Mellor wrote: » Crossfit defines the pull up is defined as arms fully extended at the bottom, chin breaks above the bar at the top. Under that definition, kipping is the fastest, most efficient way to do a pull up. Trying to use a no kipping definition would be a nightmare in max speed and rep conditions. Kipping makes perfect sense for their purposes. They are interested in total power/work, not form. It's an entirely different movement to a strict pull-up. Not sure why people struggle to separate the two. It's like the difference between a strict press and a jerk. Nobody ever accuses weight lifters of cheating though.
evo2000 wrote: » Isnt they re purpose to get fit and strong?
But what exactly is the goal of the Kipping pull up whats the point of it? what makes it better than a proper pull up?
AngryHippie wrote: » Their purpose is to race each other in terms of exertion. Crossfit is a different beast, and if you don't over-do it has similar levels of injury risk as many other sports, lower than contact sports, but higher than most form based workouts. Crossfit is a sport. It's a mutant in that it turns individual exercises that you would do in a workout into competition categories. As Mellor has pointed out above, its not about form, in the same way that it doesn't matter exactly how you do the exercise, but whoever is doing it most efficiently will win, and from that point on, competitors will mimic. For some categories, the most efficient way will have a higher risk of injury than more controlled ways. That is an inherent risk in the nature of all "fastest", "heaviest" "strongest" sports, its down to the competitor to manage both their commitment to it, and their know their own physical capacity, otherwise they're going to mess themselves up. Blaming crossfit doesn't really cut it, as there are plenty of champion competitors out there that can strike the balance without destroying themselves in the process. It isn't a substitute for a gym workout, its a sport in itself, and requires that level of dedication. To do it casually is to play with fire, as you will be missing components of strength or endurance that are necessary to do it effectively. That is why I don't and probably won't ever take it up.
Mellor wrote: » No it isn't. Not even remotely the purpose tbh. To get stronger, they would do dedicated strength work. Like strict pull ups. I explained above. Performance in crossfit is ranked by speed and/or volume (reps). Kipping is better than strict pull ups, in this regard, because it's faster and more efficient. It's a pretty simple idea
AngryHippie wrote: » To do it casually is to play with fire, as you will be missing components of strength or endurance that are necessary to do it effectively.
evo2000 wrote: » Yeah i didnt get the idea of who can kip the most competitions i was looking at it more as a workout it didnt really look the most effective way to train. But if thats the goal of crossfit then it makes sense
For time: 64 pull-ups 8 overhead squats, 92.5kg Time cap: 6 minutes
Mellor wrote: » I'd disagree that you have to be missing components in your training. . There's no reason why a good CF box can't tailor programming to cover necessary areas. I don't do Crossfit either btw, but I'm seen soom programming from a good CF box. I'm under no illusion that this will happen everywhere though. As an example, here's wokout 7 of the regionals this year. The goal is to compete the below as fast as possible.
evo2000 wrote: » Are those real pull ups tho?
Dead hang, kipping or butterfly pull-ups are allowed, as long as all the requirements are met. The arms must be fully extended at the bottom. At the top, the chin must break the horizontal plane of the bar.
Mellor wrote: » Any kind of pull ups you like. If you wanted to do strict pull ups, there's nothing stopping you. The movement standard covers all types;
AngryHippie wrote: » Have a look at FRAN. even better have a go. When you are finished puking, ask yourself the question, what makes a "real" pull up ? I'd define it as pulling yourself up. (No pun, don't make it dirty) Its not about only using certain muscle groups, which your purist bodybuilder will focus on. Its about pulling.....yourself......up.......fast. If kipping does it faster then you'll be kipping.
evo2000 wrote: » Id bet the house most people dont do strict with the option of kipping tho,
evo2000 wrote: » Kipping is not a real pull up, go do 62 strict form pull ups and do 62 kipping and tell me which is harder to do, the exercises speak for themselves,
Zamboni wrote: » I've nout against kipping other than I am sh1t at it but I've always wondered about shoulder issues in the kipping movement. It seems to be an extreme position for the shoulder joint to be placed in at the top of the movement with the chest forced out and high percentage of bodyweight acting against the joint. Can't imagine putting that level of stress against the knee/arm/elbow joints during exercise. I'm no comparative biologist but you'd never catch any of our simian friends in a similar forced position Any trained kinesiologists on boards for some insight?
top madra wrote: » Lol no thanks Jeff.
Mellor wrote: » Not sure why people struggle to separate the two
Mellor wrote: » It's like the difference between a strict press and a jerk. Nobody ever accuses weight lifters of cheating though.
rubadub wrote: » Often the kipping bit is never mentioned, thats where I see a lot of annoyance stemming from. So people might be a a very general forum with few crossfit guys. You will see a guy saying he did 40 pullups and people in disbelief and are then annoyed he did not reveal he was kipping from the start.
So I think people are annoyed since they think people are A- exagerrating, bragging and purposely not saying they are kipping, or they might call it "cheating" similar to someone cheating doing say bicep curls, someone might purposely and knowingly "cheat" on bicep curls to get a good negative rep. I have seen rules for chinup contests and kipping is clearly spelt out as dissallowed. B- trying to push/impose a new definition for the word which is widely recognised as being known as non-kipping. Some seem to be feigning ignorance about the fact that if people hear pullup on its own that they presume there is no kipping.
If crossfitters came up with a new definition of racewalking which allowed both feet to be off the ground at the same time then I would expect similar annoyance if they went onto athletic sites and started saying they could racewalk 5 miles in X minutes. -and had to be quizzed over and over until it was revealed they not sticking to the long established & recognised meaning. Because it is getting used more and more people are giving into it and now instead of saying "pullup" they are saying "strict pullup", while I imagine they would have preferred to be able to still call it simply "pullup" and let the crossfitters say "kipping pullup".
LuckyLloyd wrote: » I am always amused by how much the kipping pull-up can rustle jimmies across the Internet
Zamboni wrote: » Can't imagine putting that level of stress against the knee/arm/elbow joints during exercise.
rubadub wrote: » Often the kipping bit is never mentioned, thats where I see a lot of annoyance stemming from. So people might be a a very general forum with few crossfit guys. You will see a guy saying he did 40 pullups and people in disbelief and are then annoyed he did not reveal he was kipping from the start. So I think people are annoyed since they think people are A- exagerrating, bragging and purposely not saying they are kipping, or they might call it "cheating" similar to someone cheating doing say bicep curls, someone might purposely and knowingly "cheat" on bicep curls to get a good negative rep. I have seen rules for chinup contests and kipping is clearly spelt out as dissallowed. B- trying to push/impose a new definition for the word which is widely recognised as being known as non-kipping. Some seem to be feigning ignorance about the fact that if people hear pullup on its own that they presume there is no kipping. If crossfitters came up with a new definition of racewalking which allowed both feet to be off the ground at the same time then I would expect similar annoyance if they went onto athletic sites and started saying they could racewalk 5 miles in X minutes. -and had to be quizzed over and over until it was revealed they not sticking to the long established & recognised meaning. Because it is getting used more and more people are giving into it and now instead of saying "pullup" they are saying "strict pullup", while I imagine they would have preferred to be able to still call it simply "pullup" and let the crossfitters say "kipping pullup".
Mellor wrote: » I'd say that represents a tiny amount of the time. The overwhelming majority of the time, it's somebody else bringing it up to have a to at crossfit. Getting annoyed at how somebody else does an exercise is utterly retarded. Especially when their is very logically reason for their method. Trying to police zero kipping the CF games regionals would be a nightmare. If crossfitters were routinely going into a website for pull-ups and bragging then the above would make sense. But they aren't, the reality is it's simply used as an excuse to have a go the majority of the time.
