Question for the boys - to pay or not to pay?

realgirl

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think the guy should pay for the first date, sure but then the girl should pay for the second.
I never understand the attitude that the guy should pay because the woman spends money on beauty products.

It's like if a friend travelled a long way to meet me for lunch, I'd probably buy the lunch cos I appreciate they've already forked out for petrol/train/bus. I like to look good when I go out, nothing over the top or uber expensive at all, but unfortunately I don't look like that without a bit of effort and it all adds up. I don't expect the guy to pay for that reason, but a guy who appreciates that I spent a decent amount of time, effort and some money too to arrive looking well is appreciated by me!

LordNorbury

realgirl wrote: »

It's like if a friend travelled a long way to meet me for lunch, I'd probably buy the lunch cos I appreciate they've already forked out for petrol/train/bus. I like to look good when I go out, nothing over the top or uber expensive at all, but unfortunately I don't look like that without a bit of effort and it all adds up. I don't expect the guy to pay for that reason, but a guy who appreciates that I spent a decent amount of time, effort and some money too to arrive looking well is appreciated by me!

I'm not sure I'm understanding you there, are you saying that a guy should demonstrate his appreciation to you for the money you spent, (you mentioned above that "it all adds up"), making yourself look good for a date, by paying for the cost of the date?

realgirl

LordNorbury wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm understanding you there, are you saying that a guy should demonstrate his appreciation to you for the money you spent, (you mentioned above that "it all adds up"), making yourself look good for a date, by paying for the cost of the date?

I sense I have opened a can of worms! I definitely don't think the guy 'should' pay for the 'whole' date for this reason, but I would appreciate him realising/acknowledging the time and effort I'd have gone to and a bit of generosity on his part can show that and its a nice touch. Just the same as guys saying they appreciate when a woman offers to buy drinks, split the bill etc. Comes down to mutual respect I think.

Maximus Alexander

Surely he is acknowledging that by going on a date with you in the first place.

LordNorbury

realgirl wrote: »

I sense I have opened a can of worms! I definitely don't think the guy 'should' pay for the 'whole' date for this reason, but I would appreciate him realising/acknowledging the time and effort I'd have gone to and a bit of generosity on his part can show that and its a nice touch. Just the same as guys saying they appreciate when a woman offers to buy drinks, split the bill etc. Comes down to mutual respect I think.

I can't agree with the logic there though, because we have to get ready too, shower gel, razors, aftershave, those lovely shirts, it all adds up lol!

realgirl

LordNorbury wrote: »

I can't agree with the logic there though, because we have to get ready too, shower gel, razors, aftershave, those lovely shirts, it all adds up lol!

One last point, then I'll drop it! In addition to the items mentioned above, many women will use the following to get ready for a date: mascara, eyeshadow, eyeliner, eyelash curlers, eyebrow enhancer, primer, foundation, powder, lipstick, concealer, nail polish/trip to the nailbar, exfoliater and regularly pay a whack to have their hair highlighted/coloured/whatever. So while I now sound massively high maintenance after reading through that list, I'm really not compared to the many other women I know I swear! Also, I do all that cos I like to go out looking good and feeling good about myself, not to 'please a man'. I just think its nice when the effort is appreciated, rather than "sure we all have a shower before heading out"...!
NB I haven't even mentioned fake tan, sunbeds, waxing, leg make up and many other things women do cos I don't personally do them...

LordNorbury

realgirl wrote: »

One last point, then I'll drop it! In addition to the items mentioned above, many women will use the following to get ready for a date: mascara, eyeshadow, eyeliner, eyelash curlers, eyebrow enhancer, primer, foundation, powder, lipstick, concealer, nail polish/trip to the nailbar, exfoliater and regularly pay a whack to have their hair highlighted/coloured/whatever. So while I now sound massively high maintenance after reading through that list, I'm really not compared to the many other women I know I swear! Also, I do all that cos I like to go out looking good and feeling good about myself, not to 'please a man'. I just think its nice when the effort is appreciated, rather than "sure we all have a shower before heading out"...!
NB I haven't even mentioned fake tan, sunbeds, waxing, leg make up and many other things women do cos I don't personally do them...

None of it is necessary for a successful date though, if anything I think it is likely to possibly mitigate against you if you appear too high maintenance. I went on an evening date with a girl earlier this week, we grabbed 2 coffees to go in a local Eurospar and went for a saunter up the mountains, we both wore jeans, runners and light jackets, she looked very well, but we were both dressed very casually, she had her hair tied up in a ponytail, no crazy make up job done or an hour spent preening herself, no need for most of what you have outlined above. We got on great and are meeting up again this weekend, the point being that you can have a successful date without having to take on the expense, time and hassle that comes with all of the above.

Maximus Alexander

LordNorbury wrote: »

None of it is necessary for a successful date though, if anything I think it is likely to possibly mitigate against you if you appear too high maintenance. I went on an evening date with a girl earlier this week, we grabbed 2 coffees to go in a local Eurospar and went for a saunter up the mountains, we both wore jeans, runners and light jackets, she looked very well, but we were both dressed very casually, she had her hair tied up in a ponytail, no crazy make up job done or an hour spent preening herself, no need for most of what you have outlined above. We got on great and are meeting up again this weekend, the point being that you can have a successful date without having to take on the expense, time and hassle that comes with all of the above.

Damn right. I've never been one to go for women who do themselves up too much, no disrespect to anyone who does. I always have this image of waking up the morning after with pillowcases looking like the Turin shroud. :eek:

Casual dates like you described are great and also tend to mean that the girl in question is fairly easy going and comfortable in her own skin.

coffee_cake

LordNorbury wrote: »

In fairness to the poster making the point about checking the bill, I've been for meals where a second (unordered) bottle of wine has mysteriously appeared on the bill, it's not a bad habit to get into, to throw your eye over the bill before paying it, as mistakes can & do happen regularly.

Yeah it's happened to me as well. I tend to check all bills now

realgirl

LordNorbury wrote: »

None of it is necessary for a successful date though, if anything I think it is likely to possibly mitigate against you if you appear too high maintenance. I went on an evening date with a girl earlier this week, we grabbed 2 coffees to go in a local Eurospar and went for a saunter up the mountains, we both wore jeans, runners and light jackets, she looked very well, but we were both dressed very casually, she had her hair tied up in a ponytail, no crazy make up job done or an hour spent preening herself, no need for most of what you have outlined above. We got on great and are meeting up again this weekend, the point being that you can have a successful date without having to take on the expense, time and hassle that comes with all of the above.

I totally agree with you, and if I was going on that type of date I'd do the same. If I was going on a dinner date however, which is more what was being discussed here, I'd be spending the hour preening and using the ridiculous litany of products listed! Let's face it, especially on a first date, appearance matters a lot. I'm also pretty sure that I wouldn't look particularly high maintenance cos I go for a fairly subtle and natural look so I don't look very made up at all. Good luck on your date this weekend you sound like a good match :-)

Dial Hard

I've heard it all now. Men should pay for the date to reimburse you for the miniscule amount of cosmetics you've already bought that you used in order to get ready for that specific date?

Jesus wept.

the_syco

LordNorbury wrote: »

In fairness to the poster making the point about checking the bill, I've been for meals where a second (unordered) bottle of wine has mysteriously appeared on the bill, it's not a bad habit to get into, to throw your eye over the bill before paying it, as mistakes can & do happen regularly.

On this, my father was telling me recently of how a restaurant tried to bill him for the table of four that were sitting next to him, as opposed to the table he and my mum were at.

_Kaiser_

Dial Hard wrote: »

I've heard it all now. Men should pay for the date to reimburse you for the miniscule amount of cosmetics you've already bought that you used in order to get ready for that specific date?

Jesus wept.

I'd have to agree.. that just screams "entitlement" and "high maintenance" to me, besides as someone else pointed out, it's not as if men don't spend time and effort (and money) on making themselves presentable before a date too. It'd be wasted on me anyway as I'm not really into the excessive makeup look. I like a woman who looks after herself generally but not to the point of the laundry list of products listed above.

Besides, if appearances matter so much (and I'm not saying they aren't a factor) then you are either starting off by presenting a false image if you have to do all that, or setting yourself up for hours of effort every week to try and maintain the illusion.

I'd rather a woman who was comfortable enough in herself to just be herself - sense of humour, personality, and looks!

LordNorbury

One of the nicest things a girl ever did for me a few years ago was bring me out for dinner on my birthday, wouldn't let me pay, then at the end of the night, she produces this little wrapped up box from her handbag, we had only been seeing each other a fortnight I think, but she went and got me a bottle of her fav aftershave on a guy, it was a Dolche & Gabanna Light Blue, I still wear it to this day!

Potatoeman

realgirl wrote: »

I totally agree with you, and if I was going on that type of date I'd do the same. If I was going on a dinner date however, which is more what was being discussed here, I'd be spending the hour preening and using the ridiculous litany of products listed! Let's face it, especially on a first date, appearance matters a lot. I'm also pretty sure that I wouldn't look particularly high maintenance cos I go for a fairly subtle and natural look so I don't look very made up at all. Good luck on your date this weekend you sound like a good match :-)

Most if it sounds like stuff you do anyway though. Nothing specifically for the guy in question, maybe getting your hair done.
Fake tan is not sexy. I dont get why so many women are into it.

Pinkmoon19

LordNorbury wrote: »

One of the nicest things a girl ever did for me a few years ago was bring me out for dinner on my birthday, wouldn't let me pay, then at the end of the night, she produces this little wrapped up box from her handbag, we had only been seeing each other a fortnight I think, but she went and got me a bottle of her fav aftershave on a guy, it was a Dolche & Gabanna Light Blue, I still wear it to this day!

That's so lovely! Maybe slightly intense? Did you guys date for long afterwards?

Saint Sonner

My opinion is if its a first date and the guy asked the girl out he should pay for everything. However if it goes on longer than dinner - say to a bar I would let the girl pay for a drink if she wanted to but I wouldn't ask her to.

I've been with my GF for over 4 years now and we usually just take turns at paying (depending whose flush at the time) because we are comfortable with each other - she always offered to pay for meals at the start but I generally didn't let her as I wanted to create a good impression. I liked the fact that she offered and I like the fact that she pays her share and sometimes more now because I couldn't stick a girl who made her man pay for everything.

Incidentally this happens to my friend with his newly wed - its quite embarrassing to be around and she's particularly vocal about how he pays for everything and so he should attitude. Me and my GF discussed this recently after being out with them again and both agreed that it wasn't a good thing for their relationship.

Dial Hard

Potatoeman wrote: »

Fake tan is not sexy. I dont get why so many women are into it.

Really obvious fake tan is awful. Subtle tan, chances are you won't even know she's wearing it.

I look like Corpse Bride with no tan on, so always have a very light colour. I can't tell you how many rants of "Fake tan is horrible, no woman should ever wear it" I've sat through, only for the man to be gobsmacked when I point out that I'm wearing some.

But yeah, bright orange or dark greyish-brown with rings around the wrists and palms is not a good look on anybody. Something that a lot of the women at Longitude clearly needed to be told...

LordNorbury

wolfen wrote: »

That's so lovely! Maybe slightly intense? Did you guys date for long afterwards?

Well we were both just out of really long term relationships at the time, I think we were only single a month or two, we had been friends for at least 5 years previous, but having been in our respective long term thingys, we obviously never acted on what was probably a strong mutual attraction, (we didn't know it was mutual until we ended up together and discussed it!), then one night we were out in the same pub and we got yapping and we established that we were both single while doing the small talk, then the flirting seemed to go up a few levels. At around midnight, she had a whisper into my mates ear, (there was a gang of us out and they were all going to a nightclub, whereas I hadn't the money at the time to stay out all night so I was plodding home after my few pints), but she told my mate to work out some way to get me to some to the nightclub with them, so my mate took me aside and told me he'd kick the crap out of me if I didn't accept an immediate loan of 100 Euro from him, repayable in a months time lol!

So we all went to the nightclub (it was Club Rain in Portabello), and we ended up snogging to some ridiculously mushy slow set haha, (I think it was Chris De Burgh, Lady in Red!!!) :D:D It was gas because all our mates were looking on at this thinking, "wtf, these two are wearing on the dancefloor?!?"...

We dated for I think it was 2 months after that, but we kinda knew that we were both emotionally raw (I was actually worse than she was!), after emerging out of our respective long term things, if I was to be honest, I think we knew it was a bit of company for each other once or twice a week, and we would both be very mushy/affectionate people so the cuddling up on the sofa when out for a drink or whether having a wine night in and all that stuff, we loved that, but I think we knew it was not gonna be a big serious huu haa of a relationship at the time... I can't remember what it was I did that píssed her off in the end, but it was my fault we didn't stay together but if we were out in the same pub we'd still have a pint together and a giggle and flirt our arses off with each other lol, she's seeing a guy long term now though, they've been together a year or 2 I think...

Maximus Alexander

I had a pretty similar experience to yours LordNorbury, but happily we're still together nearly five years on. It's funny to look back and think we were both right there under one another's noses for years while we both wasted time with other people. Although it was probably the first time we were both single at the same time that we got together!

Potatoeman

Dial Hard wrote: »

Really obvious fake tan is awful. Subtle tan, chances are you won't even know she's wearing it.

I look like Corpse Bride with no tan on, so always have a very light colour. I can't tell you how many rants of "Fake tan is horrible, no woman should ever wear it" I've sat through, only for the man to be gobsmacked when I point out that I'm wearing some.

But yeah, bright orange or dark greyish-brown with rings around the wrists and palms is not a good look on anybody. Something that a lot of the women at Longitude clearly needed to be told...

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Pale can be just as attractive.

Maximus Alexander

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Pale can be just as attractive.

If not moreso to some people. Like me.

Malari

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Pale can be just as attractive.

Pale is attractive, sure. But blue...not so much. I often use a bit of fake tan to bring myself up to pale :pac:

And it's not really about appearing attractive to other people, it's how I feel comfortable in myself.

LordNorbury

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Pale can be just as attractive.

Pale is gorgeous!

the_syco

Dial Hard wrote: »

I look like Corpse Bride with no tan on, so always have a very light colour.

I'm taking it you don't like heavy metal? A fair couple of metal chicks cake themselves with the white stuff to appear white! But it comes down to what you feel comfortable, f*** everyone else

py2006

Malari wrote: »

I often use a bit of fake tan to bring myself up to pale :pac:

I read that as, 'I often use a bit of fake tan to bring myself up to the pale'.

LordNorbury

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I had a pretty similar experience to yours LordNorbury, but happily we're still together nearly five years on. It's funny to look back and think we were both right there under one another's noses for years while we both wasted time with other people. Although it was probably the first time we were both single at the same time that we got together!

The icing on the cake was that when I had previously just asked one of my mates about her, after we first met (when we were both in relationships), my mate told me, "she's seein' a fella long term but even if she was single, she is wayyyyyyy out of your league!"...

Fast forward a few years when we are both single, and there she is trying to set us up together, one of the more humorous moments of single life! :cool:

Dial Hard

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Pale can be just as attractive.

Pale can be just as attractive if you're lucky to have Dita von Teese-style alabaster skin. However, even Dita von Teese isn't that lucky, and wears lashings of body make-up.

Pale only works if you have beautiful, even skin to go with it. Something very few women do. I wear tan to even out my skin-tone, not to correct the colour.

Galwayguy35

realgirl wrote: »

One last point, then I'll drop it! In addition to the items mentioned above, many women will use the following to get ready for a date: mascara, eyeshadow, eyeliner, eyelash curlers, eyebrow enhancer, primer, foundation, powder, lipstick, concealer, nail polish/trip to the nailbar, exfoliater and regularly pay a whack to have their hair highlighted/coloured/whatever. So while I now sound massively high maintenance after reading through that list, I'm really not compared to the many other women I know I swear! Also, I do all that cos I like to go out looking good and feeling good about myself, not to 'please a man'. I just think its nice when the effort is appreciated, rather than "sure we all have a shower before heading out"...!
NB I haven't even mentioned fake tan, sunbeds, waxing, leg make up and many other things women do cos I don't personally do them...

Any first date I was on was a casual meeting just to see how we got on, both of us were in t shirts and jeans.

I would have thought this was the norm for a first meeting.

Dial Hard

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Any first date I was on was a casual meeting just to see how we got on, both of us were in t shirts and jeans.

I would have thought this was the norm for a first meeting.

I've never gone quite that casual on a first date, but I've certainly never bought a whole new outfit and got my hair and nails and everything done either. I haven't the time, money or inclination!