Irish Rail strike days

tommieob

Sorry for sounding a bit selfish, but, having forked out €3,800 for a yearly ticket, who do I need to contact to get compensation for having to pay €40 and an extra 2 hours commute to get home from work tomorrow evening?

mickydoomsux

tommieob wrote: »

Sorry for sounding a bit selfish, but, having forked out €3,800 for a yearly ticket, who do I need to contact to get compensation for having to pay €40 and an extra 2 hours commute to get home from work tomorrow evening?

Refund details for Taxsaver tickets are on the Irishrail website.

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Essentially people want a public transport system that isn't paid for from the public purse that somehow manages to keep running on God knows what.

Save money through running the smallest possible sets, cut wages/conditions of employees and increase fares to paying customers to allow us to keep providing 1.1 million people with All-Island Free Travel all while paying the company who is running the entire show less every year to do that.

There won't be much left of the railway network if those 1.1million people stop using the trains on a regular basis!

If the free travel passes are withdrawn the numbers using the railway and other public transport will plummet an the first casualty will unfortunately be the railway. lines will be cut back to larger towns, services will be cut and trains shortened, fares will increase to counter the removal of almost all the subsidy.

Bus services in and around the Dublin area and dart services will fare best but all other services will be decimated.

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

There won't be much left of the railway network if those 1.1million people stop using the trains on a regular basis!

Well, if their journeys were necessary then they would pay for their ticket (even a token amount) and still travel.

Otherwise they are just traveling for the sake of it because they don't have to pay. Is that what the free travel scheme was created for?

As i've said before i have no problem as such with the scheme other than the fact that it is woefully underfunded.

The equivalent of €100 a year per passenger for All Island travel on a variety of different modes of transport? How does that make sense to anyone?

You can't actually purchase a ticket that allows you to do that and yearly tickets for individual routes run into the thousands of euro. How is this fair to anyone besides the person getting the free ride?

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Well, if their journeys were necessary then they would pay for their ticket (even a token amount) and still travel.

Otherwise they are just traveling for the sake of it because they don't have to pay. Is that what the free travel scheme was created for?

As i've said before i have no problem as such with the scheme other than the fact that it is woefully underfunded.

The equivalent of €100 a year per passenger for All Island travel on a variety of different modes of transport? How does that make sense to anyone?

You can't actually purchase a ticket that allows you to do that and yearly tickets for individual routes run into the thousands of euro. How is this fair to anyone besides the person getting the free ride?

There won't be any shortage or overcrowding if that many people are excluded, according to staff estimates on here at least half of staff will be on the dole as so many services will be cut out and cut back. 1.1million passengers, it will be worse than any cuts that went on in the 50's or since the first run of the rocket!

and yes that is one of the reasons the scheme was introduced in the first place, to allow people who would otherwise not be able to get out and about have the freedom to travel.

end of the road

to sum it up, your both right. the scheme exists to get people out who wouldn't otherwise, and if abolished could cause most public transport services to be removed. it is being abused by some, and it needs to be payed for in full though

mickydoomsux

You'd wonder how other countries that make people actually pay for the services they use function at all.

Their public transport must be in a terrible state.

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You'd wonder how other countries that make people actually pay for the services they use function at all.

Their public transport must be in a terrible state.

They mostly have much greater population densities than here in Ireland so their railways have always had much higher numbers than here and they are able to have transport police to counter fare evasion and anti-social behaviour which is something that is not feasible in Ireland.

as for these strike days, the public will have less and less support for staff who they perceive to have taken only very small cuts so far when everyone else including those pensioners and disabled with free travel have had cuts all around. the cuts to their sick days and holiday entitlements etc in the last year still fell far short of bringing them into line with the normal working public. When people hear about staff having up to 10 uncertified sick days a year when most of the public sector only have 3-5 days it shows that CIE and Irish Rail staff are still living in a cloud.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

as for these strike days, the public will have less and less support for staff who they perceive to have taken only very small cuts so far when everyone else including those pensioners and disabled with free travel have had cuts all around.

strangely more people support them then one would think

foggy_lad wrote: »

the cuts to their sick days and holiday entitlements etc in the last year still fell far short of bringing them into line with the normal working public.

whats the "normal working public" and why would and should they be brought into line with them considering different jobs will have different terms and conditions and even in the same industries terms and conditions can be different from employer to employer?

foggy_lad wrote: »

When people hear about staff having up to 10 uncertified sick days a year when most of the public sector only have 3-5 days it shows that CIE and Irish Rail staff are still living in a cloud.

if they are hearing that its probably from one of the gutter rags in fairness, i don't believe irish rail staff have, and haven't had for a long time, 10 sick days per year

Infini

end of the road wrote: »

to sum it up, your both right. the scheme exists to get people out who wouldn't otherwise, and if abolished could cause most public transport services to be removed. it is being abused by some, and it needs to be payed for in full though

To be honest about 60% of those using people on the scheme are old people. Noone here is gonna say the HAVE to pay for their train ticket at this point they have done their time BUT at the most they shouldnt be free during the rush hours either. At most they should be paying the privilage fare (25% of the normal fare) for ON peak services. It was a political stunt by Seamus Brennan to remove the restrictions for them years ago anyways and now its come back to bite everyone in the arse.
The remaining 40% needs to be looked at though expecially those companion passes since theres quite a bit of shenanigans going on with them. As it stand the most potent and immediate way at cutting fraud at this point would be to declare the old cornflakes box passes invalid for all under 65 and specifically clear up this group 1st (not to mention remove all the junkies in one fell swoop as well) since Old people are easy to prove (age duh! )
The goverment will have to look at this because realistically neither IR or the Government can afford to continue to bear the costs of it in its current form.
One other thing to note that England which is a much larger country with privatised railways doesnt have free travel on the rail period. You get a concession fare for the old folks but thats it.

As for the subsidy theres already a commisioned report showing the railway is underfunded by €60m. In addition expecting staff to take a forced pay cut after agreeing to a previous cost saving plan in 2012 to 2016 for leaving core pay alone (which has been frozen since 2007) in return for reduced conditions only to reneigh on that agreement less than 2 years via stuffing up middle management with unnessesary jobs and goverment meddling via deliberate subsidy cuts is also unrealistic. Expecially now theyre too late to be forcing cuts at a time things are on the up and costs are rising. The place is grossly and dangerously undermanned on the frontlines because of this and both depotstaff and drivers are clear that therye not having any more of it.

As for possible examinership thats a mixed bag because while some would think the workers could lose their jobs realisicaly atm the frontline jobs are at such low levels that if it happened the remaining lads would be unlikely to go since theres just not enough left. Management are the ones fearing it moreso than anything because if it happens then SERIOUS questions would start being asked. I believe when the DAA came in there years ago a bunch of managers were tossed back out on the front lines because they were in jobs that werent even needed there.

Theres also the fact that if workers were being threatened with job losses because of mismanagement and governemnt meddling this would more than trigger an all out national transport strike as well with the remaining two companies because the workers in the other 2 companies which belong to the same unions definately wouldnt sit around idly by lest they be next for the same treatment down the road.
Remember what happened with irish ferries a few years ago when they tried getting rid of the old staff for contract people on slave labour wages.

foggy_lad wrote: »

They mostly have much greater population densities than here in Ireland so their railways have always had much higher numbers than here and they are able to have transport police to counter fare evasion and anti-social behaviour which is something that is not feasible in Ireland.

Its not feasable with unmanned stations in Dublin either you know its unfortunately quite easy for the determined to fare evade atm on the DART and Commuter networks since there simply not enough checkers even with the boosted numbers they robbed from other depots theres simply just not enough.

foggy_lad wrote: »

as for these strike days, the public will have less and less support for staff who they perceive to have taken only very small cuts so far when everyone else including those pensioners and disabled with free travel have had cuts all around. the cuts to their sick days and holiday entitlements etc in the last year still fell far short of bringing them into line with the normal working public.

Actually alot of people do support the workers expecially when you explain they DID take cuts only for the Goverment/Management to break the agreement. The lads striking as well are mainly depotmen, checkers and drivers that are on fixed rate contracts theres no sunday doubletime payments or tripletime bank holiday payments either they went for them back in 2001 with the new deal contracts. This is a cut to core pay at a time when the economy and prices are on the rise it resonates with alot of people. The 3 unions that did agree are mainly made up of clerical and some trade staff on significantly higher rates of pay than the rest but even at that when you add up all the no votes from all 5 unions the majority of staff still voted against the pay cuts being imposed.

foggy_lad wrote: »

When people hear about staff having up to 10 uncertified sick days a year when most of the public sector only have 3-5 days it shows that CIE and Irish Rail staff are still living in a cloud.

FYI The staff only get 4 self-certs a year. That was one of the terms of the 2012 cost saving agreement.

devnull

I see Timmy Dooley is coming out with his usual crap about how the minister is upping the stakes by deducting subsidy for the days when the strike happens and how this is basically stirring the whole situation up.

Clearly he doesn't understand that generally when you are contracted to provide a service and don't provide that service, it's pretty unusual to get paid for it? I'm sure if FF contracted an outside PR agency etc in and paid for certain number of days work and they did not carry out the work they'd not want to pay for it either.

Loughc

So has anyone been badly put out with their commute to work this morning?

I got to WFH today so based on that reason, I'm all for these strikes!

devnull

Took me almost 3 times longer.

TheBandicoot

Took me 5 minutes less than normal to be honest, 0900 39a from Ongar, arrived at Merrion Row just after 0955. No really increased loads and traffic was light.

devnull

Depends where you are coming from, areas along the DART line were quite heavily hit, but from what I heard the West of the city got off lighter.

Murt10

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Took me 5 minutes less than normal to be honest, 0900 39a from Ongar, arrived at Merrion Row just after 0955. No really increased loads and traffic was light.

Wait until the strike happens on a wet school day. Also the colleges are also closed for the summer.

ebbsy

I thought they were getting huge pay cuts, it's only a few % so no sympathy.

Wichita Lineman

Cost me an extra €17 to get to work today despite having an annual rail ticket and I know the refund we can claim from IR wont come near to covering that.

may06

ebbsy wrote: »

I thought they were getting huge pay cuts, it's only a few % so no sympathy.

would you feel the same if you were in the same position?

devnull

If my company was facing insolvency I would accept a pay cut of that percentage yes, especially when management are taking a much higher one and are leading the way.

In the dark days when the economy was worse, I had to give up a lot more than 1.7% but it was worthwhile as it meant I still had a job when some of our rivals went bust.

GLaDOS

Added about 20 minutes to my commute, Bus to Maynooth instead of Train, no real bother. As said though, when Schools and Colleges are back in 2 weeks we'll see a bigger impact.

Infini

devnull wrote: »

If my company was facing insolvency I would accept a pay cut of that percentage yes, especially when management are taking a much higher one and are leading the way.

In the dark days when the economy was worse, I had to give up a lot more than 1.7% but it was worthwhile as it meant I still had a job when some of our rivals went bust.

Problem though is that theres more going on than just the pay this is just the catalyst for all the other issues as well thats been stated in this thread. As stated before though this strike was caused by those with political motiavtions as well as managerial mismanagement.

Remember as well this is an INFRASTRUCTURE that like most other railways in the world isnt meant to make money but get people around and its not being funded properly.

devnull

I agree that the infrastructure hasn't been invested in enough, but that is down to poor decisions to buy large amounts of rolling stock that was not required when the money should have been used on infrastructure.

This is endemic in the state transport companies, there is always a desire to have newer buses, newer trains, newer coaches, even when they are not necessary, rather than invest in other areas.

dvcireland

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Added about 20 minutes to my commute, Bus to Maynooth instead of Train, no real bother. As said though, when Schools and Colleges are back in 2 weeks we'll see a bigger impact.

was making great progress on the 66 this morning out from town, until disaster struck at the far side of Leixlip, when the bus driver could not get the door to shut. Completed the rest of the journey on foot to the far end of the giant semiconductor plant.

Dbu

Put the whole train thingy out to tender, sack the lot of them and blame the union.
Remember the union employees are still getting their 100k plus wages....they dont really care

Hilly Bill

devnull wrote: »

If my company was facing insolvency I would accept a pay cut of that percentage yes, especially when management are taking a much higher one and are leading the way.

In the dark days when the economy was worse, I had to give up a lot more than 1.7% but it was worthwhile as it meant I still had a job when some of our rivals went bust.

What if that company was part owned by the government and they refused to put anymore money into it to keep it running but you are asked to fund it yourself through pay cuts with no guarantee that the company will be in a better financial state at the end of it? What if that company was asking you for a percentage of you wage to plug a hole in the finances yet they have other holes leaking money in other areas and do little to plug them?
What if you was asked for the pay cut but that company was paying for the house of the CEO while hes on more money than the teashop.?
If all the holes in the money pipe was fixed and the only hole was the wage cuts then there wouldnt be a strike on today.

GLaDOS

dvcireland wrote: »

was making great progress on the 66 this morning out from town, until disaster struck at the far side of Leixlip, when the bus driver could not get the door to shut. Completed the rest of the journey on foot to the far end of the giant semiconductor plant.

Got the 67 myself, sounds like I had a lucky escape :pac:

Hilly Bill

Dbu wrote: »

Put the whole train thingy out to tender, sack the lot of them and blame the union.
Remember the union employees are still getting their 100k plus wages....they dont really care

It wont get the trains back running any time soon would it. Its not about the Union employees it about IR employees, they are the ones that voted in favour of a strike.

devnull

Management have taken a cut of 6.1%. It's very hollow to say we're not taking a cut unless everyone else takes a cut, because the other party, can argue the same thing, but the difference is management have took a cut so they have the moral high ground here, if management had not took a cut, I'd have some sympathy.

Of course the lack of subsidy does not help neither does the free travel pass, but as has been said countless times, the drop of passenger numbers by almost 20% has also played a part and in any contract, it's obvious that the less work a contractor does, the less they will get paid.

If the passenger numbers had not dropped I would totally understand your point and again would have sympathy with you and would be backing you all the way, but the fact is they have and that has to be addressed so to blame it all on the government is a red herring.

So with the above two things in mind, I would have no problem taking a 1.6% pay cut on a temporary basis since management have led the way with a pay cut almost 4 times higher, and I would recognise that the lost business has caused a hole in the finances of the company.

end of the road

ebbsy wrote: »

I thought they were getting huge pay cuts, it's only a few % so no sympathy.

small % until they want more, so yes sympathy