
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Now, maybe the full desktop version of the site includes your location but, for the benefit of mobile users, could you give the town/city where this happened.

    No additional info on the full site


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    #349
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    pa990 wrote: »
    No additional info on the full site
    Guessed as much.

    I know a place giving away free Passats. Not telling ye where though...


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    #350
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,796 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Denis Naughten https://twitter.com/DenisNaughten/status/551403485091340288
    Great new app from @djaxial which will help in the fight against petrol stretching https://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/breosla/id952429163?ls=1&mt=8 spread the word!

    https://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/breosla/id952429163?ls=1&mt=8
    Breosla is an app to allow you to quickly check if the station you are getting your fuel from is licensed with the Irish Revenue Commissioners. Using freely available data from the database of registered Auto-Fuel Traders in Ireland, Breosla allows you to search based on brand, address, county and trading name. Comprising over 2500 stations in the Republic of Ireland, you can be one step ahead in ensuring the fuel you are receiving is from a licensed trader. Breosla, the Irish for 'fuel', was made in response to the petrol stretching incidents prevalent in the Irish motoring community.

    despite being sceptical about the amount of petrol stretching there is and that people have gotten damage engines even after buying fuel and licensed stations, if it makes it easier to search the official list particularily on your mobile, it'll be a useful app.

    this is the official revenue xls file http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/mineral-oil-traders/licensed-auto-fuel-traders.xls MS Excel Licensed Auto Fuel Traders @ 01st January 2015 (MS Excel, 549KB) theres ~2400 on the list

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/

    what about other petrol listing apps surely they only list licensed stations, there many other ,fuel distributors apps, sat-navs that list them as POI's, fuel cards app etc but a simple app that just supplies this info is useful.

    pumps.ie App https://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/pumps.ie/id299003577?mt=8 http://pumps.ie/about.php
    Pumps.ie is Ireland's premier online petrol and diesel price guide. All prices and station closures are entered by the public and so should be regarded as such!

    ?


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    #351
    Damien360
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Damien360


    I just looked at your excel sheet and in the area I know well, Naas, Newbridge and surrounding areas, every single on of the petrol stations are listed.

    It is a list of licensed fuel traders. Everyone who trades fuel must hold a license for excise and duty reasons. The issue is when some of these very licensed stations decide to "stretch" the profit. This list will not help. If you are buying your fuel from the back of someones house then you are asking for trouble. This list obviously does not have these guys but it does not show the licensed guys up to no good.

    Is there any court case pending from this petrol stretching ? Surely in the example given above of Toyota engines in trouble and they linked this to one petrol station should be enough ?


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    #352
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Nail on the head there Damien.

    Can anyone from the previous posters with alleged/suspected/confirmed damage from petrol stretching answer this:

    Did your (confirmed/suspected) contaminated petrol come from one of the stations in the list?

    My guess is that many of these people will find their suspect station is on this list - so the list is only useful for telling if a station is licensed or not. But a licensed station is no guarantee of decent petrol.


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    #353
    mossy50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭mossy50


    petrol station is listed but not much good to us now .car is still off the road and were facing a 2500euro bill for a new bloody engine


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    #354
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Chimaera wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that. It's a different sort of damage.

    Laundered diesel does its damage because the acid used to remove the marker dye is rarely washed out properly. This will cause a lot of damage to the fuel system components. It'll also tend to have more water in it, again because they're not that careful about removing it during processing.

    Kerosene in petrol will mainly cause coking because it's not burning the kerosene properly. So you get carbon deposits in the head, and probably in the cat too. Too much of this will eventually cause trouble but it's more easily undone and if it's caught in time it's reversible. Acid and water damage to DFIE is permanent and cumulative.

    As for spotting it, the smell should be a bit of a giveaway. Kerosene has a pretty strong smell and it's very distinct from the smell of petrol so if there's any meaningful amount of kerosene in petrol you'll probably get a whiff of it while filling up.

    Would smell like avgas


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    #355
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    mossy50 wrote: »
    petrol station is listed but not much good to us now .car is still off the road and were facing a 2500euro bill for a new bloody engine

    Did you have the petrol tested to confirm it was contaminated?


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    #356
    Joe 90
    Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭Joe 90


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Would smell like avgas
    More like jet fuel. Avgas is proper leaded petrol, jet fuel, Avtur or Jet A1 is kerosene.


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    #357
    mossy50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭mossy50


    Stheno wrote: »
    Did you have the petrol tested to confirm it was contaminated?
    yes


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    #358
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    mossy50 wrote: »
    yes

    Contaminated with what though?


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    #359
    Bandara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭Bandara


    mossy50 wrote: »
    yes

    Could you post the lab report here pls. Obviously blank out the name and private details on it. Just the first page of the report on both samples, the one from your fuel tank and the one from the service station. That's how a correct test is done.

    I do not believe you have a report that states that your car has 'stretched petrol'.


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    #360
    mossy50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭mossy50


    no hassle ill put the whole report up for you


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    #361
    mossy50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭mossy50


    im running windows xp the famine version and it wont load up
    the test was carried out by

    JGH ANALYTICAL SERVICES AT A COST OF 85EUROS .THE TEST TOOK 48 HOURS TO DO .THEY CHECKED FOR ACIDITY,WATER,BIO ADDITIVES .IT CAME BACK WITH A READING OF 6 - 10% KEROSENE ADDED TO PETROL AND OTHER PARTICLES . THE KEROSENE DENSITY WAS 0.78-O.89LGCM3 ON BOTH TESTS whatever that means.

    which falls in line with 3 BENT PISTONS COATED IN A NICE THICK LAYER OF A CARBON TYPE SOOT WHICH BASICALLY CHOKED THE ENGINE


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