New Horizon Mall

kerryked

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No offence, but read through the thread. It's dead in the water and it's all in the info as to why in there.

Literally, the building is dead, and in the water :rolleyes:

zulutango

I wonder is the Council even hatching a plan for it. I know they don't own it, but surely there should be some negotiation with the owner to get it sorted out. He hardly wants it lying idle either. They could look at buying it, or just encourage the developer to do something else there. The current situation suits nobody.

tonyheaney

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No offence, but read through the thread. It's dead in the water and it's all in the info as to why in there.

No real need to as you just answered it for me negating the need to rad the whole thread.

zulutango

zulutango wrote: »

I wonder is the Council even hatching a plan for it. I know they don't own it, but surely there should be some negotiation with the owner to get it sorted out. He hardly wants it lying idle either. They could look at buying it, or just encourage the developer to do something else there. The current situation suits nobody.

Here's the latest. Not sure if converting it to office blocks is the best way forward.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/212460/new-plans-for-limerick-s-parkway-valley-site.html

Berty

I declined to comment on Facebook because people are simply more difficult on Facebook.

Somebody is annoyed they mentioned M&S. M&S was the anchor and they closed 2 shops in Dublin(Dun Laoighre I remember anyway) and touted they were moving jobs to their biggest Irish store and a Flagship in Limerick so no job losses as such. Hence why it gets mentioned I would guess. Also It's M&S and the council love a good M&S conversation.

Let's see the council say "Yeah, we've been talking to M&S since 1978(or something) and when they finally agreed to come here we blocked them"

We all know the council have the Opera centre which they want to be offices/residential/university etc but they're now saying they'd like the Horizon/Valley to be offices as well.

What happens when a big employer says "Yep, we'll take the Valley" because it's 40% complete. Will the council turn around and say "NO, you come to the Opera centre and if you don't like it we will refuse planning for the Valley and wave you off into the distance to open up shop in another city?"

wigsa100

Berty wrote: »

I declined to comment on Facebook because people are simply more difficult on Facebook.

Somebody is annoyed they mentioned M&S. M&S was the anchor and they closed 2 shops in Dublin(Dun Laoighre I remember anyway) and touted they were moving jobs to their biggest Irish store and a Flagship in Limerick so no job losses as such. Hence why it gets mentioned I would guess. Also It's M&S and the council love a good M&S conversation.

Let's see the council say "Yeah, we've been talking to M&S since 1978(or something) and when they finally agreed to come here we blocked them"

We all know the council have the Opera centre which they want to be offices/residential/university etc but they're now saying they'd like the Horizon/Valley to be offices as well.

What happens when a big employer says "Yep, we'll take the Valley" because it's 40% complete. Will the council turn around and say "NO, you come to the Opera centre and if you don't like it we will refuse planning for the Valley and wave you off into the distance to open up shop in another city?"

Great post. As I understand only the loans have been bought, so it's only if Sharma stops performing on the loans that anything can be done anyway. Certainly not going to be as straightforward a task for the Council as green lighting a load of offices being whipped up.

The eyesore will cost 1 million to flatten(yes, just to flatten back to nothing) in the first place which I doubt too many potential investors are going to be keen to fork out.

I almost laughed out loud when I read the quote from Leddin saying 'this ties perfectly into our 2030 plan'. Right, binning a project that would have created 1,000 permanent jobs in favour of more artists' impressions of derelict sites. We already have more than enough of them thank you very much.

By the way, in case anyone didn't know, Sharma offered to develop the Opera Centre into offices, which the Council rejected. So that was a double whammy of a cock up really. If they are planning on developing the Opera Centre themselves, it will ultimately cost them millions of euro that they could have saved.

Morons.

moleyv

wigsa100 wrote:

The eyesore will cost 1 million to flatten(yes, just to flatten back to nothing) in the first place which I doubt too many potential investors are going to be keen to fork out.

A million to knock or get back to green. I'd be surprised if a million would get it green.

Even to knock, the strongest parts are up. Lift shafts and basements are reinforced to hell. Is the steel useable, weathering and connections designed to order? Unlikely, and how much would it cost to recycle.

There might need to be an environmental impact assessment and appropriate assessment about where all the underground water build up would go. I'd be very worried about pumping such huge quantities into a sensitive habitat.

Its a nightmare, and to be honest, Nothing should be built there unless it is very low density.

Although I hear a monorail is going to be put in to handle all the commuters to their new offices overlooking a botched retail jungle.

I don't know how it was given permission with the traffic modelling.

tonyheaney

Berty wrote: »

I declined to comment on Facebook because people are simply more difficult on Facebook.

Somebody is annoyed they mentioned M&S. M&S was the anchor and they closed 2 shops in Dublin(Dun Laoighre I remember anyway) and touted they were moving jobs to their biggest Irish store and a Flagship in Limerick so no job losses as such. Hence why it gets mentioned I would guess. Also It's M&S and the council love a good M&S conversation.

Let's see the council say "Yeah, we've been talking to M&S since 1978(or something) and when they finally agreed to come here we blocked them"

We all know the council have the Opera centre which they want to be offices/residential/university etc but they're now saying they'd like the Horizon/Valley to be offices as well.

What happens when a big employer says "Yep, we'll take the Valley" because it's 40% complete. Will the council turn around and say "NO, you come to the Opera centre and if you don't like it we will refuse planning for the Valley and wave you off into the distance to open up shop in another city?"

Was M7S meant to move into the George when it was being gutted?

yankinlk

moleyv wrote: »

I don't know how it was given permission with the traffic modelling.

Traffic modelling? I'm sure they have the best man on it. Same fella got a gold star for working on the childers Rd retail entrance/exit.

zulutango

moleyv wrote: »

Its a nightmare, and to be honest, Nothing should be built there unless it is very low density.

It is a nightmare, yes, but why do you favour low over medium or high density?

moleyv

zulutango wrote:

It is a nightmare, yes, but why do you favour low over medium or high density?

I think the area is very sensitive for drainage.

I know SuDS has been mentioned, but that is for management of surface water. If the ground it is designed on in the first place needs to be natures sponge, attenuating more on it isn't a good idea.

Access really shouldn't be off that road either (depending on what goes there).

High density definitely isn't suitable. It would only contribute more to the donut effect.

The area is pretty well served by sports/recreation. So not sure that is the answer either.

Its a large land bank, and a mix of uses might be more appropriate.

I'm against retail there, the councils are merged, and people are complaining about a lot of things (probably with good reason), but at least they aren't competing for rates anymore. THAT was the death of our city.

The opera centre could be wonderful. Has anyone seen/been to Victoria Square in Belfast? That is what should be aspired to.

To be honest, the more I think of it, offices might not be the end of the world there, as long as there is some feasibility study into what space is required and do it in phases. No big expanses of tarmac unless its the heavily porous kind.

Require a staff mobility plan which provides little parking, and a shuttle bus into the centre in full bus lanes so staff would be forced live in the centre. Start drawing young out of town people into the city centre to live.

I probably don't know what is best for the site, despite having a deep understanding of these things. But a real master plan for the site should be tendered out to consultants. Its there a long time, I would have no issue with another few years being taken to come up with a decent plan.

Reputable Rog

I do not believe that M&S will ever come to Limerick nor do I believe they had any intention of doing so.
The announcement in 2013 was a smoke screen.
M&S had originally hoped to get in Manor West in Tralee which they deemed sufficent to serve Limerick.

Garry123

What is the preoccupation with M&S about? They are just another retailer. They DO NOT define a city.

ricimaki

Garry123 wrote: »

What is the preoccupation with M&S about? They are just another retailer. They DO NOT define a city.

They're seen as a more up-market retailer. Some people would go out of there way to go to one. Limerick city needs a few more shops like that.

kerryked

ricimaki wrote: »

They're seen as a more up-market retailer. Some people would go out of there way to go to one. Limerick city needs a few more shops like that.

Better than Dealz anyway sure..

Garry123

I'm well aware of how M&S are perceived, I just don't get the obsession. To me they sell over priced groceries and average quality clothing. If we are going to attract another over priced, over rated British retailer then go for Harrods and f**k the begrudgers.

wingnut

Garry123 wrote: »

I'm well aware of how M&S are perceived, I just don't get the obsession. To me they sell over priced groceries and average quality clothing. If we are going to attract another over priced, over rated British retailer then go for Harrods and f**k the begrudgers.

If someone really wants to go to one Clonmel is an hour away. I really do not see the obsession with M&S.

marno21

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I do not believe that M&S will ever come to Limerick nor do I believe they had any intention of doing so.
The announcement in 2013 was a smoke screen.
M&S had originally hoped to get in Manor West in Tralee which they deemed sufficent to serve Limerick.

I had a good LOL at this.

I live 30 minutes from Tralee and reguarly drive the extra 45 minutes to Limerick to shop there. The idea that people would drive to Tralee to Manor West for M&S is funny.

wigsa100

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I do not believe that M&S will ever come to Limerick nor do I believe they had any intention of doing so.
The announcement in 2013 was a smoke screen.
M&S had originally hoped to get in Manor West in Tralee which they deemed sufficent to serve Limerick.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know someone who was working on the project and they had committed to doing so.

wigsa100

moleyv wrote: »

High density definitely isn't suitable. It would only contribute more to the donut effect.

The only thing that talk of a donut effect has done to Limerick is kill projects that had the potential to make the place better. The donut effect is unavoidable while the city is a in the state it is.

Where would you plan on putting office space for 500 workers in the city centre at the moment? Where are these people going to park their cars?

As I mentioned in another thread, if you want to put 500 office workers into the city then you're going to have to level or convert a few buildings to make room for car parks.

zulutango

wigsa100 wrote: »

The only thing that talk of a donut effect has done to Limerick is kill projects that had the potential to make the place better. The donut effect is unavoidable while the city is a in the state it is.

Can you expand on this?

wigsa100 wrote: »

Where would you plan on putting office space for 500 workers in the city centre at the moment? Where are these people going to park their cars?

As I mentioned in another thread, if you want to put 500 office workers into the city then you're going to have to level or convert a few buildings to make room for car parks.

There's a hell of a lot of land that is prime for development in the city centre. It can be developed for office, retail, residential and car parks, and realistically it must be developed for all of these.

Reputable Rog

wigsa100 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you're wrong. I know someone who was working on the project and they had committed to doing so.

Well that's good to know. Maybe they'll come someday wih their overpriced, over salted food.

dave 27

One area in the city that seems to have avoided all rejuvenation is the area behind the granary and Smyths bar, there's a couple of half built buildings, one or two falling down and if my memory serves me correctly just a big space where cars park. Surely this is the prime location for development? Land must be worth nothing there

iguana

M&S not coming here is actually just weird. I was walking down Childers Road on Friday and traffic was at a standstill in each direction toward the retail park. Why? Because The Range, a homewears and garden shop was opening up and on a normal work day so many people wanted to go there that traffic was badly impacted. People in Limerick have, on average, a lot of disposable income. An M&S store here would probably be insanely profitable.

Special Circumstances

iguana wrote: »

M&S not coming here is actually just weird. I was walking down Childers Road on Friday and traffic was at a standstill in each direction toward the retail park. Why? Because The Range, a homewears and garden shop was opening up and on a normal work day so many people wanted to go there that traffic was badly impacted. People in Limerick have, on average, a lot of disposable income. An M&S store here would probably be insanely profitable.

The ongoing work of the shady paramilitary group Armed Limerick Against Ready Meals is doing sterling work in keeping out their "over salted food". Next steps in the campaign will see them release thousands of slugs in all pre existing limerick outlets selling "over salted food".

Or something.

ongarboy

marno21 wrote: »

I had a good LOL at this.

I live 30 minutes from Tralee and reguarly drive the extra 45 minutes to Limerick to shop there. The idea that people would drive to Tralee to Manor West for M&S is funny.

Maybe you wouldn't but some people will drive to where they want to shop if the distance is considered reasonable and the store they want isn't available locally. Many Killarney and South Kerry residents would drive to Tralee to shop at Debenhams or TK Maxx (although they have since opened in Killarney too) and likewise Tralee/North Kerry residents drove to Killarney for M&S. I understand some Limerick residents drive to Tralee to shop at Iceland supermarket as well even if the food has melted on the drive back!:)

I think it's not about an obsession with M&S per se but the fact that such an opening would create 100s of jobs ( I think 250 was mooted for the proposed Limerick store?) and which is why their opening would be so welcome in that regard. A lot of people like their distinct food offerings as well...their crumpets are a personal favorite for me!:)

wigsa100

zulutango wrote: »

Can you expand on this?



There's a hell of a lot of land that is prime for development in the city centre. It can be developed for office, retail, residential and car parks, and realistically it must be developed for all of these.

Horizon Mall would have created 1,000 jobs. That would mean 1,000 more people with money to spend all over Limerick, in the city and outside it. I had a conversation with a developer a couple of years ago who said you couldn't pay him to develop a large scale commercial project in the city. It's too run down and not consumer friendly. He walked through the city centre for the first time in years and couldn't believe how run down the place was.

Fair enough, the land is primed for development, but nobody wants to develop because the city is in a state. Don't get me wrong, I'm about to move into the city centre and like it, but I'm not looking at it through rose tinted glasses. It is what it is and it isn't nice.

Until the Council make the city an attractive place for commercial investment, nothing is going to change. We had a massive commercial project, fully funded and ready to go, which was essentially sabotaged at the cost of a thousand jobs for fear of the 'donut effect'. Did the Council have a back up plan which would replace the 1,000 lost jobs? Of course not! They point to the 2030 plan as if it justifies everything being kicked down the road. They seem to think when we reach the 1st of January 2030 everything will be spectacular all of a sudden.

While we might get one or two small office units in the current situation, it's not going to be anything significant. The less talk of a donut effect we have, the less likely we are to butcher another thousand jobs.

Keep in mind that Limerick has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

Poxyshamrock

iguana wrote: »

I was walking down Childers Road on Friday and traffic was at a standstill in each direction toward the retail park. Why? Because The Range, a homewears and garden shop was opening up and on a normal work day so many people wanted to go there that traffic was badly impacted.

Yeah but that's the day it opened. I guarantee you that the traffic won't be that bad in 4 weeks. Everyone likes to visit a new store shortly after it opens.

bazz26

Traffic has always been bad around that retail park since it opened over 10 years ago. Go up there any Saturday afternoon and see the traffic backed up the whole way down onto the Ballysimon roundabout. Another example of bad planning at a time where bringing in revenue from rent and rates was more important than managing traffic properly in and out of there.

iguana

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Yeah but that's the day it opened. I guarantee you that the traffic won't be that bad in 4 weeks. Everyone likes to visit a new store shortly after it opens.

Obviously, but the queues for it were insane. It's like a more upmarket Wilko! In a city where people didn't have plenty of money a homewares store opening up would not have that effect. And every year come the first of November Childers Road and Ballysimon Rd are all at a crawl on the approach to the retail park, and it's like that for nearly 2 full months. And then again on the 26th of December seeing as how we've adopted British style sales. But we don't need anecdotes about shops being busy to know there is a lot of money in Limerick. It's proven that our disposable income is close to the highest in the country. A lot of people have a lot of cash to spend in Limerick, a popular shop will be highly profitable.