Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in Ukraine near Russian border[Mod warning post#193

jimeryan22

billie1b wrote: »

Ok then what about the tweets celebrating just after the plane crash and then upon realising it was civilian jet all the tweets were getting deleted, suppose thats fake too

That is nothing to do with the so called concrete evindence....
The tweets is a morality issue
Its no different from the israelis setting up their deck chairs over watching palestinians getting blown to bits... its disgracfull but still not evidence of guilt

carpejugulum

Stallingrad wrote: »

That's a terrible image that really brings home how tragic this was. If that is shrapnel damage you get a sense of what horror those men, women and children endured in their final seconds. I've no doubt many died falling to earth.

Instant death/unconsciousness after the explosion.

billie1b

jimeryan22 wrote: »

That is nothing to do with the so called concrete evindence....
The tweets is a morality issue
Its no different from the israelis setting up their deck chairs over watching palestinians getting blown to bits... its disgracfull but still not evidence of guilt

If it couldn't be used as concrete evidence then why delete it??? If there was nothing tweeted then it would have been fine but seen as it was tweeted celebrating the event at the same time and place it occurred it can be used as evidence in court now, even though they tried to delete it!

jimeryan22

billie1b wrote: »

If it couldn't be used as concrete evidence then why delete it??? If there was nothing tweeted then it would have been fine but seen as it was tweeted celebrating the event at the same time and place it occurred it can be used as evidence in court now, even though they tried to delete it!

You show me how feckin random tweets celebrating an airliner being shot down is proof of who shot it down and why or how...

andy_g

jimeryan22 wrote: »

No no. Don't be silly
What you have posted here is just stupidity... Russian propaganda..?
Hang on there while I just laugh my bollox off... This **** the best you got is it..? Baaaaaaaaaaaaa
That's the sound of a sheep in case you don't know

Idiotic posts like this earn people holidays, for you its two weeks.

Note to everyone else do not feed the trolls or you may join them on troll island. Stay on topic please.

billie1b

jimeryan22 wrote: »

You show me how feckin random tweets celebrating an airliner being shot down is proof of who shot it down and why or how...

When the tweet says 'just shot down another, we told them not to fly in our air space' (not the exact words but very similar) and then the news starts breaking out that it was a civilian jet and tweets start to get deleted, that's incriminating yourself! I won't be entertaining you anymore you're obviously a troll or just a sad sadistic individual who's getting a major hard on from the murder of hundreds of innocent individuals.

EDIT : sorry Andy, think we posted the same time

knucklehead6

weisses wrote: »

And both the geopolitical consequences and the conspiracy theory aspect of this tragedy are very reel and should be debated no matter what side or angle your from

Not here, not after the mods have specifically requested it.

weisses

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Not here, not after the mods have specifically requested it.

then when becomes a Theory a conspiracy theory ?

The plane is shot down over european airspace I think its more then logical that all aspects of why and how and by whom is going to be discussed.


Im more worried about the personal abuse thrown around here going unpunished

andy_g

weisses wrote: »

then when becomes a Theory a conspiracy theory ?

The plane is shot down over european airspace I think its more then logical that all aspects of why and how and by whom is going to be discussed.


Im more worried about the personal abuse thrown around here going unpunished

Take a look back over the thread things have dealt with on the thread. Also that could be considered questioning a mod on thread which is against the charter.

Conspiracy theories are allowed here on boards.ie however not in this forum please use the dedicated conspiracy theories forums for this discussion.

vicwatson

At least the UN passed the resolution for all the good it might do...

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/un-approves-call-for-international-investigation-into-malaysia-airlines-mh17-tragedy-30448148.html

Call me Al

vicwatson wrote: »

At least the UN passed the resolution for all the good it might do...

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/un-approves-call-for-international-investigation-into-malaysia-airlines-mh17-tragedy-30448148.html

It was covered by CNN last night. Several of the foreign ministers spoke, including the Dutch Australian and Ukranian. The Dutch minister spoke very scathingly of the behaviour of what he called thugs at the crash site, their disrespect towards the bodies and the personal effects. He was very very angry. The Australian minister was very pointed in her criticism in a press conference afterwards as to a Russian unwillingness to direct their loyalists to co-operate with outsiders attempting an assessment of the crime scene.

irishgeo

Well done to the Malaysian pm he went direct to the so called leader of the area and dealt with him direct. And look at the leap forward it has brought.

Everyone else has been jumping up and down at Putin when it's like saying that the Irish pm could control the ira.

Anyway the black boxes look in good shape but anyone else notice that one of the boxes seem to be missing the data module in the pictures. One has the little black and white module the other doesn't.

fr336

Why do people get so angry about 'conspiracy theories'? Some in the course of history have been true.... Some people seem to get more worked up about these than the matter in hand.

I suppose the best thing to do is take in whatever you're told by prime news organisations within an hour of something occurring then go nuke the big bad 'enemy'.

You can see why some see the west as the bad guys rather than good.

the_monkey

So how long should it take to get the data off the boxes ?

will it need to be sent of to Boeing ?

Maximus Alexander

fr336 wrote: »

Why do people get so angry about 'conspiracy theories'? Some in the course of history have been true.... Some people seem to get more worked up about these than the matter in hand.

Because people tend to like discussing the known facts, whereas conspiracy theories usually disregards these and go off on flights of fancy that are not supported by evidence and as such are more suited to a creative writing forum or similar.

Any that were correct in the past were probably alternative theories that fit the evidence, rather than paranoid delusions. Also, if you throw enough crap, something is eventually bound to stick. There are some people who see conspiracies in every major news story and most of us aren't too keen on reading their mad babbling.

knucklehead6

i personally DON'T have a problem with conspiracy theories. But i DO have a problem with them in threads where people are discussing an incident like this. There is a dedicated CT forum on boards, and, at the risk of sounding like a busybody back modder, that's where they should be, not here. Especially after the forum mods have asked for them not to be here

weisses

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Because people tend to like discussing the known facts

Known facts are ... Plane crashed in Ukraine .. High probability it was hit by missile.... That's it

everything else cannot be discussed according to you ?

Or maybe only the theory's you feel comfortable with ?

Reoil

What is the point in recovering the black box and CVR?
The BB will tell them how the plane was flying etc, which we already know - flying fine.
The CVR will only go silent as the missile hit the plane.

What else is there to be discovered?

weisses

knucklehead6 wrote: »

i personally DON'T have a problem with conspiracy theories. But i DO have a problem with them in threads where people are discussing an incident like this. There is a dedicated CT forum on boards, and, at the risk of sounding like a busybody back modder, that's where they should be, not here. Especially after the forum mods have asked for them not to be here

As i said in another post

Known facts are ... Plane crashed in Ukraine .. High probability it was hit by missile.... That's it ....

What else do you want to discuss in this forum then ?

Isn't it obvious in incidents like this that everything surrounding the crash is gonna be discussed ?

I fully agree with you that the far out Conspiracy Theories should be tackled.

the_monkey

Reoil wrote: »

What is the point in recovering the black box and CVR?
The BB will tell them how the plane was flying etc, which we already know - flying fine.
The CVR will only go silent as the missile hit the plane.

What else is there to be discovered?

It wont just go silent, there will be a sound of the impact - this can be used as confirming evidence of the type of missile used location on impact etc..

Jack1985

Known facts are ... Plane crashed in Ukraine .. High probability it was hit by missile.... That's it ....

You forgot to add to that fact that two aircraft were brought down in the same area by pro-Russian militants last week, the fact the local ''Commander'' Igor Strelkov initially posted video's online announcing, ''We told you not to fly in our airspace'' 30 minutes after MH17 was brought down, deleting it shortly after it was announced MH17 was missing over Donetsk region. This same imbecile claimed the bodies weren't fresh, the bodies of f*cking 298 innocent people. So please update your facts, who may be responsible might be eary to you, but it's absolutely obvious.

irishgeo

The type of missle used doesn't hit the plane it explodes about 75ft from the target. The sound of the explosion might be on the CVR.

The sound of other explosions has been found in other disasters.

Calina

Reoil wrote: »

What is the point in recovering the black box and CVR?
The BB will tell them how the plane was flying etc, which we already know - flying fine.
The CVR will only go silent as the missile hit the plane.

What else is there to be discovered?

I believe when the authorities eventually obtained the blackboxes from KAL007 which was shot down in 1983 (I think) some of the transcripts from it yielded useful information in terms of understanding how the plane broke up. While the simple answer "shot down" is understood, ancillary information might bear fruit in the future in terms of aircraft design, for example.

The airline industry tends to look forwards as well as backwards when investigating crashes.

weisses

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't decide what is discussed here, I was answering the question that was posed; why do people dislike conspiracy theories?

I did not suggest that you decide what can be discussed I asked what do you want to be discussed?

And where you would draw the line regarding Facts and (conspiracy) theory

Tenger

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

To hear the last conversations between crew and Kiev air traffic control maybe? Why was MH17 directed to fly 200km further north than the path Malaysian airlines normally takes on the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur route?
Was MH17 tailed by Ukrainian fighters?

As above the CVR may indicate sounds of explosion and possible flight crew reaction.
There was no major flight plan deviation. The route is not always the same. Maps have been publshed by BBC showing that 3 other airliners were in the vicinity close to that time.

I doubt MH17 was tailed by fighters. Why would that happen.

weisses

More possible shrapnel evidence

Shrapnel damage suggests an SA-11 proximity frag warhead may have exploded slightly below and ahead of #MH17's port wing, Royal United Services Institute analyst Justin Bronk said

Maximus Alexander

weisses wrote: »

I did not suggest that you decide what can be discussed I asked what do you want to be discussed?

And where you would draw the line regarding Facts and (conspiracy) theory

I wouldn't have time for any posts that run counter to or blatantly disregard known facts, I think I covered this in my post but perhaps I wasn't concise.

Anyway, we are straying wildly off topic here and I'd rather not get slapped.

Reoil

the_monkey wrote: »

It wont just go silent, there will be a sound of the impact - this can be used as confirming evidence of the type of missile used location on impact etc..

The missile was more than likely travelling as fast as mach 3. I doubt the explosion would have been heard before the system being destroyed. I may be wrong.

eatmyshorts

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

To hear the last conversations between crew and Kiev air traffic control maybe? Why was MH17 directed to fly 200km further north than the path Malaysian airlines normally takes on the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur route?

Flight paths change dynamically. The route one aircraft takes may be different from the next flight ,even as little as an hour later.
Our flight planning system will run through permutations of available routes from origin to destination. The system is looking for the most efficient route to file based on distance, winds, airway charges, restricted airways etc.
Its actually annotated on the flight plan how many permutations were looked at before finalising. The least I've seen is 2 and the most about 65.

weisses

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I wouldn't have time for any posts that run counter to or blatantly disregard known facts,

It used to be a know fact the earth was flat.

Suggesting a passenger plane can be shot down over European airspace during "peace" time before last weeks incident would have provoked a lot of posters saying:

Conspiracy theory forum that way

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