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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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    #182
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    mad muffin wrote: »
    There you have it folks.

    Hamas the bastions of freedom and human rights

    Bravo, bravo.
    mad muffin wrote: »
    There you have it folks.

    Hamas the bastions of freedom and human rights

    Bravo, bravo.

    Human rights violations in occupied Palestinian territory cannot be distorted - UN expert:

    6 June 2013 – A United Nations independent expert today drew attention to the human rights violations in the occupied Palestinian territory and stressed that attempts to distort the facts cannot mask the reality that Israel’s actions are endangering Palestinians’ lives every day.

    “Neither Israel nor its proxies can justify the facts on the ground in occupied Palestine,” Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories, Richard Falk, said, “so they distract, distort and defame to allow the violations to go on.”

    In a news release, Mr. Falk underlined that “irresponsible and dishonest smear campaigns to discredit those who document these realities do not change the facts on the ground 46 after Israel launched the war that began its occupation of Palestine.”

    According to Mr. Falk, Israel is actively confiscating Palestinian water and land, having seized an additional 60,000 square meters of land near Nablus just this week.

    “Israel continues to annex Palestinian territory; Israel persists in demolishing Palestinians’ homes and populating Palestine with Israeli citizens; Israel maintains a policy of collectively punishing 1.75 million Palestinians through its imposition of a blockade on the Gaza Strip; and Israel prosecutes its occupation with impunity, refusing to accept the world’s calls to respect international law,” he said.
    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45108#.U9i-jYm9Kc0

    people in glass houses and all that.


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    #183
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    hju6 wrote: »
    Are the little children and babies being slaughtered by Israel members of Hamas?

    Did the little children and babies being slaughtered by Israel vote for Hamas?

    Their parents did.

    Did their parents not think of the consequences of voting I a terrorist organisation with continued hostilities towards Israel?


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    #184
    rowanh
    Registered Users Posts: 703 ✭✭✭rowanh


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Sooo basically, don't quote anything remotely pro Israel?


    Maybe we should rename the thread title?

    Something like Israel's land grabbing murder machine and genocide of Palestinians?

    Since this is clearly what the conclusion is here.

    Maybe I should only post in here if I have only pro Palestinian anti Israeli opinions?

    After all if I am pro Israeli I'm pro murder and genocide and colonial rule?

    Can't possibly be that the Palestinians chose a terrorist organisation with documented intent to wipe out Israel to support them?

    Oh but I forgot. That's perfectly ok because after the 6 day war won over land that was part of Jordan and Egypt. The Palestinians have a right now to attack Israel.

    Again, no one has explained why Jordan and Egypt won't help the Palestinians? They did originally govern Gaza and the West Bank.

    Why would Jordan and Egypt have a peace treaty with Israel the murdering genocidal land grabbers?

    I dont see how anyone can be pro Israel unless they are either brain washed or totally ignorant to the history of Israel and what they are currently doing but if you are pro Israel you are pro murder and genocide and colonial rule, yes.

    I think the Palestinians do have a right to attack Israel as Israel is denying them basic human rights of living in freedom, what they are doing is not very effective but i can see how they don't see any other option. What would you suggest? Simply let Israel destroy they houses and force them to live in an occupied country killing them as they see fit?


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    #185
    theenergy
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭theenergy


    enough is enough.

    I see both sides of this conflict really spiritually sick.

    Whats more the yanks are behind the scenes on this.

    Stop the fcukn bombing on both sides it is horrible.

    a solution will be found sooner or later ....

    we can avoid further casualties

    who would have ever thought we could have peace up north


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    #186
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    mad muffin wrote: »
    I'm talking about an open letter to denounce Palestinians voting Hamas in a terrorist organisation. Not foreign doctors voting for Hamas.

    Interesting you keep building this up. Why?

    Also, every single Israeli government has expanded there settlements since 1967. Do you expect an open letter in this regard? How about a complete settlement freeze?

    You keep talking about Hamas being elected, why?


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    #187
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    wes wrote: »
    Interesting you keep building this up. Why?

    Also, every single Israeli government has expanded there settlements since 1967. Do you expect an open letter in this regard? How about a complete settlement freeze?

    You keep talking about Hamas being elected, why?

    Are they not a terrorist organisation, with intent to wiping out Israel, elected to represent the people of Gaza?


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    #188
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Their parents did.

    Did their parents not think of the consequences of voting I a terrorist organisation with continued hostilities towards Israel?

    Is your point that its ok to target these kids because of who their parents voted for.

    Another school hit today.


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    #189
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Their parents did.

    Did their parents not think of the consequences of voting I a terrorist organisation with continued hostilities towards Israel?

    So justifying the murder of civilians? Is that what your saying? You claim your not saying this, but then you say something like the above, which seem to suggest that is what your getting at......

    Again, the same question could be turned around and asked of Israeli's seeing as every single Israeli government has expanding settlements since 1967......


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    #190
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Their parents did.

    Did their parents not think of the consequences of voting I a terrorist organisation with continued hostilities towards Israel?

    So little children and babies should be punished for the 'crimes' of the parents?


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    #191
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Are they not a terrorist organisation, with intent to wiping out Israel, elected to represent the people of Gaza?

    Who is causing most terror in this campaign?


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    #192
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Sooo basically, don't quote anything remotely pro Israel?


    Maybe we should rename the thread title?

    Something like Israel's land grabbing murder machine and genocide of Palestinians?

    Since this is clearly what the conclusion is here.

    Maybe I should only post in here if I have only pro Palestinian anti Israeli opinions?

    After all if I am pro Israeli I'm pro murder and genocide and colonial rule?

    Can't possibly be that the Palestinians chose a terrorist organisation with documented intent to wipe out Israel to support them?

    Oh but I forgot. That's perfectly ok because after the 6 day war won over land that was part of Jordan and Egypt. The Palestinians have a right now to attack Israel.

    Again, no one has explained why Jordan and Egypt won't help the Palestinians? They did originally govern Gaza and the West Bank.

    Why would Jordan and Egypt have a peace treaty with Israel the murdering genocidal land grabbers?

    If you can show me one of those dead Palestinian kids that voted for Hamas all those years ago, I'll switch to your side.


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    #193
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Are they not a terrorist organisation, with intent to wiping out Israel, elected to represent the people of Gaza?

    Terrorists are non-state actors. You point out Hamas was elected, and I would also like to further point out they are a part of a unity government as well. So they are not terrorists.

    When they were elected, they removed call for the destruction of Israel from the election manifesto:

    Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto

    That above fact has been mentioned by me several times in these recent threads, and I think even in reply to you as well. Why do you ignore this fact? Are you trying to justify the murder of civilians?

    Also, again the same rational can be applied in regards to Israel, seeing as every single government expanded settlements (settler colonialism is a genocidal in nature, just look at what happened to the Native Americans), and we see elected Israeli politicians calling for genocide openly during the current Gaza assault.


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    #194
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Look we can go around and around like this all day.

    Suffice it to say, I cannot stand for a people that vote Hamas to represent them.

    Just like a lot of Irish sneer at the mention of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.


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    #195
    dav3
    Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    As lunchtime approaches, remember to check for country of origin on all fruit and vegetables.

    Boycott as many Israeli good and products as possible. Buy Irish if possible.

    Boycott Israel

    Every euro not sent Israel's way, is a euro less that they can spend on weapons that kill innocent children and fund an illegal occupation.


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    #196
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Look we can go around and around like this all day.

    Suffice it to say, I cannot stand for a people that vote Hamas to represent them.

    Just like a lot of Irish sneer at the mention of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.

    So little children and babies should be punished for the 'crimes' of the parents?


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    #197
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Look we can go around and around like this all day.

    Well, it certainly looks like you are trying to justify the murder of civilians.......
    mad muffin wrote: »
    Suffice it to say, I cannot stand for a people that vote Hamas to represent them.

    Ok, but seeing as this is in the context of civilians being murdered by the IDF, including children, its certainly an odd thing to say, that seems to be trying to justify murder because people voted for a certain party.......
    mad muffin wrote: »
    Just like a lot of Irish sneer at the mention of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.

    Lets not drag things off topic......


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    #198
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Look we can go around and around like this all day.

    Suffice it to say, I cannot stand for a people that vote Hamas to represent them.

    Just like a lot of Irish sneer at the mention of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.

    Its quite a step from sneering at people for the way they vote to killing their children because you dont like their choices.


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    #199
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Look we can go around and around like this all day.

    Suffice it to say, I cannot stand for a people that vote Hamas to represent them.

    Just like a lot of Irish sneer at the mention of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.

    No one is justifying Hamas, this is a humanitarian issue, the people of Gaza are being subjected to absolute horror by a so called civilised country,


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    #200
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Their parents did.

    Did their parents not think of the consequences of voting I a terrorist organisation with continued hostilities towards Israel?

    So by your logic every man woman and child in Israel is a war criminal


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    #201
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Do terrorists have police forces specifically set up to prevent rocket fire into Israel?

    The same police force that was commended by Israel for the work it was doing..

    That is some terror going on there. :confused:


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    #202
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    rowanh wrote: »
    I think the Palestinians do have a right to attack Israel as Israel is denying them basic human rights of living in freedom, what they are doing is not very effective but i can see how they don't see any other option. What would you suggest? Simply let Israel destroy they houses and force them to live in an occupied country killing them as they see fit?
    You just have to look at the West Bank, a now wholly annexed province of Israel, to see what happens when you don't resist Israeli "peace".


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    #203
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Are they not a terrorist organisation, with intent to wiping out Israel, elected to represent the people of Gaza?
    Which part of your description differentiates between Hamas/Gaza and successive Isreali governments/Israel?


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    #204
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    At some point the Palestinians will have to take responsibility for their own actions.

    They had a chance for their own country. They blew that chance by not wanting to share it with Israel.

    After all if they were so innocent. Jordan wouldn't have expelled them. Egypt wouldn't have closed their borders to them. Their allies wouldn't be other terrorist organisations and countries like, Iran, North Korea, and Qatar.


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    #205
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Look we can go around and around like this all day.
    We're not going around in circles here though. You're getting hammered on every point so you ignore or switch topic.


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    #206
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    mad muffin wrote: »
    At some point the Palestinians will have to take responsibility for their own actions.

    And the Zionists don't apparently? See how I say Zionists and not Israeli's of Jews, as opposed to attacking a whole ethnic group, I focus on a political group.
    mad muffin wrote: »
    They had a chance for their own country. They blew that chance by not wanting to share it with Israel.

    You mean recently arrived European colonists, who intended before they arrived to remove the Palestinians...... Yeah, no wonder they didn't want colonists. Interesting that you give aggressive Zionist colonialism a free pass, as if they had some sort of divine right to the land. Palestinians being against a bunch of Europeans being given a country on there land, was a perfectly reasonable response.
    mad muffin wrote: »
    After all if they were so innocent. Jordan wouldn't have expelled them. Egypt wouldn't have closed their borders to them. Their allies wouldn't be other terrorist organisations and countries like, Iran, North Korea, and Qatar.

    So they had it coming then? So you are justifying the murder of civilians, and now seem to have descended into straight forward racism.


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    #207
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    mad muffin wrote: »
    At some point the Palestinians will have to take responsibility for their own actions.

    They had a chance for their own country. They blew that chance by not wanting to share it with Israel.
    You mean like the West Bank? Tell us how well their territorial integrity is going again under the pax Iraelium?


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    #208
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    mad muffin wrote: »
    At some point the Palestinians will have to take responsibility for their own actions.

    They had a chance for their own country. They blew that chance by not wanting to share it with Israel.

    After all if they were so innocent. Jordan wouldn't have expelled them. Egypt wouldn't have closed their borders to them. Their allies wouldn't be other terrorist organisations and countries like, Iran, North Korea, and Qatar.

    Can you just define your idea of a terrorist please?


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    #209
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    It's quite amazing that our government are so silent on what's happening in Gaza. A few weeks ago every gobs***e TD and minister was offering advice and interventions in the Garth Brooks concert fiasco and now they have no views or opinion on the mayhem and murder in Gaza ??
    Answers/reasons : (a) they don't give a sh*t. (b) they're all on holidays -probably in whatever the "Galway tent" looks like these days. (c) they've been told by America / Brussels not to say anything that would offend Israel, just like we abstained in the recent UN vote, because we are not allowed have a view or position of our own on this issue. (d) all of the above!
    Any chance of Charlie Flanagan hauling in the Israeli ambassador for a "talking to" - not bloody likely!!! Shameful "dog in the manger" stance of our Government on this conflict - not in our name surely ??


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    #210
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    If you guys are so concerned. I suggest you hire a boat or a plane and head over to Gaza, instead of banging away at your keyboards.

    My pints are not one or lost in a one sided argument.

    Israel us wrong and the Palestinians are right?

    The Middle East is not as black and white as that.


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    #211
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    mad muffin wrote: »
    They had a chance for their own country. They blew that chance by not wanting to share it with Israel.
    Pardon me, but you are telling us countries have to share their land with Israel or they face open warfare? Making what Israel is doing different from any other land grab how exactly?


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