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Question for the boys - to pay or not to pay?

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    #122
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    gadetra wrote: »
    I suppose I don't understand how the guy is fundamentally more responsible (financially) for the date than the lady just because he did the asking out?
    Caveat-I have made the first move in 100% of my relationships/dates so far in life, but still after the initial contact, he might suggest dinner or whatever. I just don't understand why he is more liable for the cost of it just because he suggested it?
    When it's a date with another lady it's 50-50 always, as it is with the guys but some really insist on paying and i don't know why.
    The only reason i can see for paying is if the other person is flat broke and you ask them out and pay coz of that-because you want to see them (and you can afford it. I'm crap for it at the moment it's really embarrassing :o), but a date is a mutual agreement so why should one party bear the cost more than the other?
    It's possible I'm just broken and don't get it. Especially about the 'she paid half she doesn't want yo see you again' thing. I genuinely never heard that before! :o

    I just think it's scabby, cheap & miserable to ask a girl out for dinner and then expect her to pay for her half of the meal. It's different with drinks, I've been on dates lately & it usually just falls into a rounds type situation, I genuinely don't know what it is about doing a dinner date that makes it different if I'm being honest with you lol?!?


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    #123
    Panthro
    Registered Users Posts: 14,782 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Don't think I'd ever go for dinner as a first date to be honest.
    If after whatever length of time you say to yourself 'I'm not interested in this person'...you're basically stuck there until all the courses have been done and its' time to call it a night.
    I reckon meeting up for a few drinks is the way to go. You get in the first few rounds, then if she's any sort a girl she'll buy you a few back.

    But that's all just me thinking out loud.
    Baaadoomm


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    #124
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    I just think it's scabby, cheap & miserable to ask a girl out for dinner and then expect her to pay for her half of the meal. It's different with drinks, I've been on dates lately & it usually just falls into a rounds type situation, I genuinely don't know what it is about doing a dinner date that makes it different if I'm being honest with you lol?!?

    Ha ha ha exactly, it wouldn't be normal to pay for anything else but dinner seems to be a special case for no good reason. I don't think it's scabby in any way shape or form, the opposite makes zero sense to me at all.
    I also know now I need to let them know I want to see them again or not before I pay my half in future!! :eek:


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    #125
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    Panthro wrote: »
    Don't think I'd ever go for dinner as a first date to be honest.
    If after whatever length of time you say to yourself 'I'm not interested in this person'...you're basically stuck there until all the courses have been done and its' time to call it a night.
    I reckon meeting up for a few drinks is the way to go. You get in the first few rounds, then if she's any sort a girl she'll buy you a few back.

    But that's all just me thinking out loud.
    Baaadoomm

    Most of the better dates I've had have been dinner dates for first dates but you have to be very careful and do your homework and have made a point of having gotten to know the other person and chatted to them on the phone a few times, so you know conversation will not be a problem. A lot of girls wouldn't do a dinner date for a first date as they would struggle with nerves, and that's the kind of girl I generally don't want to end up on a date with, the kind of girl who is good with conversation and has a bit of confidence about her and who is warm and chatty and personable, will usually have no problem doing a dinner date. The kind of girl who would reply to a dinner date request with, "no too soon, let's do a drink first", is just doing me a favour declining as it's not the kind of girl I'm looking for.


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    #126
    riveratom
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭riveratom


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    Most of the better dates I've had have been dinner dates for first dates but you have to be very careful and do your homework and have made a point of having gotten to know the other person and chatted to them on the phone a few times, so you know conversation will not be a problem. A lot of girls wouldn't do a dinner date for a first date as they would struggle with nerves, and that's the kind of girl I generally don't want to end up on a date with, the kind of girl who is good with conversation and has a bit of confidence about her and who is warm and chatty and personable, will usually have no problem doing a dinner date. The kind of girl who would reply to a dinner date request with, "no too soon, let's do a drink first", is just doing me a favour declining as it's not the kind of girl I'm looking for.

    I think it depends on your definition of 'dinner date'. If it's a proper sit down restaurant thing then I don't think it's a great idea - I think a few drinks is a much better option. If it's just a fairly casual sit down grab a bite type thing, then that's grand.

    I don't think you can judge a girl on the basis of whether she will go for a dinner date or not! Jaypers you'd want to be making a call on more than just that like!


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    #127
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    riveratom wrote: »
    I think it depends on your definition of 'dinner date'. If it's a proper sit down restaurant thing then I don't think it's a great idea - I think a few drinks is a much better option. If it's just a fairly casual sit down grab a bite type thing, then that's grand.

    I don't think you can judge a girl on the basis of whether she will go for a dinner date or not! Jaypers you'd want to be making a call on more than just that like!

    It depends what you are looking for, where this all is initiated through internet dating, you will find yourself categorising people like this. For example I'll never do a coffee date as it is too informal, I'd rather make a bit more of an effort and I appreciate the sense of occasion that comes with a proper dinner date. Coffee dates are (for me) too casual and lack any sense of occasion, a few drinks can be ok, I do them the odd time, but then you have the whole drunken mish mash thrown in as well after 2-3 hours of drinking where the chemistry you are experiencing can be the alcohol... It's a matter of choice really I think but if you are single and dating regularly, you will find yourself gravitating towards something that works for you and dinner dates work for me. I have mates who wouldn't dream of meeting a girl for a dinner date sober, it wouldn't be within their vocabulary, because the only way they know how to meet women is drunk in pubs and clubs. If you read many of the profiles on dating sites today, it is this very experience that women in general are trying to avoid, the drunken conversation in a pub or club.


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    #128
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pwurple wrote: »
    Where are you eating that they SAY the total as they give you the bill? McDonalds?? You have to physically look at it to check, is this honestly so hard to understand?

    Something is clearly hard to understand and I am not sure this lies on my side. By "check" the bill I mean not going through it to make sure the items are right, priced correctly, totalled correctly, or broken down correctly, or with the correct VAT applied.

    I am not referring to a cursory look at the total.

    And yes many places I have eaten in do vocally say the total as they hand it over. Many do not. There is no hard and fast rule.
    pwurple wrote: »
    It's like I'm the only person who has ever been in a restaurant in here!!

    It is more like you are extrapolating your personal restaurant experiences into a global generalisation of what all restaurants are like. Which is generally never a good approach.
    pwurple wrote: »
    I'm talking about the eejit who tosses a credit card on the bill without ever opening the leather sleeve it's in, or even glancing at the number on it.

    Again one can be good with numbers and do this. Because at some point you either have to SIGN something or PIN CODE something - and in both of these cases you also have the chance to glance at the total and make sure it conforms with your initial expectations.

    You appear to assume that just tossing the card on means you never check anything. The checking merely happens slightly later in the process - as I said - before authorising the payment. The "check" not happening when you personally expect it does not mean it never happens at all. Your own expectations are tripping you up and causing you to write posts where you think the only one understanding anything is you - when in fact the only one NOT is you.

    Definite life lesson - when one notices one appears to be the ONLY one in a group "getting it" - one should question whether one is the only one in the group actually NOT getting it.


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    #129
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    I just think it's scabby, cheap & miserable to ask a girl out for dinner and then expect her to pay for her half of the meal. It's different with drinks, I've been on dates lately & it usually just falls into a rounds type situation, I genuinely don't know what it is about doing a dinner date that makes it different if I'm being honest with you lol?!?

    What if a woman asks you out to dinner? You believe if you ask a woman to dinner because you have done the asking it is your responsibility to pay. Does the inverse apply that if a woman asked you to dinner she should be expected to pay since she asked you?


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    #130
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Maguined wrote: »
    What if a woman asks you out to dinner? You believe if you ask a woman to dinner because you have done the asking it is your responsibility to pay. Does the inverse apply that if a woman asked you to dinner she should be expected to pay since she asked you?
    Naturally. :confused:

    She invited me.

    If I invite you to dinner in my house: I don't expect you to half the grocery bill, or do half the cooking. You were invited ergo, you are a guest.


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    #131
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    Maguined wrote: »
    What if a woman asks you out to dinner? You believe if you ask a woman to dinner because you have done the asking it is your responsibility to pay. Does the inverse apply that if a woman asked you to dinner she should be expected to pay since she asked you?

    Well the convention is usually that men ask women out & not the other way around I think. It has happened me a few times where a girl asked me out to dinner but on those occasions it was for my birthday & she insisted on paying, which I was fine with. In the context of internet dating or dating while single, I've never once had a girl asking me out to dinner. I've had girls proposing we go for a coffee date, which I usually try to upgrade that request into some other type of a date as I hate coffee dates, they are pointless in my experience, also had girls proposing me meet for drinks, which is ok as we'd generally do rounds in that situation.

    I genuinely don't know what it is about a dinner date, that make the rules & norms regarding payment thereof, different than any other type of date, (for me anyway)... As I've said before, the idea of asking a girl to dinner, having a really good date, and then asking her at the end of the night for half the bill, it just makes me shudder & cringe and the thoughts of appearing so mean & petty.


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    #132
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    With regards to who asked who and paying -

    If I invite a man for dinner, I expect to pay because I've asked. If he insists on splitting, I'll tell him to just get the next one. If he insists on paying, I'll buy drinks.

    If a man asks me to dinner, I won't offer to pay the lot, but will happily pay my share. Again, should he insist on ppaying the lot, I'll buy drinks or tell him I'm paying next time.

    I have a friend who, before she met her partner, went on dates with nothing but her bus fare home. That kind of attitude shocks me.


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    #133
    Maguined
    Registered Users Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    Well the convention is usually that men ask women out & not the other way around I think. It has happened me a few times where a girl asked me out to dinner but on those occasions it was for my birthday & she insisted on paying, which I was fine with. In the context of internet dating or dating while single, I've never once had a girl asking me out to dinner. I've had girls proposing we go for a coffee date, which I usually try to upgrade that request into some other type of a date as I hate coffee dates, they are pointless in my experience, also had girls proposing me meet for drinks, which is ok as we'd generally do rounds in that situation.

    I genuinely don't know what it is about a dinner date, that make the rules & norms regarding payment thereof, different than any other type of date, (for me anyway)... As I've said before, the idea of asking a girl to dinner, having a really good date, and then asking her at the end of the night for half the bill, it just makes me shudder & cringe and the thoughts of appearing so mean & petty.

    Okay fair enough it hasn't happened but how do you think you would react if it did? Let's say you met an intelligent, charming and beautiful woman. She ticks all your boxes, has a high paid job so earns at least if not more than you do and then she is the one that asks you out to dinner.

    Would you be fine in letting her pay the full bill? Even if you offer to split the bill she insists that as she asked you out she feels she wants to pay the full bill.


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    #134
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It is more like you are extrapolating your personal restaurant experiences into a global generalisation of what all restaurants are like. Which is generally never a good approach.
    I think with the volume of restaurants I've been in over the course of my life, and the few I've worked in when I was younger, I can very easily generalise what the experience is going to be like regarding the bill. New and exciting billing experiences await me I'm sure though!
    Again one can be good with numbers and do this. Because at some point you either have to SIGN something or PIN CODE something - and in both of these cases you also have the chance to glance at the total and make sure it conforms with your initial expectations.

    And what exactly have you done at that point, when there is a mistake? Take the card away and ask for the bill back again, like a chump?


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    #135
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    If I ask someone out I'll pay, I wouldn't risk a potential date turning me down because they are short on cash. If they want to contribute something then I'll accept but I wouldn't expect it or think less of them on the first date. If it becomes a pattern then that's different.


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    #136
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    Well the convention is usually that men ask women out & not the other way around I think. It has happened me a few times where a girl asked me out to dinner but on those occasions it was for my birthday & she insisted on paying, which I was fine with. In the context of internet dating or dating while single, I've never once had a girl asking me out to dinner. I've had girls proposing we go for a coffee date, which I usually try to upgrade that request into some other type of a date as I hate coffee dates, they are pointless in my experience, also had girls proposing me meet for drinks, which is ok as we'd generally do rounds in that situation.

    I genuinely don't know what it is about a dinner date, that make the rules & norms regarding payment thereof, different than any other type of date, (for me anyway)... As I've said before, the idea of asking a girl to dinner, having a really good date, and then asking her at the end of the night for half the bill, it just makes me shudder & cringe and the thoughts of appearing so mean & petty.

    I would pay for the first but they should pay for the second. I wouldnt be too impressed with a woman that expected me to pay for everything. Its very traditional but most people are not traditional. I have come across a few women with an a la carte attitude to tradition which is not attractive.


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    #137
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Some people spend €1,000's on a watch, I don't see the problem with a €600 handbag, well I think it's silly paying that much but each to their own!

    As has already been said, if I ask I pay, I've never been on a date when it was an issue tbh. Date would offer 50/50, I'd say thanks but pay for it, she'd thank me, end of!

    I wouldn't be too hung up on the 50/50 thing, I've probably paid for more meals than gf's because I don't mind, and often I'd have earned more. The last 2 gf's would make a point of bringing me out and paying if I'd paid for the last 2 or 3 dinners, quite enjoyed that myself, nice thank you.

    Drinks and that type of stuff would be by round, if I was paying for 3 or 4 rounds in a row and there wasn't a good reason that would be the end of the date.

    Just an aside, but I went away with a couple once, 3 of us to watch a Liverpool match. The friends partner ended up just sitting there with me and him buying rounds. They never seemed to see a problem with this, they'd be very traditional, but I'm nearly sure she was working at the time and had her own independent income! Bloody cheek.

    PS. The idea of splitting everything annoys me, probably because I work in accountancy and see enough of that in my work!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #138
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    Maguined wrote: »
    Okay fair enough it hasn't happened but how do you think you would react if it did? Let's say you met an intelligent, charming and beautiful woman. She ticks all your boxes, has a high paid job so earns at least if not more than you do and then she is the one that asks you out to dinner.

    Would you be fine in letting her pay the full bill? Even if you offer to split the bill she insists that as she asked you out she feels she wants to pay the full bill.

    Yeah I guess I would let her pay, I certainly wouldn't expect her to though. To my mind, the same convention/tradition that says a guy pays to bring a girl out to dinner, also says that the guy asks a girl to join him for dinner in the first place, which probably explains why I've gone on loads of dinner dates over the years but have never been asked out to dinner by a girl. The same convention is in place on dating sites when it comes to who sends the first mail, although you can clearly see that you have both viewed each other's profiles, strangely women very rarely initiate contact, (this is actually starting to change I must point out), it is generally left to the men, although women in their 30's now are generally being a lot more proactive when it comes to online dating, they will send the first mail, they will move the conversation from chatting to "let's meet for a drink", whereas until recently, all this was left to the guy...


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    #139
    LordNorbury
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭LordNorbury


    pwurple wrote: »
    I think with the volume of restaurants I've been in over the course of my life, and the few I've worked in when I was younger, I can very easily generalise what the experience is going to be like regarding the bill. New and exciting billing experiences await me I'm sure though!



    And what exactly have you done at that point, when there is a mistake? Take the card away and ask for the bill back again, like a chump?

    In fairness to the poster making the point about checking the bill, I've been for meals where a second (unordered) bottle of wine has mysteriously appeared on the bill, it's not a bad habit to get into, to throw your eye over the bill before paying it, as mistakes can & do happen regularly.


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    #140
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    The same convention is in place on dating sites when it comes to who sends the first mail, although you can clearly see that you have both viewed each other's profiles, strangely women very rarely initiate contact...
    I think this is mainly down to supply and demand.
    If you have a popular profile, whether you are a man or a woman, you're more likely to get messages.
    Therefore you have less of a need for being as proactive as people who get less messages.


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    #141
    bilbot79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    It's fine the first time. I did it for my girl, to show I like her


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    #142
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,443 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    One girl I asked out I paid for the first date (and had no problem with that) and after that it was split 50/50.

    Another girl I was on a few dates with paid for nothing even though her job paid a lot more than mine, in fact she told me that she felt it was the mans job to pay for a night out.


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    #143
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    pwurple wrote: »
    I think with the volume of restaurants I've been in over the course of my life, and the few I've worked in when I was younger, I can very easily generalise what the experience is going to be like regarding the bill.

    And yet given said experience does not - in many cases - match the one I describe - clearly the extrapolation is not as useful as your faith in it decrees.
    pwurple wrote: »
    New and exciting billing experiences await me I'm sure though!

    Whatever floats your boat I guess :)
    pwurple wrote: »
    And what exactly have you done at that point, when there is a mistake? Take the card away and ask for the bill back again, like a chump?

    Thus far an issue has never come up. I have a figure in my head - give or take a few euro - that I expect the bill to be. Thus far every time I have come to authorise the total the figure has conformed to my expecations. Simples.


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    #144
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Can't say it would bother me really - I'd probably expect to pay the first time though

    I'm not the type to go keeping score anyway. As long as it wasn't all one way then that's fine or we split the cost of a night - eg: I get the cinema tickets, she gets the food/drinks, or I might get dinner tonight and she'll get it next time etc

    In the long run (if it gets that far!) it all evens out. Plus 2 people might not have the same amount of disposable cash anyway but as long as an effort is made all the same then that's fine with me.


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    #145
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    I've no issues with paying on the first date once the girl offers to pay. If she just turns her nose up in an expectant manner there won't be a second date.


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    #146
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,347 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I get my wife to pay for everything when we are out and about. We have a joint account so it is no burden really but it is always interesting to see the reactions, especially in restaurants, when I hand the bill over to her.


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    #147
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    We have a joint account

    oh-no-you-didnt.jpg


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    #148
    Bafucin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Bafucin


    I would have issues with it. Besides the fact I can't afford it I think I would. Maybe not so much for coffee but in general yes.


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    #149
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,443 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Bafucin wrote: »
    I would have issues with it. Besides the fact I can't afford it I think I would. Maybe not so much for coffee but in general yes.

    What have you issues with, thatr a woman should pay halves?


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    #150
    realgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 212 ✭✭realgirl


    LordNorbury wrote: »
    No you're actually on the ball, most women would find it endearing, I just happened to be on a date with a paranoid twat who had her head filled with cynicism on loads of different fronts...
    Couldn't bypass this and not post. I think if a guy offered to have a drink waiting for me when I arrived I would find that endearing... but if I hadn't met him before, I would prefer to get my own drink or be there when he's getting it. I've been spiked, it wasn't fun. Luckily I wasn't attacked or anything but I did take a trip to A&E by ambulance, which wasn't exactly what I'd had planned for a fun night out. I'd prefer this never happened again, and I will take whatever precautions seem reasonable to me to prevent that. If a guy doesn't respect that, or it upsets his ego, that's not as important to me as my own safety. End of.
    More on topic, I think if someone issues an invitation to dinner, cinema, whatever, they should pay. If there is coffee/drinks after etc then the other person should pay. I'm pretty 50/50 on most things so the idea of the man should always pay seems crazy to me. Still for a first date I'd appreciate a show of generosity by a guy. In general a woman will have spent a lot more in advance of the date on outfit, makeup, possibly nails and hair etc - most guys just
    shower, shave and show up!


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    #151
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    realgirl wrote: »
    Couldn't bypass this and not post. I think if a guy offered to have a drink waiting for me when I arrived I would find that endearing... but if I hadn't met him before, I would prefer to get my own drink or be there when he's getting it. I've been spiked, it wasn't fun. Luckily I wasn't attacked or anything but I did take a trip to A&E by ambulance, which wasn't exactly what I'd had planned for a fun night out. I'd prefer this never happened again, and I will take whatever precautions seem reasonable to me to prevent that. If a guy doesn't respect that, or it upsets his ego, that's not as important to me as my own safety. End of.
    More on topic, I think if someone issues an invitation to dinner, cinema, whatever, they should pay. If there is coffee/drinks after etc then the other person should pay. I'm pretty 50/50 on most things so the idea of the man should always pay seems crazy to me. Still for a first date I'd appreciate a show of generosity by a guy. In general a woman will have spent a lot more in advance of the date on outfit, makeup, possibly nails and hair etc - most guys just
    shower, shave and show up!

    I think the guy should pay for the first date, sure but then the girl should pay for the second.
    I never understand the attitude that the guy should pay because the woman spends money on beauty products.


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