Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

Harry Angstrom

wes wrote: »

Hamas could if they wanted sneak people in.

That might be a bit tricky for them now, seeing as Israel have destroyed most of their tunnels.

wes

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

That might be a bit tricky for them now, seeing as Israel have destroyed most of their tunnels.

The Gaza tunnels went into Egypt..... for the most part. The terror tunnels was Israel's latest in a long line of changing reasons for there war on Gaza. It was about the 3 kindapped teenagers at first, and then when Hamas retaliated to attacks, they then started to blame rockets and "terror tunnels".

Secondly, I was talking about the West Bank:
The West Bank - Israel commute

Harry Angstrom

wes wrote: »

The West Bank - Israel commute

Well at least the Palestinian women can get some experience of a progressive and tolerant country, before going back to their own land where they're treated like second class citizens by their own people.

wes

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Well at least the Palestinian women can get some experience of a progressive and tolerant country, before going back to their own land where they're treated like second class citizens by their own people.

So, what does this have to do with anything that I was talking about exactly? Oh wait nothing at all......

Harry Angstrom

wes wrote: »

So, what does this have to do with anything that I was talking about exactly? Oh wait nothing at all......

Nothing, apart from the fact that they get to spend time in a civilised country for a while.....

Mr.Micro

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Well at least the Palestinian women can get some experience of a progressive and tolerant country, before going back to their own land where they're treated like second class citizens by their own people.

Is that Israel? Progressive and tolerant?

Harry Angstrom

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Is that Israel? Progressive and tolerant?

Okay, if I gave you a choice of living in one country in the Middle East..... You could choose Iran perhaps? Or what about Syria? Saudi Arabia is nice at this time of year...., Qatar maybe? How does Yemen grab you?
Decisions decisions......

wes

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Okay, if I gave you a choice of living in one country in the Middle East..... You could choose Iran perhaps? Or what about Syria? Saudi Arabia is nice at this time of year...., Qatar maybe? How does Yemen grab you?
Decisions decisions......

Reminds of the similar argument from the article I posted earlier.

Still, completely random tangent to come out with....

Mr.Micro

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Okay, if I gave you a choice of living in one country in the Middle East..... You could choose Iran perhaps? Or what about Syria? Saudi Arabia is nice at this time of year...., Qatar maybe? How does Yemen grab you?
Decisions decisions......

You may describe a country as tolerant, progressive and you added civilised. It can be judged by it's behaviour to its neighbours, as well? It is none of those, unless you want to include intolerance, murder, mayhem and war crimes in places like Gaza and the Lebanon in the past, as part of being civilised, progressive etc

tayto lover

IDF target three refugee camps in Gaza today.
The murders continue.

wes

Palestinians returning home find Israeli troops left faeces and venomous graffiti

More examples of the deliberate destruction of civilian property by the IDF, and also what were the IDF doing operating from civilian buildings:

Half an hour's drive north, a similar picture was found at Beit Hanoun girls' school, taken over by the IDF following the ground operation. Broken glass and rubble littered the floors and stairs. Tables and desks were covered in the abandoned detritus of an occupying army: hardened bread rolls, empty tins of hummus, desiccated olives, cans of energy drinks, bullet casings. Flies buzzed around the rotting food.

Here too, said the school's caretaker, Fayez, who didn't want to give his full name, soldiers had defecated in bins and cardboard boxes, and urinated in water bottles. "You will be ****ed here" and "Don't forget it's time for you to die" were chalked in English on blackboards.

Operating from a school, even an empty one is a war crime surely, same as the Palestinian militants who stored weapons in empty UN schools. That is also ignored the generally disgusting behavior from the IDF in the way they treated these buildings, causing deliberate destruction like that.

the_syco

Rightwing wrote: »

Israel has lost the respect of the people of the world, but unfortunately not the leaders of the western world.

Israel cares not for the respect, and the leaders will probably need Israel for either cheap weapons, or intel.

=-=

Regards to the blockade. Blockade, and terrorists get rockets. No blockcade will probably mean more rockets. I say terrorists, as HAMAS ain't the only ones.

Rightwing wrote: »

You miss the point. Focus on civilians, not hamas.

Hope this helps.

And they do. But HAMAS seems to like shooting rockets from heavily populated areas. They also store rockets in schools.

Rightwing wrote: »

And what does Israel do? Play straight into Hamas' hands by killing innocent children randonly instead of attempting to seperate the fighters from the children. Granted they will suffer a lot of casualties, but that's the price of war.

The only option is for the civilians tell Isreal where the terrorists are.

wes wrote: »

Its amazing that Israeli National News, seem to almost always be the only news source posting various stories, that are not picked up anywhere else......., and are often directly contradicted by other news sources.....

Something hits Israel; not much of a newstory. Something hits Gaza, and you can be sure as hell it'll hit a civilian, as HAMAS never fires it's rockets from somewhere that there isn't loads of innocents.

wes

the_syco wrote: »

Something hits Israel; not much of a newstory. Something hits Gaza, and you can be sure as hell it'll hit a civilian, as HAMAS never fires it's rockets from somewhere that there isn't loads of innocents.

Yes, the same old excuse, the IDF kill civilians and its someone else fault.

FFS, care to try and explain this one away:

Witness to a shelling: first-hand account of deadly strike on Gaza port

There is a deafening explosion, then a second. Four children are dead. Four survivors reach the safety of our hotel

The first projectile hit the sea wall of Gaza City's little harbour just after four o'clock. As the smoke from the explosion thinned, four figures could be seen running, ragged silhouettes, legs pumping furiously along the wall. Even from a distance of 200 metres, it was obvious that three of them were children.

Jumping off the harbour wall, they turned on to the beach, attempting to cross the short distance to the safety of the Al-Deira hotel, base for many of the journalists covering the Gaza conflict.

They waved and shouted at the watching journalists as they passed a little collection of brightly coloured beach tents, used by bathers in peacetime.

It was there that the second shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: "They are only children."

In the space of 40 seconds, four boys who had been playing hide and seek among fishermen's shacks on the wall were dead. They were aged between seven and 11; two were named Mohammad, one Zakaria and the youngest Ahed. All were members of the extended Bakr family.

Enough with the blaming everyone but the IDF, we have seen deliberate attacks on civilians numerous times, and its gotten beyond silly to pretend otherwise.

SeaBreezes

tayto lover wrote: »

IDF target three refugee camps in Gaza today.
The murders continue.

Oh no, more children.

Shame on Israel. Horrific attacks :-(

Nodin

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Well at least the Palestinian women can get some experience of a progressive and tolerant country, before going back to their own land where they're treated like second class citizens by their own people.

Really? You're sure on that?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4043299.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4274400.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/19/AR2007121902681.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2007121902748

FTA69

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Well at least the Palestinian women can get some experience of a progressive and tolerant country, before going back to their own land where they're treated like second class citizens by their own people.

You're a disgrace. Go and stand for a day at a checkpoint like Qalqilya, Hebron or Qalandia and see what some of these people have to go through on a daily basis. They are people by the way, not abstract shapes for you to be mad at.

It's gas like, many of those like the poster above will call people "bleeding heart liberals" etc etc and act as if they have this ultra-realistic grasp of the situation on the ground when in reality they're usually right-wing nerds who find it easy to dehumanise people from the safety of their laptop.

Gringo180

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Hamas broke the ceasefire even before it was officially due to end. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183847#.U-RalPldV8E

These idiots are obviously willing to put people at risk for their own twisted agenda.

If I called to your house and just walk into it and declared that the kitchen and sitting room was now mine because my ancestors lived there thousands of years ago would that be okay? Would you fighting me back and trying to reclaim these rooms back be a twisted agenda??

Manach

wes wrote: »

Operating from a school, even an empty one is a war crime surely, same as the Palestinian militants who stored weapons in empty UN schools.

AFAIR from a course on such crimes, Civilian property rights have a small measure of protection but in the vast majority of incidents this is ignored. As well on the one hand UN treaties give additional protection to their structures and workers but on the other the International criminal court does not have any jurisdiction in regards Palestinian territories. To be honest, I'm puzzled on that one myself.

BlaasForRafa

Gringo180 wrote: »

If I called to your house and just walk into it and declared that the kitchen and sitting room was now mine because my ancestors lived there thousands of years ago would that be okay? Would you fighting me back and trying to reclaim these rooms back be a twisted agenda??

Save your whataboutery for someone else.

Gringo180

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Save your whataboutery for someone else.

You see the only idiots here are the Israeli's, this is a simple conflict to fix. Withdraw from Palestinian land and lift the siege and let them have a state of there own and then there will be peace. No justice no peace.

irishpancake

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not excusing what Israel is doing, but it's the Israeli way. Everybody knows that, including Hamas. Israel have always been disposed towards extreme retaliation because they are hated throughout the Arab world, and have enemies on all sides of them.




The suicide bombings have abated, not because Islamic fundamentalists have suddenly developed a crisis of conscience, but only because Israeli security is so tight that it isn't worth their while anymore.

Of course.....have you ever wondered just why Israel is hated throughout the Arab world??

Could it have anything at all to do with this famous "Israeli way", you mention?

Would it not be wonderful if Israel decided to change it's ways??

Like not responding in a way which maximising civilian deaths??

Like allowing safe passage out of a war zone to non-belligerent civilians, particularly women and children??

Like they are supposed to do, under International Law, being the occupying power.

This imposes certain responsibilities on occupying powers, in relation to civilian non belligerents, some of which include safe passage, provision of food and water, proportionate responses to attacks, free passage out of areas under attack, etc, etc.

Would it not also be a most welcome change if Israel engaged in real negotiations, withdrew to their Internationally accepted borders, lifted the siege and embargo on Gava, allowed the people incarcerated in the open air prison free passage and the freedom to trade and engage in mutually advantageous economic activities.

Wouldn't it be great if Israel behaved in a civilised manner??

seanaway

Gringo180 wrote: »

You see the only idiots here are the Israeli's, this is a simple conflict to fix. Withdraw from Palestinian land and lift the siege and let them have a state of there own and then there will be peace. No justice no peace.

Eh...??? Why aren't you addressing the issue of Egypt and its own blockade of Gaza??

As usual your posts are anti-Israeli and 1 sided.

Gringo180

seanaway wrote: »

Eh...??? Why aren't you addressing the issue of Egypt and its own blockade of Gaza??

As usual your posts are anti-Israeli and 1 sided.

My posts are anti Israeli policy, a big difference to what you are insinuating. Is this the same Egypt who are bankrolled by the U.S? Dont make me laugh.

the_syco

wes wrote: »

Yes, the same old excuse, the IDF kill civilians and its someone else fault.

FFS, care to try and explain this one away

I'm not going to bother. I support the shelling of the tunnels close to Israel, but I'm not going to defend the indefensible, and long range shelling is usually just that.

irishpancake wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if Israel behaved in a civilised manner??

Ah here, lets stay on the possible bits, such as the withdrawal from lands they have invaded by force. If ye ask them to behave like civilised adults instead of kids that got their toys taken off them, they'll pull the anti-semite card on ye...

irishpancake

Gringo180 wrote: »

My posts are anti Israeli policy, a big difference to what you are insinuating. Is this the same Egypt who are bankrolled by the U.S? Dont make me laugh.

Yeah, Egypt.........

which is a Military dictatorship, despite the young martyrs in Tahrir Square, the Arab Spring, their democratically elected President, now overthrown and replaced by a Junta, as before with Mubarak, and Sadat, willing allies of the US and Israel.

Democratically elected Morsi was Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is a constituent part...........

the US and Israel could not have this....

Egypt is essential to keeping Gaza imprisoned and under siege, democracy is expendable in this scenario, just like Israel, Europe and the US refused to accept Hamas as the elected representatives of the Palestinian people.

the_syco

irishpancake wrote: »

Egypt is essential to keeping Gaza imprisoned and under siege, democracy is expendable in this scenario, just like Israel, Europe and the US refused to accept Hamas as the elected representatives of the Palestinian people.

Was it the old government, the interim government, or the new government that had supplied Gaza in the past with anti-Israel "supplies"?

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

Was it the old government, the interim government, or the new government that had supplied Gaza in the past with anti-Israel "supplies"?

Seems it was the old government that supported HAMAS.

Madd Finn

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Came accross this today:A well-known Israeli politician and parliament member has branded Palestinians as terrorists, saying mothers of all Palestinians should also be killed during the ongoing Israeli assault on the besieged Gaza Strip, Daily Sabah reported.

Ayelet Shaked of the ultra-nationalist Jewish Home party called for the slaughter of Palestinian mothers who give birth to "little snakes."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," Shaked said, adding, "They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists.”
The remarks are considered as a call for genocide as she declared that all Palestinians are Israel's enemies and must be killed.

On Monday (July 7) Shaked quoted this on her Facebook page:

"Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."
The development comes as many officials from various countries have slammed Israel's airstrikes on the Gaza Strip. The Turkish prime minister is the latest to condemn the offensive, accusing Israel of massacring the Palestinians.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan has lashed out at Israel, saying it is committing state terrorism against the Palestinians in the region. Speaking in parliament, he also questioned the world’s silence toward Tel Aviv’s ongoing atrocities.


Charming Lady. (Not!!) and shes in government. Pots and kettles jump to mind...

She wasn't at the time, but she is now. She's Israel's Justice Minister!!!!

Only democracy in the middle east, you know.

end of the road

Madd Finn wrote: »

She wasn't at the time, but she is now. She's Israel's Justice Minister!!!!

Only democracy in the middle east, you know.

democracy my backside. they are no better then places like saudi

seanaway

end of the road wrote: »

democracy my backside. they are no better then places like saudi

Only if you discount that everyone gets to vote in Israel in free and fair elections.