Question for the boys - to pay or not to pay?

Pinkmoon19

Hi!

I'm sure there are a million threads open already on this but looking for some male insight. I've recently started dated after getting out of LTR. My ex was pretty stingy and I paid for pretty much everything.

If you are on a date with a girl for the first time would you expect to pay? Or would you have an issue if she didn't offer to pay for anything?

I was on a date last night and it went really well and he paid, but afterwards I felt a little bit guilty. The girls think that it's normal, but what do the guys think?

Thanks a Mil!

Jhcx

I've had this discussion with my friend and maybe just the way we've been brought up. But we believe going half and half is always the best. Unless for special occasions but it it shows that both are willing to meet in the middle. I don't mind paying for oh but there would only be so much I could pay fully for. Obviously if I offered to bring them out for dinner or cinema I'd pay but if we suggested meeting up at cinema I'd expect each pay of their own but maybe buy them the sweets and stuff just so don't seen like an overly stingy person. That's just imo. Everyone views it differently so girls would prolly hate it. But like in my last relationship we bought each second hotel room just so was fair.

This is one of those issues that there simply is no right and wrong answers. It is entirely down to the people involved.

As with all such issues however people can get highly emotionally invested in THEIR answers. And the discussons can get really emotional really fast - with invective and attacks on all sides.

On another forum I post on one woman even went around calling men who do NOT pay all kinds of names and worse. Including the old reliable "they are not real men". There is also a mentality that if you ask someone out on a date - you are obliged by having issued the invitation - to pay.

Again - as soon as anyone enters into the realm of "shoulds" on this they are simply wrong from the outset. There is no shoulds - only what is right for the next person.

If his paying on this date bothers you - then simply pay for the next one - and every second date after that. After all - what is fairer than "turns"?

Having said all that - it is much eaiser in countries like Germany where paying a collective bill seperately is the "norm" there. The waiting staff will come with the bill and their first question - pretty much always - is "together or seperate" and more often than not the answer is "seperate" and people quickly list what they have and pay for it.

You do that in Ireland - and the waiting staff can on occasion react quite poorly - before going off grumbling to find a calculator.

jackofalltrades

wolfen wrote: »

If you are on a date with a girl for the first time would you expect to pay?

I'd expect to pay my fair share. Not for everything.

Or would you have an issue if she didn't offer to pay for anything?

Yes I definitely would have an issue with this.
If I got a round in, I'd be looking for her to get the next one.

I've never dated a woman who hasn't offered to pay for half.
And the one's that expect their dates to be free, are usually the "princess" types who I'd run a mile from anyway.

LordNorbury

wolfen wrote: »

Hi!

I'm sure there are a million threads open already on this but looking for some male insight. I've recently started dated after getting out of LTR. My ex was pretty stingy and I paid for pretty much everything.

If you are on a date with a girl for the first time would you expect to pay? Or would you have an issue if she didn't offer to pay for anything?

I was on a date last night and it went really well and he paid, but afterwards I felt a little bit guilty. The girls think that it's normal, but what do the guys think?

Thanks a Mil!

I was on a date very recently, we had been yapping online a good while, swapped numbers, we said we'd go for dinner. This was a first date. So we met up at the restaurant, this was at around 9PM, we got on really really well, and were yapping all night.

We hadn't discussed beforehand, how we were paying for our date (this isn't actually unusual these days, some girls will insist on going 50-50 on the evening and will make this central to the agreement to a date, before actually agreeing to meet you, which I would fully respect I have to say, in fact I would actually admire this), but I can be a little old fashioned, so at the end of the night, I popped over to the waitress on the way back from the jacks and settled the bill, which I had no problem with doing. My view is that if you ask a girl out for dinner, then you don't start putting the paw out at the end of the night looking for half the cost of the bill off her, this is pure meanness in my opinion.

So after such a good date, what happened then? Well, I walked her back to her car and we gave each other a hug goodnight (no kiss), and I texted her when I got home, to make sure she got home, but the one thing that was absent from her was a simple, "hey thank you for dinner", so I didn't pursue it for a 2nd date as I felt that even though her manners were impeccable on the date, it just didn't sit right with me that she had been brought out to dinner and couldn't find it within herself to say thank you.

So I guess the moral of the story is, (1) if a guy asks you out for dinner, he should pay, if he is a proper gentleman, and (2) if you find such a guy, don't forget to thank him for dinner afterwards, especially if you get on well!

Knex*

I think that the woman should show some sort of intention to pay a little, or appreciation of being paid for.

I would expect them to offer, at least, regardless of whether I intend to pay full whack, or not.

Any woman that I have been on a date with and expected me to pay for everything, and never acknowledged it, or thanked me for it, was never called again.

Comes across as entitled to me.

Moat_Cailin

I would always pay on a first date. I ask the girl out, so for me there's no Issue. As I see it, it's me taking her out.

Pinkmoon19

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much everyone for all your responses. Really great food for thought.

I guess because I had not such a great time with my last boyfriend I am in a way testing on the first date to see if he is capable of being generous.

@Lordnorbury - I made a point of saying Thank you and texted when I got home to say thanks again.

I did really appreciate the gesture and thought he came across as extremely courteous. He did it very discreetly as well, like for example he arrived before me and bought a drink so it was waiting when I got there, when I went to the bathroom he had bought another.

He's just messaged me to ask me out again, so the verdict is that we should go 50/50 on this one?

LordNorbury

wolfen wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much everyone for all your responses. Really great food for thought.

I guess because I had not such a great time with my last boyfriend I am in a way testing on the first date to see if he is capable of being generous.

@Lordnorbury - I made a point of saying Thank you and texted when I got home to say thanks again.

I did really appreciate the gesture and thought he came across as extremely courteous. He did it very discreetly as well, like for example he arrived before me and bought a drink so it was waiting when I got there, when I went to the bathroom he had bought another.

He's just messaged me to ask me out again, so the verdict is that we should go 50/50 on this one?

Fair play to ya for thanking him, it's a big thing to a guy, we generally don't mind paying but a small little thank you genuinely does go a long way in a guys head, don't forget he is trying to suss you out too and see if you are relationship material so these things do really matter, especially in the early days...

If it's date 2, it depends on what the activity is, it's a nice touch in a guys mind, to get him a few pints if it's drinks you are heading for, 2-3 pints would make him feel like he's the king lol! If it is something different that has a cost, definitely propose 50-50 or something along those lines... If he gets the next one, it's into you then to take a bit of ownership and plan something and put your own unique twist on a date!

EDIT: I meant to say, in response to your line above that I've highlighted, I tried to do that once for a girl on a 1st date and she stopped me and said don't buy her her drink until she was there, basically she was afraid as she had never met me before, that I could spike her drink! I understand the safety concerns on some level but it was seriously off putting I have to say, but she seemed like the deeply paranoid type anyway.

Pinkmoon19

I meant to say, in response to your line above that I've highlighted, I tried to do that once for a girl on a 1st date and she stopped me and said don't buy her her drink until she was there, basically she was afraid as she had never met me before, that I could spike her drink! I understand the safety concerns on some level but it was seriously off putting I have to say, but she seemed like the deeply paranoid type anyway.

Jeez I never even thought of that. Ooops :rolleyes:

Magenta

I'm female and would always offer to go halves on a dinner date (and mean it).
If the date is drinks in a bar, I will insist on paying for every second round.
Cinema, if he gets the tickets I will get the snacks, etc.

Just doesn't sit right with me to have a guy have to pay for everything. It's a nice gesture for him to make and I will let him pay for everything if I think it means a lot to him (some men see it as a manly thing to do etc) but in this day and age I don't expect it.

Magenta

LordNorbury wrote: »

don't buy her her drink until she was there, basically she was afraid as she had never met me before, that I could spike her drink! I understand the safety concerns on some level but it was seriously off putting I have to say, but she seemed like the deeply paranoid type anyway.

To be honest having a drink there waiting for her is a bit weird anyways if you don't mind me saying, how could you know for definite what she might want to drink? I wouldn't drink it either. I'd probably pretend there was a funny taste off it and go get my own.

Pinkmoon19

Magenta wrote: »

To be honest having a drink there waiting for her is a bit weird anyways if you don't mind me saying, how could you know for definite what she might want to drink? I wouldn't drink it either. I'd probably pretend there was a funny taste off it and go get my own.

Really!? He arrived early and didn't want to be sitting there on his own, so he messaged me and asked what I fancied. I thought it was sweet. I'm obviously a bit more naive then some of the other ladies out there!

LordNorbury

wolfen wrote: »

Really!? He arrived early and didn't want to be sitting there on his own, so he messaged me and asked what I fancied. I thought it was sweet. I'm obviously a bit more naive then some of the other ladies out there!

No you're actually on the ball, most women would find it endearing, I just happened to be on a date with a paranoid twat who had her head filled with cynicism on loads of different fronts...

LordNorbury

Magenta wrote: »

To be honest having a drink there waiting for her is a bit weird anyways if you don't mind me saying, how could you know for definite what she might want to drink? I wouldn't drink it either. I'd probably pretend there was a funny taste off it and go get my own.

Eh you could ask her as I did!

Call me Al

I'm not dating anymore (thank god!) But even in the 90s I think most women I knew would have expected to pay their way, unless they were stony broke and in college while the partner was working and earning a decent enough salary. I earned more than my now husband back then but we still split stuff like this half and half.
But if any guy I dated started breaking down the bill afterwards into each little detail, like who had the 4euro starter versus the 6.95 euro one, I wouldn't be answering his calls for a second date. That's a line I just couldn't cross.

LordNorbury

Call me Al wrote: »

I'm not dating anymore (thank god!) But even in the 90s I think most women I knew would have expected to pay their way, unless they were stony broke and in college while the partner was working and earning a decent enough salary. I earned more than my now husband back then but we still split stuff like this half and half.
But if any guy I dated started breaking down the bill afterwards into each little detail, like who had the 4euro starter versus the 6.95 euro one, I wouldn't be answering his calls for a second date. That's a line I just couldn't cross.

It definitely would cause mortification for a guy to act like that, but there are mean people who carry on like this, I have one friend who would have no shame in asking a girl out and carving up the bill at the end of the night and holding her to the last cent, he'd even try to sting her for the tip!

Then on the other hand, there are like minded women who play guys for fools and are dating 5 nights a week to be wined and dined by men, women who have no intention of putting their hands into their pockets on any of these dates. They are few and far between, like the men I've described above, you just need to know how to dodge them!

Penny Tration

Female here, and I always try to pay my way. My current boyfriend wouldn't let me at first, because he had a high paid job and earned triple what I did, but when he lost his job, I paid for most things, although he hated it :pac: First dates, I insist on paying my way.

DamoKen

LordNorbury wrote: »

Then on the other hand, there are like minded women who play guys for fools and are dating 5 nights a week to be wined and dined by men, women who have no intention of putting their hands into their pockets on any of these dates. They are few and far between, like the men I've described above, you just need to know how to dodge them!

Experienced that once or twice in my dating days (thankfully long over!!!). Actually went on a date one night where as she neared the end of each glass I'd get an expectant look and a wiggle of the glass. By the fourth or fifth wiggle where she hadn't moved from her seat the thoughts of a second date were gone. Final straw was the one time she did leave her seat to go to the bathroom I received another wiggle of the glass and a drinks order change, despite her having to walk by the bar to the toilets. Waited til she came back, made my excuses and left. Meanness is the biggest turnoff.

As far as a girl arriving where a drink is waiting for her. I've always done that if I arrived first, texting obviously to see what she'd like. Just think it's basic manners. If you arrive first and you know the other person will be there in a couple of minutes think it's a bit selfish to just look after yourself. Never thought of the whole spiked drink thing before this thread!

LordNorbury

DamoKen wrote: »

Experienced that once or twice in my dating days (thankfully long over!!!). Actually went on a date one night where as she neared the end of each glass I'd get an expectant look and a wiggle of the glass. By the fourth or fifth wiggle where she hadn't moved from her seat the thoughts of a second date were gone. Final straw was the one time she did leave her seat to go to the bathroom I received another wiggle of the glass and a drinks order change, despite her having to walk by the bar to the toilets. Waited til she came back, made my excuses and left. Meanness is the biggest turnoff.

As far as a girl arriving where a drink is waiting for her. I've always done that if I arrived first, texting obviously to see what she'd like. Just think it's basic manners. If you arrive first and you know the other person will be there in a couple of minutes think it's a bit selfish to just look after yourself. Never thought of the whole spiked drink thing before this thread!

I haven't ran into the "don't pour it until I get there", not before nor since, the girl in question was very difficult so I wouldn't put this down as a normal experience.

There are few things more satisfying I think after putting in a good first date and bringing a girl out for dinner, than for her to get you a pint or two on the next date (if the 2nd date provides for it), as a token of appreciation, it really tells me she is decent and that she really appreciated the effort you went to on your previous date.

Geomy

I've seen it all before good looking guy's and ladies going on free dinner date's.

It's a personal thing, but give me a pair of walking boots, a flask of tea and picnic set up any day.

If she'll rough it,she's worth it.

LordNorbury

Geomy wrote: »

I've seen it all before good looking guy's and ladies going on free dinner date's.

It's a personal thing, but give me a pair of walking boots, a flask of tea and picnic set up any day.

If she'll rough it,she's worth it.

You'll think I'm making this up (I've done a fair bit of internet dating), but women will generally run a mile from something like that, which is a pity as I'd love first dates that involve a hike or a saunter up the mountains with a bag of grub and a flask of tea, but no thanks to Larry Murphy, most girls would run a mile from a first date like that, which is very unfortunate I think, but it is the times we are living in.

Pawwed Rig

If the girl did not even make a show of attempting to pay then there would not be a second date. If I paid for the first one then I would expect her to pay for the second (with some exceptions).

Pinkmoon19

Geomy wrote: »

I've seen it all before good looking guy's and ladies going on free dinner date's.

It's a personal thing, but give me a pair of walking boots, a flask of tea and picnic set up any day.

If she'll rough it,she's worth it.

If that's a shared interest that you both have then it's a brilliant idea for a first date, but it's slightly unrealistic for every woman to want to do that. I love a good hike but it wouldn't be what I would choose for a first date. It's more a date for when you get to know someone a bit better. In my opinion that is.

LordNorbury

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If the girl did not even make a show of attempting to pay then there would not be a second date. If I paid for the first one then I would expect her to pay for the second (with some exceptions).

But if you ask a girl out for dinner, are you not meant to bringing her out?!? I mean you can't be turning around at the end of the meal and saying, "right love I need 55 quid off ya for that"??? It is nice for a girl to offer, but I think if you ask a girl out for a dinner date, there is an implied thing there that you are treating her to dinner. I know some girls will go to lengths to clarify that she would love to go for dinner with you but insists on paying her pay, and this can sometimes get laid out very clearly in advance of an agreement to do dinner, and you obviously have to respect that too if that is the way the girl feels on the subject...

LordNorbury

wolfen wrote: »

If that's a shared interest that you both have then it's a brilliant idea for a first date, but it's slightly unrealistic for every woman to want to do that. I love a good hike but it wouldn't be what I would choose for a first date. It's more a date for when you get to know someone a bit better. In my opinion that is.

I've had some great dates where we've headed off up the mountains with a backpack and grub, but it definitely isn't first date territory! I wish that it was, but sadly I think those days are gone...

helimachoptor

My wife always makes me pay!

If I was asking the lady out I would have no issue with paying, it would be nice for her to offer to pay half but I asked therefore I pay.

When you get to the 3rd:4th/5th date and you're still paying then it's an issue

Panthro

helimachoptor wrote: »

My wife always makes me pay!

If I was asking the lady out I would have no issue with paying, it would be nice for her to offer to pay half but I asked therefore I pay.

When you get to the 3rd:4th/5th date and you're still paying then it's an issue

Says the man who's wife makes him pay for everything!:pac:
(I'm kidding)
I think it's nice to offer to go halfsies on the bill, but not to go breaking the bill down. Say if it's 56euro, say 30snots each and the remainder is a tip.
Or something to that effect.

Knex*

Panthro wrote: »

Says the man who's wife makes him pay for everything!:pac:
(I'm kidding)
I think it's nice to offer to go halfsies on the bill, but not to go breaking the bill down. Say if it's 56euro, say 30snots each and the remainder is a tip.
Or something to that effect.

Yeah. It doesn't have to be an exact science, or anything.

Really, as long as they show a willingness to pay, that's all that matters. Whether they end up contributing or not after that, is beside the point for me.

When they don't show that willingness, or if they don't acknowledge by ways of thanks, you paying, then I feel that I end up feeling a little used and abused, I suppose.

Nobody is entitled to everything handed to them.

py2006

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If the girl did not even make a show of attempting to pay then there would not be a second date. If I paid for the first one then I would expect her to pay for the second (with some exceptions).

Some women gesture to pay but have no intention of actually contributing. And if you don't step up to the plate there aint not second date!

I once went on a date with girl to the cinema. I paid for the tickets and when we were walking towards the screen entrance she asked me did I want food and actually said she would buy as I had bought the tickets. I declined as I wasn't hungry. The next day she texted to say she said she didn't want to see me again as she had to pay for her own food. :rolleyes:

As it turned out she was out with all her all girl friends and they advised her that I was a waist of time because she had to buy herself popcorn.

Knex*

py2006 wrote: »

Some women gesture to pay but have no intention of actually contributing. And if you don't step up to the plate there aint not second date!

I once went on a date with girl to the cinema. I paid for the tickets and when we were walking towards the screen entrance she asked me did I want food and actually said she would buy as I had bought the tickets. I declined as I wasn't hungry. The next day she texted to say she said she didn't want to see me again as she had to pay for her own food. :rolleyes:

As it turned out she was out with all her all girl friends and they advised her that I was a waist of time because she had to buy herself popcorn.

Without wanting to be overly harsh here, but I don't think the waste of time is you, in that scenario.

Bullet dodged, IMO.