New Horizon Mall

Special Circumstances

ongarboy wrote: »

It will still have a bunch of restaurants as any mall/shopping centre would have...just maybe not in a foodcourt style format. I can see Nandos, Eddie Rockets and probably Gourmet Burger Kitchen (GBK) as tenants along with Starbucks. Wagamama and Milano's too maybe?

They're all sh1t apparently! I was wondering what the alternatives are.

Pumpkinseeds

Why can't they do something in Limerick city centre like the Eyre Square Centre in Galway? It has 60 shops, that people actually want, and has no end of additional shops, bars, cafes in the vicinity. People will go into a city centre if they have an incentive to.

vkid

The eyre square centre is terrible imo. It's just a bigger version of Arthur s quay. Shop selection is not good either .

That's the last thing limerick needs

Pumpkinseeds

vkid wrote: »

The eyre square centre is terrible imo. It's just a bigger version of Arthur s quay. Shop selection is not good either .

That's the last thing limerick needs

How is it even remotely like Arthurs Quay? It has a Dunnes, Penneys, New Look and lots more shops, all of which are very popular, all under one roof. Arthur's Quay is all food court on the first floor and bugger all on the ground floor. I only ever go to Tesco or use the toilets there. While the Crescent has a lot more choice than the city centre, the place is like a sauna and isn't pleasant to shop in.

Berty

I'm in Galway now and heading to the Eyre square shopping centre soon for work. Parking is expensive difficult and annoying in there(can't park on certain floors and different floors are differently priced at different times thanks to qpark). I think the layout is bad if you don't know the centre.

Should you wish to get out onto williamsgate street from the ground floor(is it ground nobody seems to know) then you've to walk to a dead end with an escalator pointing the other way(so you can't really see it) to go up to go out.

New look is huge compared to limerick and penneys is fine and big. Burger King can draw people in as well. Dunnes is like Harvey's quay in limerick. It's not a big Dunnes but has enough and constantly busy.

I don't particularly like the Eyre square centre nor do I Arthur's quay. The horizon mall will be modern so should be built fresh with not as many restrictions like a city centre would force. Arthur's quay had to be squeezed into a block area and Eyre square has old battlement walls in there so only so much you can do.

vkid

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

How is it even remotely like Arthurs Quay? It has a Dunnes, Penneys, New Look and lots more shops, all of which are very popular, all under one roof. Arthur's Quay is all food court on the first floor and bugger all on the ground floor. I only ever go to Tesco or use the toilets there. While the Crescent has a lot more choice than the city centre, the place is like a sauna and isn't pleasant to shop in.

Its very alike, but like I said its bigger. Its a terrible shopping centre imo. I'd actually take the crescent over Eyre Square any day. There is nothing in there I long for..mobile phone shops, chemists, poor enough selection of restaurants, shoe shops, clothes shops etc. Nothing of note in there at all.

But whatever does it for you..

Pumpkinseeds

vkid wrote: »

Its very alike, but like I said its bigger. Its a terrible shopping centre imo. I'd actually take the crescent over Eyre Square any day. There is nothing in there I long for..mobile phone shops, chemists, poor enough selection of restaurants, shoe shops, clothes shops etc. Nothing of note in there at all.

But whatever does it for you..

Well, regardless of what either of us think, Eyre Square centre does a hell of a lot more trade than Arthur's Quay will ever see.

Pumpkinseeds

Beer Baron wrote: »

I'm in Galway now and heading to the Eyre square shopping centre soon for work. Parking is expensive difficult and annoying in there(can't park on certain floors and different floors are differently priced at different times thanks to qpark). I think the layout is bad if you don't know the centre.

Should you wish to get out onto williamsgate street from the ground floor(is it ground nobody seems to know) then you've to walk to a dead end with an escalator pointing the other way(so you can't really see it) to go up to go out.

New look is huge compared to limerick and penneys is fine and big. Burger King can draw people in as well. Dunnes is like Harvey's quay in limerick. It's not a big Dunnes but has enough and constantly busy.

I don't particularly like the Eyre square centre nor do I Arthur's quay. The horizon mall will be modern so should be built fresh with not as many restrictions like a city centre would force. Arthur's quay had to be squeezed into a block area and Eyre square has old battlement walls in there so only so much you can do.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to have the equivalent of an out of town retail park within a city centre, if you follow me.:D Eyre Square and Arthur's Quay probably aren't the best examples of that.

Berty

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to have the equivalent of an out of town retail park within a city centre, if you follow me.:D Eyre Square and Arthur's Quay probably aren't the best examples of that.

Victoria centre in Belfast is probably this islands better example as it doesn't feel like your in a shopping centre but has good stores and amenities.

Special Circumstances

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that it's possible to have the equivalent of an out of town retail park within a city centre, if you follow me.:D Eyre Square and Arthur's Quay probably aren't the best examples of that.

Opera Lane worked out nicely in Cork - I like how it linked the open space of Emmet Place and the surrounding old buldings onto Patrick Street. Small example I know.

Jofspring

Something like Opera Lane in Cork needs to happen in the city centre. It's needed to happen for a long time but nothing has been done for the last 10 years to attract businesses they have like that. Out of town centres can't be continuously stopped in the hope that one day something happens in town.

Some people still like to go to town over a shopping centre. Around the summer and Christmas I make a lot of visits to town over the shopping centres.

Pumpkinseeds

I haven't been to Belfast or the Cork shopping centre either so I'll have to take your word for it.:) I think there can be a happy medium for everybody. I only go into Limerick city centre a couple of times a month but I dread to think what the place will become if business continues to be diverted to out of town retail parks. It would become a no go area eventually if the larger stores decided to close, which they inevitably would if their business continued to decline.

Mr.H

Limerick City Center needs to stop blaming what's happening outside the city centre and start blaming what's NOT happening in the city center

Cookiemunster

Mr.H wrote: »

Limerick City Center needs to stop blaming what's happening outside the city centre and start blaming what's NOT happening in the city center

While the old City Council didn't exactly cover itself in glory over the years, it cannot be argued that the County Council allowing multiple retail units to be built just outside the city boundary didn't have a negative affect on the city center. It was policy of the County Council to draw revenue from the city out to the the shopping centers in the subarbs.

My main problem though with this development is that I think it will have a negative affect on both the city center and the current out of town centers. There simply isn't a demand for it.

vkid

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Well, regardless of what either of us think, Eyre Square centre does a hell of a lot more trade than Arthur's Quay will ever see.

But its bigger, it would do and to be fair the rest of the Galway options for shopping are not great either, nothing particularly there that isn't in Limerick. Except M+S which is terrible there....one of the worst M+S I've been in.

Cookiemunster

The owners of the Crescent SC have launched a judicial review of ABPs decision to grant permission for the Horizon Mall. It'll be mentioned in the High Court on July 22.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/judicial-review-casts-doubts-on-horizon-mall-in-limerick-1-6793288

In my view this is never going to be built.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The owners of the Crescent SC have launched a judicial review of ABPs decision to grant permission for the Horizon Mall. It'll be mentioned in the High Court on July 22.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/judicial-review-casts-doubts-on-horizon-mall-in-limerick-1-6793288

In my view this is never going to be built.

CSC is only protecting its own interests, they charge high rates as it is and with M&S planned for Horizon would impact them in bringing higher profile shops to their center.

The Cush

Any update on this? It was to be mentioned in the High Court 2 weeks ago, nothing the papers.

Reputable Rog

The Cush wrote: »

Any update on this? It was to be mentioned in the High Court 2 weeks ago, nothing the papers.

Mentioned, only means agreeing a date for hearing.
Horizon Mall is dead in the water. Lyle Lanley is probably eyeing up his next mono rail project at the mo.

Cookiemunster

The Cush wrote: »

Any update on this? It was to be mentioned in the High Court 2 weeks ago, nothing the papers.

Next date is 28/10/2015 http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/common.processNavigationButton
ABPs own completion date will be passed before there an outcome in this case. It's not going to be built.

pigtown

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Next date is 28/10/2015 http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/common.processNavigationButton
ABPs own completion date will be passed before there an outcome in this case. It's not going to be built.

Does anyone know what happens if it's not complete by then? Surely the options are;

Keep going and finish it
Stop working and leave it to rot
Knock it completely

The only likely choice is number 1, and if so then what's the point of a deadline?

Cookiemunster

pigtown wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens if it's not complete by then? Surely the options are;

Keep going and finish it
Stop working and leave it to rot
Knock it completely

The only likely choice is number 1, and if so then what's the point of a deadline?

They can't keep going and finish it if they don't have planning permission. The owners will have to reapply for PP, which the council will again deny and they would then have to appeal denial that to ABP. That process would take another 2 years.
Option 2 is the current status quo. Work stopped 5-6 years ago and hasn't restarted since.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They can't keep going and finish it if they don't have planning permission. The owners will have to reapply for PP, which the council will again deny and they would then have to appeal denial that to ABP. That process would take another 2 years.
Option 2 is the current status quo. Work stopped 5-6 years ago and hasn't restarted since.

The thing is that it's not in the council's interests for it to be left idle either. Someone is going to have to knock heads together and come up with a solution acceptable to all parties. Compromise will be necessary.

I don't buy the notion that the development is necessarily a bad thing for the city. It's only about a mile from the centre, so with an improved transport link it could actually benefit the centre. The council would have to get creative as to how they'd provide that link though, as there are many challenges.

Reputable Rog

zulutango wrote: »

The thing is that it's not in the council's interests for it to be left idle either. Someone is going to have to knock heads together and come up with a solution acceptable to all parties. Compromise will be necessary.

I don't buy the notion that the development is necessarily a bad thing for the city. It's only about a mile from the centre, so with an improved transport link it could actually benefit the centre. The council would have to get creative as to how they'd provide that link though, as there are many challenges.

Cable cars ?

pigtown

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They can't keep going and finish it if they don't have planning permission. The owners will have to reapply for PP, which the council will again deny and they would then have to appeal denial that to ABP.

If I were him I'd plough on and apply for retention when I was done. He's a rich man but he can't sit around and risk losing his investment. I mean if he can't get permission to finish it then who on earth is going to buy the place?

zulutango wrote: »

The thing is that it's not in the council's interests for it to be left idle either. Someone is going to have to knock heads together and come up with a solution acceptable to all parties. Compromise will be necessary.

Exactly. Something will have to give. Personally I'd like to see the site developed as a tourist attraction based on the Eden Project in Cornwall, redeveloping the shell of the building into huge hanging gardens and the rest of the Groody Valley into an agricultural showcase, inspired by The Golden Vale.
Unlikely to attract enough funding to become a reality though.

zulutango wrote: »

I don't buy the notion that the development is necessarily a bad thing for the city. It's only about a mile from the centre, so with an improved transport link it could actually benefit the centre. The council would have to get creative as to how they'd provide that link though, as there are many challenges.

While I'm totally opposed to the centre, you're right here. A well thought out transport system could easily connect the various shopping centres in the suburbs with the city centre, allowing people to park at one of the centres, have a nose around and store their bags in the car, pop into town for some food/more shopping, and back out again.

Treepole

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Cable cars ?

Monorail

The Cush

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Next date is 28/10/2015 http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/common.processNavigationButton

Court Details
Plaintiffs - SOUTH WEST REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTRE PROMOTION, ASSOCATION LTD & STAPLEYSIDE COMPANY
Record Number - 2015 282 JR
Title - SOUTH WEST REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTRE PROMOTION & ANOR -V- AN BORD PLEANALA

Court Lists - 28/10/2015 COMMERCIAL LIST MOTIONS / INTERIM MOTIONS

http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/case_detail.show?sessionID=1080108955&yearNo=2015&recordNo=282&processType=JR

Cookiemunster

pigtown wrote: »

If I were him I'd plough on and apply for retention when I was done. He's a rich man but he can't sit around and risk losing his investment. I mean if he can't get permission to finish it then who on earth is going to buy the place?

This isn't a backgarden extension we're talking about. You can't just build a multi million euro development without planning permission. Back in 2006 Jim Mansfield had to demolish his partly-built €50m convention centre at Citywest after ABP decided to refuse permission for a second time.
If the time runs out and the permission is refused on a second application, it will have to be demolished.

iguana

I live right by this monstrosity and deeply hope that it never sees the light of day as a shopping centre. As much of an awful eyesore that it is, it's no worse than the huge empty units at Park Point, the empty units at Parkway Retail Park, the large empty unit at Childers Rd Retail Park, etc. The whole area went way past over-saturation in terms of shopping units many years ago and if this shopping centre goes ahead it might be a success but it will destroy the existing retail areas completely. Imo, an abandoned building site is less ugly than the abandoned retail parks and shopping centres that would result from it.

What needs to happened is that the lift shafts and other bits of building are knocked and the underground car parks filled in. The latter are of particular concern as they have been filled with water for years now and it's only a matter of time before someone drowns in there. As well as that, the Parkway Valley is an extremely important rainwater drainage site and building on it just pushes the water further downstream. Between the building work there, Park Point, many of UL's buildings, water is being pushed further down the Shannon playing a part in the flooding of areas in Kings Island and Corbally that have never experienced flooding before 2014. It's out and out insanity, both economic and environmental, that anything other than demolition is being planned for that site.

zulutango

iguana wrote: »

Between the building work there, Park Point, many of UL's buildings, water is being pushed further down the Shannon playing a part in the flooding of areas in Kings Island and Corbally that have never experienced flooding before 2014. It's out and out insanity, both economic and environmental, that anything other than demolition is being planned for that site.

I have never heard the above given as reasons for the flooding of Corbally or King's Island. Is it a qualified opinion?

As far as I know, there was no official report carried out, but a detailed enough study was written by Martin Kay about it. He suggests that the flood in 2014 may have been caused by high tides and high winds coupled with the release of huge amounts of water from Ardnacrusha just as the tide was highest. The ESB refused to release their water release data so his theory couldn't be verified. Conversely the November 2009 flood was more than likely caused by the ESB not releasing enough water at Ardnacrusha in the weeks leading up to it.