Question for the boys - to pay or not to pay?

Penny Tration

realgirl wrote: »

One last point, then I'll drop it! In addition to the items mentioned above, many women will use the following to get ready for a date: mascara, eyeshadow, eyeliner, eyelash curlers, eyebrow enhancer, primer, foundation, powder, lipstick, concealer, nail polish/trip to the nailbar, exfoliater and regularly pay a whack to have their hair highlighted/coloured/whatever. So while I now sound massively high maintenance after reading through that list, I'm really not compared to the many other women I know I swear! Also, I do all that cos I like to go out looking good and feeling good about myself, not to 'please a man'. I just think its nice when the effort is appreciated, rather than "sure we all have a shower before heading out"...!
NB I haven't even mentioned fake tan, sunbeds, waxing, leg make up and many other things women do cos I don't personally do them...

Jaysus, do we?

Any first date I've been on, I've taken 15 minutes to get ready. Bb cream, light eye make up, lip balm, dress I'm comfortable in (only because I hate wearing jeans), tights, flats, done.

Dial Hard

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Any first date I was on was a casual meeting just to see how we got on, both of us were in t shirts and jeans.

I would have thought this was the norm for a first meeting.

I've never gone quite that casual on a first date, but I've certainly never bought a whole new outfit and got my hair and nails and everything done either. I haven't the time, money or inclination!

Bafucin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What have you issues with, thatr a woman should pay halves?

No, the opposite I would have issues with paying for everything. Generally it's best to pay for what you both order I think.

quadrifoglio verde

realgirl wrote: »

I totally agree with you, and if I was going on that type of date I'd do the same. If I was going on a dinner date however, which is more what was being discussed here, I'd be spending the hour preening and using the ridiculous litany of products listed! Let's face it, especially on a first date, appearance matters a lot. I'm also pretty sure that I wouldn't look particularly high maintenance cos I go for a fairly subtle and natural look so I don't look very made up at all. Good luck on your date this weekend you sound like a good match :-)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but appearance matters for all of two seconds until you start talking. If we hit it off, you can look like Susan Boyle for all I care, I'd rather have someone who I got on really well with, than a bit of eye candy.
Now if the eye candy came with the package, happy days, but for me personality outweigh looks 100-1.

beyondbelief67

I think for a first date semi casual but not too casual, but enough that the person can tell you have made an effort and not just met them after shopping or work.
And for a first date, just meeting for a coffee and a chat, maybe a walk on the beach or park, but I don't see the reason of meeting for a meal, you need to talk and you can't do that while eating ?? And same why go to the cinema on a first date ? How will you know if you like each other enough for a second date ?

realgirl

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but appearance matters for all of two seconds until you start talking. If we hit it off, you can look like Susan Boyle for all I care, I'd rather have someone who I got on really well with, than a bit of eye candy.
Now if the eye candy came with the package, happy days, but for me personality outweigh looks 100-1.

Dunno what bubble you think you're bursting, I don't think it's only about appearance at all and would never think that looks matter more than whether or not you hit it off with someone. But I think people are generally looking for someone they get on well with, and find attractive both as a person and for how they look. We might not like that, but I think its the reality. I think most people will go on a date and try to put their best foot forward and play to their strengths - maybe by being relaxed and a bit of fun, or by styling their hair or putting on a bit of make-up, or by wearing something that compliments their figure or whatever they feel comfortable with. People can dislike that, or call it fake or whatever, but I think it's just how it is, for both men and women.

Shakespeare's Sister

Half and half or take turns. Some guys prefer to pay for all on the first date, or even more than that. I wouldn't feel right allowing that though. Letting someone else pay for everything for you, no matter what the context, is beyond being a tight-arse.

Or at least pay back in other situations - like spotting something they'd like and buying it for them as a gift, filling their petrol tank etc.

LordNorbury

Anyway OP, how did this latest date go?!? And who paid for what obviously?!? :cool:

JeffKenna

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but appearance matters for all of two seconds until you start talking. If we hit it off, you can look like Susan Boyle for all I care, I'd rather have someone who I got on really well with, than a bit of eye candy.
Now if the eye candy came with the package, happy days, but for me personality outweigh looks 100-1.

Ah now that's a bit of a ridululas statement. To even consider dating or entering into a relationship you need to fancy someone.

ALiasEX

Not true. My dad doesn't fancy my mum and they are still together after about 30 years.

quadrifoglio verde

JeffKenna wrote: »

Ah now that's a bit of a ridululas statement. To even consider dating or entering into a relationship you need to fancy someone.

The first time I met my gf of 4 and a half years, I didn't fancy her at all. Got on so well with her that one thing led to another and quickly I fell madly in love with her and majorly attracted to her. Had I wrote her off because on the first time I saw her I wasn't attracted to her, well then that would have been a major mistake.

I'd never go for women based on looks, personality is much more important. Also you must consider, a lot of women age really really badly. Not all, but a good few I know don't look half as good as they did when they were younger.

py2006

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Also you must consider, a lot of women age really really badly. Not all, but a good few I know don't look half as good as they did when they were younger.

I sure hope your girlfriend didn't just read that...

riveratom

I think that's one that really varies from person to person. One of my best mates didn't fancy his current girlfriend when he first got to know her as a friend. She fancied him from the start but he wasn't attracted to her. Then I talked him into asking her out as they were getting closer and he thought that he should give it a go.

Fast forward five years and they are moving in together this weekend..

I'm different though - I absolutely need to be attracted to the girl. It's just the way it is. However, I could still definitely see how I could be friends with someone first, then maybe 'see them in a different way', and feel attracted to them then.

Galwayguy35

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

The first time I met my gf of 4 and a half years, I didn't fancy her at all. Got on so well with her that one thing led to another and quickly I fell madly in love with her and majorly attracted to her. Had I wrote her off because on the first time I saw her I wasn't attracted to her, well then that would have been a major mistake.

I'd never go for women based on looks, personality is much more important. Also you must consider, a lot of women age really really badly. Not all, but a good few I know don't look half as good as they did when they were younger.

And that worked for you which is fair enough, but personally I think if I don't find someone attractive then it's not going to go anywhere.

I never got this whole thing of "personality is the most important thing to me" and that people who go for looks in a future partner are "shallow".

Galwayguy35

Dial Hard wrote: »

I've never gone quite that casual on a first date, but I've certainly never bought a whole new outfit and got my hair and nails and everything done either. I haven't the time, money or inclination!

Maybe it's just me but I think a first meeting should be just that, meet up with no pressure involved and if we hit it off and feel comfortable in each others company then date 2 would be the one where both of us would put the effort in to look good.

Granted most men don't have as much to do but I think we have come on a good bit since the days of previous generations when a bit of Brylcream was caked in the hair.

professore

Personally I think if you do the asking, male or female, then you should expect to pay. It's nothing to do with gender roles, it's the same in business ... if you ask someone to dinner for a business purpose you are expected to pay too.

Imagine asking a client you are trying to impress to dinner and then asking them to pay for it, or split the bill? It's fine and even basic courtesy if the other person offers or insists to pay. If they insist I would split the bill. If they don't, and take it for granted, then it generally is a clue that you are being used for a free meal.

In fact the whole gender thing should be more about why is it mostly the guys that ask the women out? If you protest about splitting the bill but never ask a guy out yourself, then you are kind of contradicting yourself.

I would agree with other posters though, if after the first date it's all take and no give that it's time to run.

At the end of the day it's way cheaper than being stuck in a LTR with someone you despise.

EDIT: Actually I'd agree with Galwayguy35. Why so formal on a first date anyway?

beks101

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

And that worked for you which is fair enough, but personally I think if I don't find someone attractive then it's not going to go anywhere.

I never got this whole thing of "personality is the most important thing to me" and that people who go for looks in a future partner are "shallow".

I'd personally absolutely hate if my boyfriend 'didn't fancy me at all' on first meeting only for some sort of attraction to later grow because he found my jokes funny or something.

That's not how attraction has ever worked for me. Even the guys who didn't provoke instant butterflies at first sight - there was definitely some spark of attraction at the beginning. A definite 'I would'.

IME of dating, I'd much prefer to be outright rejected by someone who wasn't really feeling it in those early days than the headfcuk of some guy peddling along in some sort of dating scenario with me in the event that he MAY feel differently over time.

Smartly Dressed

If I ask a girl out, or invite her somewhere, I would expect to pay. On the second date I'd probably pay as well. After that, when it's clear that we're both enjoying each others company, I would expect her to split the bill (although sometimes I'd still pay for the whole thing).

Recently I found myself with a girl who made me pay for everything, such as rounds, drinks after dinner and at half time during a sports game, dragged me to a food court because she wanted a snack and when I made no attempt to pay, she blushed and started rummaging for her purse. Maybe I destroyed her romantic notions but we were both college students with the same (limited) income and I really think it was unfair that she never once offered to even split anything.

JeffKenna

ALiasEX wrote: »

Not true. My dad doesn't fancy my mum and they are still together after about 30 years.

Ah now but are they happy?

realgirl

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

If I ask a girl out, or invite her somewhere, I would expect to pay. On the second date I'd probably pay as well. After that, when it's clear that we're both enjoying each others company, I would expect her to split the bill (although sometimes I'd still pay for the whole thing).

Recently I found myself with a girl who made me pay for everything, such as rounds, drinks after dinner and at half time during a sports game, dragged me to a food court because she wanted a snack and when I made no attempt to pay, she blushed and started rummaging for her purse. Maybe I destroyed her romantic notions but we were both college students with the same (limited) income and I really think it was unfair that she never once offered to even split anything.

Jaysus that's unbelievable, I get really embarrassed for people when I hear stuff like that. Even if you were loaded nobody should just expect someone else to pay for everything, especially a relative stranger. That is seriously taking the p!ss!

Smartly Dressed

realgirl wrote: »

Jaysus that's unbelievable, I get really embarrassed for people when I hear stuff like that. Even if you were loaded nobody should just expect someone else to pay for everything, especially a relative stranger. That is seriously taking the p!ss!

I found it quite hurtful as well as the most I ever got was one ''thanks'' on a single occasion in reciprocation. If she had even paid for a coffee once in a while I would have very genuinely appreciated it. I never knew how to bring the subject up either, so I never did.

LordNorbury

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I found it quite hurtful as well as the most I ever got was one ''thanks'' on a single occasion in reciprocation. If she had even paid for a coffee once in a while I would have very genuinely appreciated it. I never knew how to bring the subject up either, so I never did.

Happened me a few months with a girl I started seeing, it's not common but you do run into it the odd time.

I've a dinner date tonight, it's a first date, will report on the paying procedure later lol!

realgirl

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I found it quite hurtful as well as the most I ever got was one ''thanks'' on a single occasion in reciprocation. If she had even paid for a coffee once in a while I would have very genuinely appreciated it. I never knew how to bring the subject up either, so I never did.

Hang on I thought your original post was about one date! Wow, can't believe that was an ongoing thing, of course that's hurtful she was totally taking advantage of you and not a bit appreciative of your generosity. On the bright side, you're unlikely to end up in that situation again...

LordNorbury

Went on a dinner date last night, it was a first date, we hadn't discussed how we were paying beforehand, there was no agreement to go dutch or whatever, we both just showed up. Had a grand evening I have to say, conversation didn't seem to be a problem at all as we both are chatty individuals, although we seemed to get on well and click on one level, I didn't think that there was an abundance of chemistry between us. I would definitely have fancied her but didn't feel by the end of the evening, that this was reciprocated, in fact I actually felt quite decisively that it probably wasn't, although there was nothing she said or did that gave me that impression, it was more the absence of something, just a gut feeling that I had.

At the end of the night, we called for the bill, when the bill landed down to the table I told her I insisted on paying, as I had asked her out for dinner, then she insisted on paying for her half, but I insisted on paying for us and she was (a bit reluctantly) grand with that then. We are most unlikely to meet again and I kind of knew this by the end of the night when I insisted that I wanted to pay the bill for the both of us, (the point being that I had no romantic interest left in insisting that I pay for both of us at that stage), but still and all, I still think it is right to follow things things through and if you are bringing a girl out to dinner, that you don't start making a total fool out of yourself by putting your paw out for half the bill at the end of the night.

So upwards and onwards as the man says...

mdolly123

Hello...any girl not paying her own way should be asked why not??? OK to share bill but who expects a guy to pay anymore just 'cos he's male.........

LordNorbury

mdolly123 wrote: »

Hello...any girl not paying her own way should be asked why not??? OK to share bill but who expects a guy to pay anymore just 'cos he's male.........

Its not "because he is male", in and of itself, it's because he asked her out for dinner.

Potatoeman

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

If I ask a girl out, or invite her somewhere, I would expect to pay. On the second date I'd probably pay as well. After that, when it's clear that we're both enjoying each others company, I would expect her to split the bill (although sometimes I'd still pay for the whole thing).

Recently I found myself with a girl who made me pay for everything, such as rounds, drinks after dinner and at half time during a sports game, dragged me to a food court because she wanted a snack and when I made no attempt to pay, she blushed and started rummaging for her purse. Maybe I destroyed her romantic notions but we were both college students with the same (limited) income and I really think it was unfair that she never once offered to even split anything.

That was a bit crap. The problem though is that you set the standard. You always paid so she just expected it. Dragging you out for food and not offering or even thinking of paying does make her seem self involved.

sun structures

OT but does anyone else really hate the term "future partner", "current OH" etc? Makes it seem like such an official type business relationship. :P

iptba

Asking somebody out can be awkward: I much prefer being the askee than the asker and I think many men and women would be the same.

So am not convinced the asker should have to suffer (in a way) again by having to pay more.

LordNorbury

Here's an interesting thought angle on the subject of paying... On my date the other night, when I said I wanted to pay & she responded that she wanted to pay half the bill, (and don't forget this dinner date went very well in terms of conversation, etc), but on some silly level, I got it into my head that she was offering to pay her half, because even though the night had gone well, there was no great chemistry and I got it into my head that she was signalling to me in an indirect sort of a way at the very end of our date, that she didn't see a 2nd date in it at that stage and didn't want to basically "sting" me for the cost of her meal, in the knowledge that if I asked to meet her again, I'd probably be told "nah I don't think there was enough chemistry for a 2nd date", or else that I'd get the "you're a really nice gonna chatty guy but no chemistry on the night" line.

As it happened I went with my gut feeling & didn't pursue a 2nd date with her, but I did interpret the insisting on paying on her part, as signalling on some level that she didn't want to feel like a bit of a cúnt if I had paid for the whole thing & then asked her out again only to be told no?!?

And you thought women were complicated lol?!?