Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

WTF is a kipping pull up??

  • 18-08-2014 02:30AM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Im confused as to what a kipping pull up is? or what it s purpose is? to me it just seems like the correct way to do an incorrect pull up lol

    I was actually thinking of giving crossfit a go just for a change, but after watching a few vids... im not exactly sold... lol


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,294 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Crossfit defines the pull up is defined as arms fully extended at the bottom, chin breaks above the bar at the top. Under that definition, kipping is the fastest, most efficient way to do a pull up. Trying to use a no kipping definition would be a nightmare in max speed and rep conditions. Kipping makes perfect sense for their purposes. They are interested in total power/work, not form.

    It's an entirely different movement to a strict pull-up. Not sure why people struggle to separate the two.
    It's like the difference between a strict press and a jerk. Nobody ever accuses weight lifters of cheating though.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Mellor wrote: »
    Crossfit defines the pull up is defined as arms fully extended at the bottom, chin breaks above the bar at the top. Under that definition, kipping is the fastest, most efficient way to do a pull up. Trying to use a no kipping definition would be a nightmare in max speed and rep conditions. Kipping makes perfect sense for their purposes. They are interested in total power/work, not form.

    It's an entirely different movement to a strict pull-up. Not sure why people struggle to separate the two.
    It's like the difference between a strict press and a jerk. Nobody ever accuses weight lifters of cheating though.

    Isnt they re purpose to get fit and strong? isnt the kipping pull up ( if you could even call it a pull up) the least effective of all pull ups for those aims?

    From what i can see from kipping it must do terrible things to the persons shoulders...

    But what exactly is the goal of the Kipping pull up whats the point of it? what makes it better than a proper pull up?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Their purpose is to race each other in terms of exertion.

    Crossfit is a different beast, and if you don't over-do it has similar levels of injury risk as many other sports, lower than contact sports, but higher than most form based workouts.

    Crossfit is a sport. It's a mutant in that it turns individual exercises that you would do in a workout into competition categories.
    As Mellor has pointed out above, its not about form, in the same way that it doesn't matter exactly how you do the exercise, but whoever is doing it most efficiently will win, and from that point on, competitors will mimic.

    For some categories, the most efficient way will have a higher risk of injury than more controlled ways. That is an inherent risk in the nature of all "fastest", "heaviest" "strongest" sports, its down to the competitor to manage both their commitment to it, and their know their own physical capacity, otherwise they're going to mess themselves up.
    Blaming crossfit doesn't really cut it, as there are plenty of champion competitors out there that can strike the balance without destroying themselves in the process.

    It isn't a substitute for a gym workout, its a sport in itself, and requires that level of dedication. To do it casually is to play with fire, as you will be missing components of strength or endurance that are necessary to do it effectively.

    That is why I don't and probably won't ever take it up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,294 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Isnt they re purpose to get fit and strong?
    No it isn't. Not even remotely the purpose tbh.
    To get stronger, they would do dedicated strength work. Like strict pull ups.
    But what exactly is the goal of the Kipping pull up whats the point of it? what makes it better than a proper pull up?
    I explained above.
    Performance in crossfit is ranked by speed and/or volume (reps). Kipping is better than strict pull ups, in this regard, because it's faster and more efficient.
    It's a pretty simple idea


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Their purpose is to race each other in terms of exertion.

    Crossfit is a different beast, and if you don't over-do it has similar levels of injury risk as many other sports, lower than contact sports, but higher than most form based workouts.

    Crossfit is a sport. It's a mutant in that it turns individual exercises that you would do in a workout into competition categories.
    As Mellor has pointed out above, its not about form, in the same way that it doesn't matter exactly how you do the exercise, but whoever is doing it most efficiently will win, and from that point on, competitors will mimic.

    For some categories, the most efficient way will have a higher risk of injury than more controlled ways. That is an inherent risk in the nature of all "fastest", "heaviest" "strongest" sports, its down to the competitor to manage both their commitment to it, and their know their own physical capacity, otherwise they're going to mess themselves up.
    Blaming crossfit doesn't really cut it, as there are plenty of champion competitors out there that can strike the balance without destroying themselves in the process.

    It isn't a substitute for a gym workout, its a sport in itself, and requires that level of dedication. To do it casually is to play with fire, as you will be missing components of strength or endurance that are necessary to do it effectively.

    That is why I don't and probably won't ever take it up.


    Oh right i get yeah now! so the only real goal of crossfit is to be a good crossfitter, i didnt think it was an actual sport, like boxing or soccer, i thought it was just another way of working out,

    I was wondering looking at the videos, and thinking to myself wow some of this is just plain stupid, in terms of trying to get stronger and what not.

    But it makes more sense when you put it like that


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Mellor wrote: »
    No it isn't. Not even remotely the purpose tbh.
    To get stronger, they would do dedicated strength work. Like strict pull ups.


    I explained above.
    Performance in crossfit is ranked by speed and/or volume (reps). Kipping is better than strict pull ups, in this regard, because it's faster and more efficient.
    It's a pretty simple idea

    Yeah i didnt get the idea of who can kip the most competitions i was looking at it more as a workout it didnt really look the most effective way to train.

    But if thats the goal of crossfit then it makes sense


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,294 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    To do it casually is to play with fire, as you will be missing components of strength or endurance that are necessary to do it effectively.
    I'd disagree that you have to be missing components in your training. . There's no reason why a good CF box can't tailor programming to cover necessary areas. I don't do Crossfit either btw, but I'm seen soom programming from a good CF box. I'm under no illusion that this will happen everywhere though.
    evo2000 wrote: »
    Yeah i didnt get the idea of who can kip the most competitions i was looking at it more as a workout it didnt really look the most effective way to train.

    But if thats the goal of crossfit then it makes sense
    As an example, here's wokout 7 of the regionals this year.
    The goal is to compete the below as fast as possible.
    For time:
    64 pull-ups
    8 overhead squats, 92.5kg

    Time cap: 6 minutes


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Mellor wrote: »
    I'd disagree that you have to be missing components in your training. . There's no reason why a good CF box can't tailor programming to cover necessary areas. I don't do Crossfit either btw, but I'm seen soom programming from a good CF box. I'm under no illusion that this will happen everywhere though.


    As an example, here's wokout 7 of the regionals this year.
    The goal is to compete the below as fast as possible.

    Are those real pull ups tho?

    Is there like different moduels, like running times and what not aswell?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,294 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Are those real pull ups tho?
    Any kind of pull ups you like. If you wanted to do strict pull ups, there's nothing stopping you.

    The movement standard covers all types;
    Dead hang, kipping or butterfly pull-ups are allowed, as long as all the requirements are met. The arms must be fully extended at the bottom. At the top, the chin must break the horizontal plane of the bar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Have a look at FRAN.
    even better have a go.

    When you are finished puking, ask yourself the question, what makes a "real" pull up ?

    I'd define it as pulling yourself up. (No pun, don't make it dirty)

    Its not about only using certain muscle groups, which your purist bodybuilder will focus on. Its about pulling.....yourself......up.......fast.

    If kipping does it faster then you'll be kipping.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Mellor wrote: »
    Any kind of pull ups you like. If you wanted to do strict pull ups, there's nothing stopping you.

    The movement standard covers all types;

    Id bet the house most people dont do strict with the option of kipping tho,

    62 strict pull ups would be fair going kipping not so much imo


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Have a look at FRAN.
    even better have a go.

    When you are finished puking, ask yourself the question, what makes a "real" pull up ?

    I'd define it as pulling yourself up. (No pun, don't make it dirty)

    Its not about only using certain muscle groups, which your purist bodybuilder will focus on. Its about pulling.....yourself......up.......fast.

    If kipping does it faster then you'll be kipping.

    Id be far from puking my guts up lol, the video i watched of Fran is a lad doing overhead squats and kips yeah?

    I do boxing and that so circuit training is nothing new to me, My workouts arent purist bodybuilding there made up of compound movements and based on building functional strength, I do alot of weighted dips and wide grip weighted pull ups along with alot of other grips so kips arent all that challenging to me,

    Im not trying to diss crossfit i was thinking of giving it a go, but from what ive seen it doesnt seem to be the most effective way to train imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,294 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Id bet the house most people dont do strict with the option of kipping tho,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieK7b4KLL4#t=31


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Have a look at FRAN.
    even better have a go.

    When you are finished puking, ask yourself the question, what makes a "real" pull up ?

    I'd define it as pulling yourself up. (No pun, don't make it dirty)

    Its not about only using certain muscle groups, which your purist bodybuilder will focus on. Its about pulling.....yourself......up.......fast.

    If kipping does it faster then you'll be kipping.

    Kipping is not a real pull up, go do 62 strict form pull ups and do 62 kipping and tell me which is harder to do, the exercises speak for themselves,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,752 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    evo2000 wrote: »
    Kipping is not a real pull up, go do 62 strict form pull ups and do 62 kipping and tell me which is harder to do, the exercises speak for themselves,

    You're missing the point.

    No one has said it is a strict pull up.

    One is an apple, the other is an orange.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Dem Lolz.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,548 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I am always amused by how much the kipping pull-up can rustle jimmies across the Internet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    I've nout against kipping other than I am sh1t at it but I've always wondered about shoulder issues in the kipping movement.
    It seems to be an extreme position for the shoulder joint to be placed in at the top of the movement with the chest forced out and high percentage of bodyweight acting against the joint.

    OpenShouldersKip.jpg

    Can't imagine putting that level of stress against the knee/arm/elbow joints during exercise.
    I'm no comparative biologist but you'd never catch any of our simian friends in a similar forced position :)

    Any trained kinesiologists on boards for some insight?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭top madra


    Lol no thanks Jeff.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭dylbert


    Zamboni wrote: »
    I've nout against kipping other than I am sh1t at it but I've always wondered about shoulder issues in the kipping movement.
    It seems to be an extreme position for the shoulder joint to be placed in at the top of the movement with the chest forced out and high percentage of bodyweight acting against the joint.

    OpenShouldersKip.jpg

    Can't imagine putting that level of stress against the knee/arm/elbow joints during exercise.
    I'm no comparative biologist but you'd never catch any of our simian friends in a similar forced position :)

    Any trained kinesiologists on boards for some insight?

    That photo looks a bit extreme, a proper kip is more hips and less swinging.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    top madra wrote: »
    Lol no thanks Jeff.



    Total count: Zero.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    I don't have vids to back my point up but I would imagine that the high level crossfit athletes who are very efficient at kipping pullups can also do a high number of strict pullups and heavy weighted pullups so the risk to the shoulder joint isn't as much as it appears to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,388 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Mellor wrote: »
    Not sure why people struggle to separate the two
    Often the kipping bit is never mentioned, thats where I see a lot of annoyance stemming from. So people might be a a very general forum with few crossfit guys. You will see a guy saying he did 40 pullups and people in disbelief and are then annoyed he did not reveal he was kipping from the start.

    So I think people are annoyed since they think people are
    A- exagerrating, bragging and purposely not saying they are kipping, or they might call it "cheating" similar to someone cheating doing say bicep curls, someone might purposely and knowingly "cheat" on bicep curls to get a good negative rep. I have seen rules for chinup contests and kipping is clearly spelt out as dissallowed.

    B- trying to push/impose a new definition for the word which is widely recognised as being known as non-kipping. Some seem to be feigning ignorance about the fact that if people hear pullup on its own that they presume there is no kipping.

    Mellor wrote: »
    It's like the difference between a strict press and a jerk. Nobody ever accuses weight lifters of cheating though.
    If crossfitters came up with a new definition of racewalking which allowed both feet to be off the ground at the same time then I would expect similar annoyance if they went onto athletic sites and started saying they could racewalk 5 miles in X minutes. -and had to be quizzed over and over until it was revealed they not sticking to the long established & recognised meaning.

    Because it is getting used more and more people are giving into it and now instead of saying "pullup" they are saying "strict pullup", while I imagine they would have preferred to be able to still call it simply "pullup" and let the crossfitters say "kipping pullup".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,294 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    rubadub wrote: »
    Often the kipping bit is never mentioned, thats where I see a lot of annoyance stemming from. So people might be a a very general forum with few crossfit guys. You will see a guy saying he did 40 pullups and people in disbelief and are then annoyed he did not reveal he was kipping from the start.
    I'd say that represents a tiny amount of the time. The overwhelming majority of the time, it's somebody else bringing it up to have a to at crossfit.
    So I think people are annoyed since they think people are
    A- exagerrating, bragging and purposely not saying they are kipping, or they might call it "cheating" similar to someone cheating doing say bicep curls, someone might purposely and knowingly "cheat" on bicep curls to get a good negative rep. I have seen rules for chinup contests and kipping is clearly spelt out as dissallowed.

    B- trying to push/impose a new definition for the word which is widely recognised as being known as non-kipping. Some seem to be feigning ignorance about the fact that if people hear pullup on its own that they presume there is no kipping.
    Getting annoyed at how somebody else does an exercise is utterly retarded. Especially when their is very logically reason for their method.
    Trying to police zero kipping the CF games regionals would be a nightmare.
    If crossfitters came up with a new definition of racewalking which allowed both feet to be off the ground at the same time then I would expect similar annoyance if they went onto athletic sites and started saying they could racewalk 5 miles in X minutes. -and had to be quizzed over and over until it was revealed they not sticking to the long established & recognised meaning.

    Because it is getting used more and more people are giving into it and now instead of saying "pullup" they are saying "strict pullup", while I imagine they would have preferred to be able to still call it simply "pullup" and let the crossfitters say "kipping pullup".

    If crossfitters were routinely going into a website for pull-ups and bragging then the above would make sense. But they aren't, the reality is it's simply used as an excuse to have a go the majority of the time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I am always amused by how much the kipping pull-up can rustle jimmies across the Internet

    Cause they re a joke lol Everyone but these crossfit elitists can see it,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Can't imagine putting that level of stress against the knee/arm/elbow joints during exercise.

    Its not like you could possibly place more stress on those joints and be fine right?



    I think most people don't actually have the shoulder flexibility for kipping, you need a pretty high level of shoulder rotation. Crossfit relies a lot on that flexibility by placing so much emphasis on over-head squats and snatches. Plus your technique needs to be consistent and perfect on the kip itself, which goes downhill on 50 of anything.

    On a side note, I've been working lots on my pull ups recently and the number of people who do normal pull up wrong is surprising. Is it a pull up or reverse bench they are doing? Head behind the arms, core loose, chin pointing up, swinging into their chest, shoulders up and pulling, not active and centered.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    rubadub wrote: »
    Often the kipping bit is never mentioned, thats where I see a lot of annoyance stemming from. So people might be a a very general forum with few crossfit guys. You will see a guy saying he did 40 pullups and people in disbelief and are then annoyed he did not reveal he was kipping from the start.

    So I think people are annoyed since they think people are
    A- exagerrating, bragging and purposely not saying they are kipping, or they might call it "cheating" similar to someone cheating doing say bicep curls, someone might purposely and knowingly "cheat" on bicep curls to get a good negative rep. I have seen rules for chinup contests and kipping is clearly spelt out as dissallowed.

    B- trying to push/impose a new definition for the word which is widely recognised as being known as non-kipping. Some seem to be feigning ignorance about the fact that if people hear pullup on its own that they presume there is no kipping.


    If crossfitters came up with a new definition of racewalking which allowed both feet to be off the ground at the same time then I would expect similar annoyance if they went onto athletic sites and started saying they could racewalk 5 miles in X minutes. -and had to be quizzed over and over until it was revealed they not sticking to the long established & recognised meaning.

    Because it is getting used more and more people are giving into it and now instead of saying "pullup" they are saying "strict pullup", while I imagine they would have preferred to be able to still call it simply "pullup" and let the crossfitters say "kipping pullup".

    Yeah i did 75 pull ups you ll read, then you see these so called pull ups "kipping" aka "bull****"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKp7fBtj81c

    Kipping is the way forward !


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭evo2000


    Mellor wrote: »
    I'd say that represents a tiny amount of the time. The overwhelming majority of the time, it's somebody else bringing it up to have a to at crossfit.


    Getting annoyed at how somebody else does an exercise is utterly retarded. Especially when their is very logically reason for their method.
    Trying to police zero kipping the CF games regionals would be a nightmare.



    If crossfitters were routinely going into a website for pull-ups and bragging then the above would make sense. But they aren't, the reality is it's simply used as an excuse to have a go the majority of the time.

    I wouldnt be a nightmare, it d be simple anything but a proper pull up isnt counted im sure they d get the idea quick


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Good thing nobody mentioned kipping dips.....


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement