New Horizon Mall

yankinlk

i fail to see how refusal of planning is hailed as a victory by anyone other than biased competing traders. its not like ground was not broken already. the site was in progress, and now we have an enormous eyesore.
is there any plan to address this? tear it down or build it, but leave it in limbo is seriously bad. is there a single route into the city that is not an eyesore? best view is the bypass...

did the project not have permission to be started? is there a list of genuine reasons why it was refused this time?

Poxyshamrock

yankinlk wrote: »

i fail to see how refusal of planning is hailed as a victory by anyone other than biased competing traders. its not like ground was not broken already. the site was in progress, and now we have an enormous eyesore.
is there any plan to address this? tear it down or build it, but leave it in limbo is seriously bad. is there a single route into the city that is not an eyesore? best view is the bypass...

did the project not have permission to be started? is there a list of genuine reasons why it was refused this time?

Oh yeah, the Ennis Road is such a dump! :rolleyes:

Insect Overlord

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Oh yeah, the Ennis Road is such a dump! :rolleyes:

In fairness, apart from Tesco, the Coonagh Cross site is almost as bad as the Parkway Valley.

mitresize5

In all the conversations about out of town/in town/opera centres/cresent extensions the one thing that keeps baffling me is the obsession with Marks and Spensers .... its like a department store that's demographic is half way between Pennies and BT is the white knight riding to the rescue of Limerick City,

I cant get me head around it at all

Kess73

mitresize5 wrote: »

In all the conversations about out of town/in town/opera centres/cresent extensions the one thing that keeps baffling me is the obsession with Marks and Spensers .... its like a department store that's demographic is half way between Pennies and BT is the white knight riding to the rescue of Limerick City,

I cant get me head around it at all

M&S coming to Limerick would be a good thing, especially if they were to open a store of the scale that they had planned to open in the Horizon Mall ( What they had planned for was going to be their second biggest store in Ireland, and it would have been their biggest store in Munster by some distance), as it would create jobs, both primary and secondary, and it would bring in people from outside of Limerick city ( Their stores in Clonmel, Cork etc are very good examples of how they bring in the sort of numbers that have a positive knock on effect on the footfall for the surrounding areas.) into the vicinity


But they are obviously not a fix for the state (in terms of retail and services) that Limerick has been let get into over the past decade. M&S coming to Limerick would be a good thing, but would only be one step in the right direction if we are talking retail only in terms of a city plan.

I know there are other non retail related changes that the city needs, and those things would have the potential to have a massive positive impact, but I am only talking retail in this post due to the M&S/ Horizon Mall topic.

vkid

mitresize5 wrote: »

In all the conversations about out of town/in town/opera centres/cresent extensions the one thing that keeps baffling me is the obsession with Marks and Spensers .... its like a department store that's demographic is half way between Pennies and BT is the white knight riding to the rescue of Limerick City,

I cant get me head around it at all

I am lost myself on that one.. I have never understood the fascination with the place, but might depend on the size of them as well. The one in liffey valley has some nice food, didn't see anything else of note...but the one in Galway is totally laughable. Your average Lidl is as big.

squonk

Speaking as somebody new to Limerick I think that the city center has been utterly ruined by building shopping centers outside the center area. Say what you like but there isn't all that much choice in the city center. Yes there are the BTs and a good few clothes shops but the situation would be far better if some redevelopment within the center had been considered.

As a non car owner it's a pain in the hole having to head out to the cresent for some decent shopping. I don't get the obsession with far out shopping centers when there's a whole existing city center that could be redeveloped and which would invigorate the city. It's not rocket science. The experiment has failed. Back to the drawing board and some common sense.

damienirel

Congrats to Limerick Co. for being corrupt and as short sighted as we've come to expect.
And think of all those people that will be saved from having to get up and go to work instead of the dole, major pain in the backside averted. :-)

damienirel

"We're dealing with all the vagaries of a planning system that is shrouded in mystery. We'll just have to make a judgment."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/belfast-developer-suneil-sharma-still-hopes-for-80m-limerick-mall-green-light-30535411.html

Kess73

squonk wrote: »

Speaking as somebody new to Limerick I think that the city center has been utterly ruined by building shopping centers outside the center area. Say what you like but there isn't all that much choice in the city center. Yes there are the BTs and a good few clothes shops but the situation would be far better if some redevelopment within the center had been considered.

As a non car owner it's a pain in the hole having to head out to the cresent for some decent shopping. I don't get the obsession with far out shopping centers when there's a whole existing city center that could be redeveloped and which would invigorate the city. It's not rocket science. The experiment has failed. Back to the drawing board and some common sense.

Keep an eye on local media over a 12 month period. Without fail every year there will be three or four "stories" about how a one massive development or another is on the brink of being built in the city centre.

As for the out of town shopping centres, well the only one of any real note is the Crescent Shopping centre. All the rest are small and/or in a bad way. The Crescent Shopping centre opened in 1973, so it is not as though the powers that be have not have had the time to come up with a coherant and achieveable long term plan for the city centre that actually happens.

At present the city is undergoing through the latest great plan to modernise and improve it, but have a feeling that come this time next year and the yeat after that we will still see the number of city centre businesses that close continuing to rise, and we will still be hearing tales about how massive employment and massive development is just about to happen.


Too many people in positions who are trying to use empty soundbytes to raise their own profiles, and not enough by way of joined up thinking. Reminds me of how politics at national level is done here in Ireland. Most politicians seem to focus on what will get them elected, and what will give them a chance to be re-elected, but very few seem to want to try and set things in motion that will
benefit the country much further down the line.

There is an old Greek proverb that will be familar to anyone who studied philosophy that rings true for me.


A Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in


A bit corny? Maybe

But it does suggest the kind of mindset needed to make long term and sustainable positive change.

Cookiemunster

damienirel wrote: »

Congrats to Limerick Co. for being corrupt and as short sighted as we've come to expect.
And think of all those people that will be saved from having to get up and go to work instead of the dole, major pain in the backside averted. :-)

If they were corrupt then the would have given PP. Unless your saying someone paid the council officials to refuse it.

Also as others have said there are plenty of empty units in every retail park / shopping center in Limerick. Where are the retailers going to come from? If this gets built it will be another Jetland with M&S instead of Dunnes and loads of empty units.

damienirel

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Unless your saying someone paid the council officials to refuse it.

yep - money may not have changed hands but there are vested interests - you can be sure of that - not sure any retailers like to see competition.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If they were corrupt then the would have given PP.

Who said that they won't - give it time! LOL!

Comhrá

I drove up William St. yesterday morning looking for parking while on a short errand to Carew's shop. Eventually I found a parking space in upper Gerald Griffin St.

Between all the taxis, cars parked on the double yellow lines and in the loading bays, the traffic lights & the new pedestrian lights, the entire street was reduced to a virtual car-park. This mad obsession with widening the footpaths, having traffic-lights every 100 meters, and reduction of parking spaces is a cause of utter frustration for anyone driving a car and I for one, have reduced my trips into town to an absolute minimum as it's such a pita to drive around there.

Apart from any recession, simple car access to the city centre is to my mind the greatest reason the whole place has become so run-down and stagnant - and the drab, dreary appearance of much of the facias and shop fronts on O'Connell St. is another reason to avoid the area altogether.

Cookiemunster

tippman1 wrote: »

I drove up William St. yesterday morning looking for parking while on a short errand to Carew's shop. Eventually I found a parking space in upper Gerald Griffin St.

Between all the taxis, cars parked on the double yellow lines and in the loading bays, the traffic lights & the new pedestrian lights, the entire street was reduced to a virtual car-park. This mad obsession with widening the footpaths, having traffic-lights every 100 meters, and reduction of parking spaces is a cause of utter frustration for anyone driving a car and I for one, have reduced my trips into town to an absolute minimum as it's such a pita to drive around there.

Apart from any recession, simple car access to the city centre is to my mind the greatest reason the whole place has become so run-down and stagnant - and the drab, dreary appearance of much of the facias and shop fronts on O'Connell St. is another reason to avoid the area altogether.

In fairness the idea of wider footpaths / pedestrian crossings is to make the city center more pedestrian friendly. William St. was regularly down to one lane due to double parking before the footpaths were widened though. The problem here is the total lack of enforcement of traffic laws. Have a dedicated traffic warden patrolling only William St with a tow truck on call for a month and we'd soon see the double parking disappear.

Iranoutofideas

Those filthy black footpaths on O'Connell Street are a disgrace.

Cookiemunster

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Those filthy black footpaths on O'Connell Street are a disgrace.

O'Connell St is due to get the William St/Thomas St treatment as well. When is the question though as it was originally supposed to be done in 2012.

whatdoicare

I don't really go into the city centre much anymore, it's a pain in the arse paying for parking, the shops aren't buggy friendly and if it's in any way rainy or cold it's just an ordeal to go around it.
The crescent has pretty much all the same shops, is out of the weather and it's free to park, all the shops are one level and easy to get around with the babby. The one and only complaint I have is that the penneys is tiny- which is the one and only reason I go into town at all!

Anyway, my point is, they should really change the city centre into a tourist/chic/student area - forget about enticing locals as anyone with a kid is thinking like me. Town is not a practical place for families unless they do an eyre square type situation. They are going to be turning the Opera centre into an extension of UL, so they should use this opportunity and reinvent itself. Make it a younger city - more geared towards the younger person who doesn't usually have a car, doesn't care if it's raining too much, can stay out late and is fashion conscious. Vastly improve the bus routes going to city centre, set up night buses, more hostels in the area, huge garda presence to get rid of the druggie/Alco/scum bag element. I mean, look at Arthurs quay park, there was a spiegletent recently and it was surrounded by scummers and knarly looking people drinking openly - not very nice to see.
There should be more walking tours, bus tours and museums, they've made a good start but they need more! If they invested wisely they could make something spectacular and modern of Limerick city centre and have the outlets outside the city. something for everyone.

If you have students/tourists visiting and working in these shops, living in the same area and going out in the same area, it'll become pretty much self contained.

It's a terrible shame they've cancelled on the horizon centre, it'd be geared towards a different shopper and would bring very much needed revenue and jobs to the city. I hope they reconsider.

Well, that's my two cents anyway, for whatever it's worth.

Cookiemunster

Well this has been given the go ahead by ABP. I personally thing that it a ridiculous decision. Where are the tenants going to come from? Just look to the Castletroy SC and the Jetland SC to see how many empty units there are in the already built centers. Add to that the multiple empty units in the various retail parks.

bazz26

They must have an anchor tenant lined up at least, to make the completion viable?

Jofspring

Well Jetland has been it's own worst enemy from what I have heard. Dunnes have been looking for massive rent and not willing to budge at all. Look how many businesses have come and gone in there. You just have to look at how the Parkway has turned itself around with good management. It's gone from being a dump to a decent little shopping centre.

If they build a nice shopping centre with a few anchor tenants the other businesses will follow.

Berty

bazz26 wrote: »

They must have an anchor tenant lined up at least, to make the completion viable?

It's M&S surely. He has other developed sites with M&S and if we remember M&S defending closing their two east coast stores(one was Dun Laoighre) because they promised a flagship store in Limerick.

bazz26

Beer Baron wrote: »

It's M&S surely. He has other developed sites with M&S and if we remember M&S defending closing their two east coast stores(one was Dun Laoighre) because they promised a flagship store in Limerick.

I was thinking the same but didn't want to bring up the old reliable M&S link every time some retail development kicks off. They would need to have a big anchor tenant on board already for this development to start moving along again.

They could open the underground car park as a public swimming pool right now if they wanted. Will take some amount of work to put that site right though after about 7 or 8 years of being exposed to the elements. Traffic flow would have to be a major consideration too, the Parkway roundabout is bad enough as it is now without adding extra volume drawn to a M&S.

Cookiemunster

Interesting.

Limerick Leader @Limerick_Leader · 2h 2 hours ago

@LimerickCouncil says in statement it is "considering" Horizon Mall planning decision, notes that development must be complete by Aug '16..

If true is then any hope of construction being restarted and finished in 15 months?

Insect Overlord

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If true is then any hope of construction being restarted and finished in 15 months?

Only if they employ every out-of-work builder, electrician and plumber in the region...

Berty

At least they'll have a foodcourt which is fine by me.

Mc Love

Beer Baron wrote: »

At least they'll have a foodcourt which is fine by me.

a proper one!

Insect Overlord

Mc Love wrote: »

a proper one!

Let the Nandos rumours begin again. :pac:

Berty

From the Department of the Environment

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environ.ie%2Fen%2FPublications%2FDevelopmentandHousing%2FPlanning%2FFileDownLoad%2C1582%2Cen.pdf&ei=hewnVfzHJIPuarePgIgH&usg=AFQjCNFJW7k0HUqmHaYrMWW8nNzIRH2DZQ&sig2=-HXH8UKl6Gu-aADXPSMSpQ&bvm=bv.90491159,d.ZGU&cad=rja

How long does permission last? wrote:

The standard duration for planning permission
(permission or outline permission) is five years from the date of the grant of the permission by the planning authority or An Bord Pleanála. In certain circumstances the planning authority may extend the life of a planning permission but only where:
* substantial works have been carried out during the lifetime of the permission and

* the planning authority is satisfied that the development will be completed in reasonable time.

If a planning permission expires and you apply for a new permission for the same development, the planning authority may refuse permission or attach significantly different conditions. This can happen if planning policies or the requirements for the proper planning and sustainable development of the area have changed in the interim.

Maybe the work can be completed enough/in a timely manner(as per the above) that the planning is extended.

Berty

An File wrote: »

Let the Nandos rumours begin again. :pac:

Sbarro were going in there way back when. I know because I quoted for the job.

1huge1

I thought this project got canned like 6 months ago (or more), how it back in motion again?