WTF is a kipping pull up??

The crossfit gym I was a member of wouldn't allow kipping pull ups until you had perfect strict form, and even at that, they were only allowed at certain times.

Mellor

evo2000 wrote: »

I wouldnt be a nightmare, it d be simple anything but a proper pull up isnt counted im sure they d get the idea quick

Great in theory but I can't see judging being standardised. One person hs zero tolerance for any left movement, one person lets minor movement to pass, etc.

Still don't understand why it bothers you.
How many pull ups can you do?

evo2000

Mellor wrote: »

Great in theory but I can't see judging being standardised. One person hs zero tolerance for any left movement, one person lets minor movement to pass, etc.

Still don't understand why it bothers you.
How many pull ups can you do?

People claiming to do pull ups that arent pull ups is abit annoying to start, but the original reason it bothered me was i was actually thinking about joining crossfit till i watched a few vids.

letting abit go is grand once they re not flapping on the bar and trying to call it a pull up very easy to do.

Alf Veedersane

evo2000 wrote: »

People claiming to do pull ups that arent pull ups is abit annoying to start, but the original reason it bothered me was i was actually thinking about joining crossfit till i watched a few vids.

letting abit go is grand once they re not flapping on the bar and trying to call it a pull up very easy to do.

If you want to join Crossfit, then join and do strict pull ups.

They're going to make you do a kipping pull up if you want to do a strict pull up.

evo2000

Deleted User wrote: »

The crossfit gym I was a member of wouldn't allow kipping pull ups until you had perfect strict form, and even at that, they were only allowed at certain times.

Even then why would you even do a kipping pull up over a strict pull up?? its like ok now i can do a proper pull im gonna do these stupid ones, i just dont see the logic in it.

Alot of debate could be avoided if they were accurately named like "Not Pull Up" or "Bar Flapping" or something along the lines

Mellor

evo2000 wrote: »

Even then why would you even do a kipping pull up over a strict pull up?? its like ok now i can do a proper pull im gonna do these stupid ones, i just dont see the logic in it.

It's already been explained a few times. I've no idea why you are struggling to understand. It's pretty simple.

Alf Veedersane

evo2000 wrote: »

Alot of debate could be avoided if they were accurately named like "Not Pull Up" or "Bar Flapping" or something along the lines

You said you're a boxer....why is shadow boxing called 'shadow boxing' and not 'not actually boxing but throwing punches at thin air'?

evo2000

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You said you're a boxer....why is shadow boxing called 'shadow boxing' and not 'not actually boxing but throwing punches at thin air'?

You re not your actually trying to ko you re shadow... we do kip boxing aswell where the goal is to look like an absolute spastic then go and brag about how good you are at "boxing"

evo2000

Mellor wrote: »

It's already been explained a few times. I've no idea why you are struggling to understand. It's pretty simple.

Its not really, i dont understand why someone fully knowing a proper pull up is better would go along and do something that is worse.

I dont know why on these cross fit sites, Fran is described as having to do pull ups. "kipping"

Why doesnt crossfit get rid of kipping pull ups infavor of proper ones altogether?

Transform

evo2000 wrote: »

People claiming to do pull ups that arent pull ups is abit annoying to start, but the original reason it bothered me was i was actually thinking about joining crossfit till i watched a few vids.

letting abit go is grand once they re not flapping on the bar and trying to call it a pull up very easy to do.

because thats the best way of going about checking something out, watching vids of random crossfit stuff.

most crossfit gyms will do free intros

Alf Veedersane

evo2000 wrote: »

You re not your actually trying to ko you re shadow... we do kip boxing aswell where the goal is to look like an absolute spastic then go and brag about how good you are at "boxing"

Yeah. You clearly don't want to make a show of yourself.

evo2000

Transform wrote: »

because thats the best way of going about checking something out, watching vids of random crossfit stuff.

most crossfit gyms will do free intros

Watching competitions and the likes.

Transform

evo2000 wrote: »

Watching competitions and the likes.

the only way of knowing is actually doing it for a while, if you dont like it then thats cool also,

its not for everyone and i understand that.

evo2000

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yeah. You clearly don't want to make a show of yourself.

Stupid question gets a stupid answer. Comparing shadow boxing to kipping pullups oh dear... lol

Hanley

Caliden wrote: »

Total count: Zero.

Total squats, bench presses, deadlifts, reverse lunges, behind the neck push presses: Zero.

Total kipping pull ups: 100+.

dylbert

Hanley wrote: »

Total squats, bench presses, deadlifts, reverse lunges, behind the neck push presses: Zero.

Total kipping pull ups: 100+.

And you couldn't post a better video to demonstrait a perfect kipping pull-up, spealler has them mastered.

JJayoo

I would imagine kipping is good for grip strength

John Mongo

I'd be one of the first people to have a joke about kipping pull ups as I've a few mates who train in Crossfit gyms, "They're not real pull ups" and so on. It's a crazy looking movement and you'll usually get your mates wound up about them.

Realistically though, I've seen a few examples of Crossfit gyms being quite specific in using Strict Pull Ups for strength work and Kipping Pull Ups when volume is the aim. Even in an earlier post with the rules from a CF Games workout, they go as far as to name different pull up variations as being fair game for the event.

So 9 times out of 10 people differentiate between the two movements when they do them, as they both are used for two different aims. What's the big deal?

Is a Front Squat not a real squat because the bar isn't on your back? A Push Press not a real press since it's not strict? Where does the line get drawn between what's considered a real movement and what isn't?

Hanley

^^ Push Press -v- Strict Press is actually a fantastic way of illustrating similar movements with different purposes. Legend.

evo2000

John Mongo wrote: »

I'd be one of the first people to have a joke about kipping pull ups as I've a few mates who train in Crossfit gyms, "They're not real pull ups" and so on. It's a crazy looking movement and you'll usually get your mates wound up about them.

Realistically though, I've seen a few examples of Crossfit gyms being quite specific in using Strict Pull Ups for strength work and Kipping Pull Ups when volume is the aim. Even in an earlier post with the rules from a CF Games workout, they go as far as to name different pull up variations as being fair game for the event.

So 9 times out of 10 people differentiate between the two movements when they do them, as they both are used for two different aims. What's the big deal?

Is a Front Squat not a real squat because the bar isn't on your back? A Push Press not a real press since it's not strict? Where does the line get drawn between what's considered a real movement and what isn't?

Id weight em up by which is the most effective of the two, which benefits the person the most clearly strict is far better.

Ill put it this way if you d a choice between doing strict pull ups vs kips which would you do?

LuckyLloyd

evo2000 wrote: »

Id weight em up by which is the most effective of the two, which benefits the person the most clearly strict is far better.

Ill put it this way if you d a choice between doing strict pull ups vs kips which would you do?

Do you strict Press or Push Press? Why?

John Mongo

evo2000 wrote: »

Id weight em up by which is the most effective of the two, which benefits the person the most clearly strict is far better.

Ill put it this way if you d a choice between doing strict pull ups vs kips which would you do?

What's the aim of the workout I'm about to do?

That kind of question doesn't work as you're talking about two different movements with two different aims.

Strength work? Strict.
Something like Fran, with a high volume of Pull Ups? If you wish to move through the workout at a quick pace, while moving as efficiently as possible, you kip.

The vast, vast majority of Crossfitter's would never argue differently. Two different movements, two different aims. Simples.

Hanley

evo2000 wrote: »

Id weight em up by which is the most effective of the two, which benefits the person the most clearly strict is far better.

Ill put it this way if you d a choice between doing strict pull ups vs kips which would you do?

If you could only wear a t-shirt or boxers (no pants), which would you wear, and why?

If I told you I was going to cut off either your hands or your feet tomorrow, which would you choose?

If you could only ever have sex with a manky hole in a tree, or an apple pie, which would you choose?

You're strawmanning the topic.

evo2000

John Mongo wrote: »

What's the aim of the workout I'm about to do?

That kind of question doesn't work as you're talking about two different movements with two different aims.

Strength work? Strict.
Something like Fran, with a high volume of Pull Ups? If you wish to move through the workout at a quick pace, while moving as efficiently as possible, you kip.

The vast, vast majority of Crossfitter's would never argue differently. Two different movements, two different aims. Simples.

But you arent doing a high volume of pull ups in fran kips are not and never will be a pull up, i question crossfit in general whether its the most effective form of training, or even safe for that matter.

Traditional circuit training imo is far safer and better.

The idea of doing olympic style lifts to infinite reps just seems stupid to me they werent designed for that,

But this is just my opinion!

evo2000

Hanley wrote: »

If you could only wear a t-shirt or boxers (no pants), which would you wear, and why?

If I told you I was going to cut off either your hands or your feet tomorrow, which would you choose?

If you could only ever have sex with a manky hole in a tree, or an apple pie, which would you choose?

You're strawmanning the topic.

Its a legitimate question, which would you choose? strict or kipping if you d only a set amount time to work out , would you go with kips or strict ?

evo2000

Id say if hanley said the sky was pink Bluewolf would like it, some amount of sheep on here lol

John Mongo

evo2000 wrote: »

But you arent doing a high volume of pull ups in fran kips are not and never will be a pull up, i question crossfit in general whether its the most effective form of training, or even safe for that matter.

Traditional circuit training imo is far safer and better.

The idea of doing olympic style lifts to infinite reps just seems stupid to me they werent designed for that,

But this is just my opinion!

Kips are a pull up. Just as Strict are a pull up. Variations of movements exist... You might not like it but it's a fact.

A total 45 pull ups, along with 45 thrusters, for time... You better believe it's a high volume to push through in a matter of minutes while fatigue and thrusters are starting to kick you in the face.

Crossfit is perfectly safe, when the programming is put together by a competent coach. Just like circuit training or anything else. As for whether it's the most efficient way to train? There's about a million things to take into consideration and the argument could go on until the end of time. To call the whole thing unsafe though, is unfair and downright untrue.

rubadub

Mellor wrote: »

If crossfitters were routinely going into a website for pull-ups and bragging then the above would make sense.

The bragging was just one thing I got an inclining of, often it is not any deliberate bragging or trying to mislead people on the posters part, i.e. not even them in the video, -could be just saying "look at this video of a guy doing 30 pullups" and being attacked since they guy did a very slight kip (this happened to me before). I think the main thing is people pissed off with them trying to redefine what is a widely recognised term, rather than come up with a new one. I have no real issue myself, just saying the impression I get as to why it annoys people so much.

It just makes life easier if people stick to well established terms, without having to resort to changing the well established term, i.e. since the rise of cross fit I notice more people calling them "strict pullups".

Crossfit also appear to call what most people call chinups, pullups. i.e. most people call palms facing chins, and palms away pullups. Seems crossfit do not care what way people do them, but if this is the case I would have just said do 10 chinups or pullups. Its not just crossfit who reject these terms pullup/chinup terms either. I have seen others.

On the gymnasticsbodies site I see the coach use the term "headstand pushups" for what most people call "handstand pushups". And would consider a "handstand pushup" to be done on parallel bars or on blocks where you can get a full ROM. I think it would have made more sense to call them full ROM handstand pushups or something. -just as I think it would make more sense for crossfit guides to always call them kipping pullups, or perhaps even a new term without pullup in it. I think that same coach calls kipping pullups "chinese pullups" too, which I also think causes unneccessary confusion. In my job I take a lot of time naming things and spend a lot of time pre-empting any possible confusion -sometimes deliberately using incorrect terminology or units as I know its what the layperson will understand, and the technical person will see that too -or I stick in brackets to also state it in the correct but often unusual way.

John Mongo wrote: »

Is a Front Squat not a real squat because the bar isn't on your back?

If I hear someone say they squatted Xkg I presume it is a back squat. If someone has done a front squat they are far more likely to call it that, just like most people would prefer crossfit people to say kipping pullups. The difference in this case can be in the percieved bragging I was talking about before, if someone said it was a "squat" and upon further questioning its actually a front squat then the feat is usually seen as more impressive, as most peoples front squat is going to be less. Neglecting to mention they were kipping can be seen as a deliberate attempt to leave it out, even if the kipping was more difficult I would say people would still have an issue. If someone neglected to say it was a box squat or very partial ROM squat I can imagine people saying "you said you squatted 200kg, thats not a real squat"

I remember reading one impressive account of a chinup record holder who turned out to be using wrist straps to assist himself.

evo2000

John Mongo wrote: »

Kips are a pull up. Just as Strict are a pull up. Variations of movements exist... You might not like it but it's a fact.

A total 45 pull ups, along with 45 thrusters, for time... You better believe it's a high volume to push through in a matter of minutes while fatigue and thrusters are starting to kick you in the face.

Crossfit is perfectly safe, when the programming is put together by a competent coach. Just like circuit training or anything else. As for whether it's the most efficient way to train? There's about a million things to take into consideration and the argument could go on until the end of time. To call the whole thing unsafe though, is unfair and downright untrue.

Perfectly safe? i wouldnt go that far there are some strong arguements against it to be fair with some very legit points, again tho it depends on who you ask! we ll just have to agree to disagree i guess!

Hanley

Everyone who's ever done is kipping pull up is going to die.

There's a perfect correlation between kipping pull ups and death.

I was so so wrong