Irish Rail strike days

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

If my company was facing insolvency

we don't know irish rail are. if they are what would be causing that is the government refusing to realise you have to pay for the services. no other company would tolerate what irish rail does. continuously cutting subsidy and still continuing to provide the same amount of services all though in fairness with less carriges.

devnull

They don't operate the same amount of services or carry the same amount of passengers that they did previously though, that is the thing.

It was never going to be feasible to be paid the same amount of subsidy despite the fact they were carrying 20% less people.

Lets face it these proposals cost a staff member being paid €50,000 just over €750 a year, and once you take out tax etc it works out around €500 a year, that is what people are striking over!

I think there are private sector workers up and down the country on far lower salaries, wishing the recession caused them to only lose €500 a year from the recession hitting their companies.

end of the road

Dbu wrote: »

Put the whole train thingy out to tender

when the government get a good deal from CIE? no, not happening. a private company wouldn't tolerate the cuts in subsidy that irish rail have dealt with. and tendering wouldn't stop strikes, it certainly hasn't in the UK.

Dbu wrote: »

sack the lot of them

"sack the lot of them" i knew someone would come out with tripe like this. where are you going to magic up replacement train drivers from for example? as someone who doesn't work on the railway i know that you can't just hop in a cab and drive, for god sake even those who are currently driving trains have to have years of experience within the company before they even get a chance of going through the medical and other requirements before they can drive

Dbu wrote: »

blame the union.

for what?

Dbu wrote: »

Remember the union employees are still getting their 100k plus wages.

which employees. apart from management in irish rail no other irish rail staff are on 100k.

Dbu wrote: »

they dont really care

well in fairness i wouldn't care about someone who thinks you can just sack train drivers and magic up people from no where compitent enough to replace them

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

They don't operate the same amount of services or carry the same amount of passengers that they did previously though, that is the thing.

what services have been cut? rosslare waterford was shut to divert money to the WRC which would probably have happened anyway. some services on the limerick junction line were cut and would have been anyway i suspect due to irish rail not wishing to do anything to try save this line from potential closure. from what i can see the rest have the same service level apart from some time table changes.

devnull wrote: »

It was never going to be feasible to be paid the same amount of subsidy despite the fact they were carrying 20% less people.

it has to be. on the majority of routes the service level is still the same.

devnull wrote: »

Lets face it these proposals cost a staff member being paid €50,000 just over €750 a year, and once you take out tax etc it works out around €500 a year, that is what people are striking over!

they aren't striking over 500 euro. as explained its the catlist but thats it. a lot more issues involved in this then a simple pay cut, infact i think the pay cut is really at the bottom of the pile.

devnull wrote: »

I think there are private sector workers up and down the country on far lower salaries, wishing the recession caused them to only lose €500 a year from the recession hitting their companies.

but thats not someone elses problem. irish rail staffs priority is their families, not a private sector worker, the same as a private sector workers priority is their family.

devnull

I doubt Irish Rail staff are so hard up that they cannot afford to lose under €10 a week after tax bearing in mind the average salary within the company.

Irish Rail is not a normal company, it is a public service ran for the benefit of the public, and that must always come first, especially when it is 40% funded by taxpayers money.

Copyerselveson

devnull wrote: »

I doubt Irish Rail staff are so hard up that they cannot afford to lose under €10 a week after tax bearing in mind the average salary within the company.

Irish Rail is not a normal company, it is a public service ran for the benefit of the public, and that must always come first, especially when it is 40% funded by taxpayers money.

Irish Rail may well be a public enterprise but very few private companies would underwrite government policy regarding the free travel scheme the way they have to.

Infini

devnull wrote: »

Management have taken a cut of 6.1%. It's very hollow to say we're not taking a cut unless everyone else takes a cut, because the other party, can argue the same thing, but the difference is management have took a cut so they have the moral high ground here, if management had not took a cut, I'd have some sympathy.

Having the "moral ground" isnt worth much when the foundation its based on is full of holes. Management are on extremely high wages on over €100k or more and a bunch of positions were created there expecially in the last number of years while the front lines have become barren expecially on the vast majority of the DART line. A pay cut for them doesnt affect them anywhere near as much as the lads on the frontline.

devnull wrote: »

Of course the lack of subsidy does not help neither does the free travel pass, but as has been said countless times, the drop of passenger numbers by almost 20% has also played a part and in any contract, it's obvious that the less work a contractor does, the less they will get paid.

The railway was underfunded for years and back in the 80s lads kept the place together with very little for crap wages. It took a train derailment to realise the place needed increased funding and a report from the NTA recently shows its still underfunded to maintain the services. The point about the excess trains bought instead of being invested in the network is a good one but the man responsible Dick Fearns has riden off into the sunset with his gold plated pension. To be honest an outside auditor should be brought in along with someone not tied to the management whos impartial and can go over where all the money is going here.

devnull wrote: »

If the passenger numbers had not dropped I would totally understand your point and again would have sympathy with you and would be backing you all the way, but the fact is they have and that has to be addressed so to blame it all on the government is a red herring.

Passenger numbers are starting to rise and even freight is up but funding isnt being reversed to match only "maintained" at substandard levels. The Evening hearld reports that the subsidy was cut from €203m to €127m that would mean the subsidy was cut 13% more than it should have been only reinforcing the argument on my side. Not to mention that NTA report showing underfunding to the tune of €40m.

devnull wrote: »

So with the above two things in mind, I would have no problem taking a 1.6% pay cut on a temporary basis since management have led the way with a pay cut almost 4 times higher, and I would recognise that the lost business has caused a hole in the finances of the company.

If there was actual substance to the temporary part then it mightve carried more weight but as it stands they reneigned on a previous agreement so their word is worth jack shyte at this time. If you make an agreement it has to be stuck to and if the main shareholder the goverment cuts the subsidy after the agreement is reached its deliberate undermining of a company.

devnull wrote: »

I doubt Irish Rail staff are so hard up that they cannot afford to lose under €10 a week after tax bearing in mind the average salary within the company.

If it was just pay it would be one thing but theres more to this and its been stated countless times.

devnull wrote: »

Irish Rail is not a normal company, it is a public service ran for the benefit of the public, and that must always come first, especially when it is 40% funded by taxpayers money.

Then it needs to be treated as such. Not used as a political football whenever it suits the goverment.

Copyerselveson

And look at the Department's consultation document, it shows the outright hostility the department has for the railway now. All of Irish Rail's cost cutting and efficiencies are worth nothing it would seem.

Yer Aul One

end of the road wrote: »

small % until they want more, so yes sympathy

Absolutely mindless argument, not accepting a reasonable cut now, because it may lead to future cuts...

ebbsy

may06 wrote: »

would you feel the same if you were in the same position?

I have had my wages cut in the last few years. No sympathy.

may06

ebbsy wrote: »

I have had my wages cut in the last few years. No sympathy.

No sympathy? So you were happy to accept pay cuts? What did you do about defending your pay and conditions so? Nothing?

mickydoomsux

ebbsy wrote: »

I have had my wages cut in the last few years. No sympathy.

"My pay was cut so everyone elses should be too and they should just deal with it".

devnull

I accepted a pay cut a few years ago and it actually helped my pay and conditions. Because it meant that I still had a job.

It was better to take a pay cut and have a job 12 months later than not and keep the higher pay but be on the dole in a few months like many of our competitors staff.

Yer Aul One

mickydoomsux wrote: »

"My pay was cut so everyone elses should be too and they should just deal with it".

I question the legitimacy of this quote

mickydoomsux

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I question the legitimacy of this quote

:P

charlietheminxx

I live in north county Dublin and work in south county Dublin... Today has been a nightmare for me. I am waiting for my 4th bus of the day and it's not my last one. It took me an extra hour to get to work this morning. Dublin falls apart without a train service.

end of the road

ebbsy wrote: »

I have had my wages cut in the last few years. No sympathy.

your in the same boat so yes sympathy. so am i

Stabshauptmann

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Yes 7%.

Just because your last claim of 6k per person turned out to be actually closer to 400euro, can you give more details of the 7%

Was there a 7% cut in Irish rail wages, or is this 7% the increase in taxes, water charges etc that everyone has to deal with. Or is it 7% pay rise you were expecting and didnt get?

Stabshauptmann

Infini2 wrote: »

Like I said before if it was a minor pay cut just as it was it might seem petty but its the whole gutting of the place in terms of staffing level on the front line ...along with other factors is whats causing this.

Yes, striking for less than 8euro per week seems incredibly petty.
Crying foul because you did not get a pay rise during a period of mass lay offs and pay cuts of 10% - 20% for the rest of the population seems massively self centred.
And the short term approach of "**** it if the company cant afford it, I wont budge an inch" seems ludicrously short sighted.

punisher5112

Should we cut the welfare?

Why do workers always have to take a hit.

Management in public and private sector are paid way too much.

Thought we were meant to be out of the recesion and the there were td's calling for wage increases and a help with tax for the hard working people of this small island.

mickydoomsux

punisher5112 wrote: »

Should we cut the welfare?

Why do workers always have to take a hit.

Management in public and private sector are paid way too much.

Thought we were meant to be out of the recesion and the there were td's calling for wage increases and a help with tax for the hard working people of this small island.

Public transport workers have always been treated with disdain in Ireland.

Both the government and the company are banking on this factor in the current set of strikes.

punisher5112

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Public transport workers have always been treated with disdain in Ireland.

Both the government and the company are banking on this factor in the current set of strikes.

Well when I started our weekly wage was okay nothing crazy but now I struggle to actually have any type of life.

Tax, PRSI, usc, levies, and whatever else they will think up next.

I like most others have many bills to pay and rent and cost of living such as food, petrol/diesel,.

Grandeeod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Public transport workers have always been treated with disdain in Ireland.

Both the government and the company are banking on this factor in the current set of strikes.

Bull****! Learn your history. Public transport workers USED to be treated with disdain by Governments, until the creation of CIE. For years you have existed within a bubble, protected by the state. The sense of entitlement via subsidies is overwhelming. Now its only parts of the public that look upon you that way. My experiences of CIE since childhood to adulthood have been poor. I'm sure many others are the same. Its a disaster of a company right across the board, with a woeful public image going back years. Its a damaged and dysfunctional brand. You only look at it from your perspective and forget the role that staff have played in making it a dysfunctional brand.

Ask yourself why the luas is running today and why many are thankful it was taken away from CIE in the development stages. The relationship between CIE and the shareholder has been a toxic relationship from day one and this has fed itself down to the likes of you. The entire entity is poison and has historically made Irish public transport a joke. Its not about the customer, its about the staff Vs management and then Vs the Government with the service coming last.

I condemn the CIE group, its employees, mangement and the successive transport ministers for being the greatest set of idiots ever to represent any kind of public transport provision. CIE is a joke and will always be a joke until someone, somewhere decides to annialate it and start again without the baggage and in the real world.

Hilly Bill

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Just because your last claim of 6k per person turned out to be actually closer to 400euro, can you give more details of the 7%

Was there a 7% cut in Irish rail wages, or is this 7% the increase in taxes, water charges etc that everyone has to deal with. Or is it 7% pay rise you were expecting and didnt get?

Already answered in thread.

Hilly Bill

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Yes, striking for less than 8euro per week seems incredibly petty.
Crying foul because you did not get a pay rise during a period of mass lay offs and pay cuts of 10% - 20% for the rest of the population seems massively self centred.
And the short term approach of "**** it if the company cant afford it, I wont budge an inch" seems ludicrously short sighted.

Less than €8 a week? Come back when you understand exactly whats happening.

mickydoomsux

Grandeeod wrote: »

Bull****! Learn your history. Public transport workers USED to be treated with disdain by Governments, until the creation of CIE. For years you have existed within a bubble, protected by the state. The sense of entitlement via subsidies is overwhelming. Now its only parts of the public that look upon you that way. My experiences of CIE since childhood to adulthood have been poor. I'm sure many others are the same. Its a disaster of a company right across the board, with a woeful public image going back years. Its a damaged and dysfunctional brand. You only look at it from your perspective and forget the role that staff have played in making it a dysfunctional brand.

Ask yourself why the luas is running today and why many are thankful it was taken away from CIE in the development stages. The relationship between CIE and the shareholder has been a toxic relationship from day one and this has fed itself down to the likes of you. The entire entity is poison and has historically made Irish public transport a joke. Its not about the customer, its about the staff Vs management and then Vs the Government with the service coming last.

I condemn the CIE group, its employees, mangement and the successive transport ministers for being the greatest set of idiots ever to represent any kind of public transport provision. CIE is a joke and will always be a joke until someone, somewhere decides to annialate it and start again without the baggage and in the real world.

You're a little bit all over the place there and you contradict your own point a few times.

Congrats on being angry about a thing though i guess.

Copyerselveson

Grandeeod wrote: »

I condemn the CIE group, its employees, mangement and the successive transport ministers for being the greatest set of idiots ever to represent any kind of public transport provision. CIE is a joke and will always be a joke until someone, somewhere decides to annialate it and start again without the baggage and in the real world.

You are condemning all those people, but what qualifies you to say all that?

Infini

Sounds like a case of "haters gonna hate" not to mention pointless ranting.

Grandeeod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You're a little bit all over the place there and you contradict your own point a few times.

Congrats on being angry about a thing though i guess.

Explain.

Grandeeod

Copyerselveson wrote: »

You are condemning all those people, but what qualifies you to say all that?

Experience, history, facts, failure. Do you really need the history of the CIE group explained to you?