Season 4, Episode 9; *HAVE NOT* Read the Books MOD NOTE Post 347

wp_rathead

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Obviously I'm a massive GoT fan and I love every single episode but I was a bit disappointed with that episode. I know I'm going against the grain here but I would've preferred to see more of the other storylines as well as the big battle at the Wall. I'm dying to know what's going to happen to Tyrion, so I suppose that's why I was disappointed in this episode.

I did get a bit teary seeing Pip and the lads dead at the gate, when Jon said they didn't let the gate fall...touching moment...

Only one episode left!!!!!

Think Pip was the the guy who got the arrow through the neck with Sam and Gren was the guy who defended the gate in the tunnel - but yes very moving..

While I'm itching to find out about Tyrions trial I'm delighted they dedicated the whole episode to the battle of the Wall.. Next week gonna be insane

SweetChaos

Essien wrote: »

Same here, which means he'll probably be killed off next week.

I hope not I love Jon Snow in it

Sam using the F word Go Sam!

This episode was brilliant I loved it when Jon gave Sam the key and said I need him more than you and Ghost was unleashed I gave a cheer

DROP THE SCYTHE BOYS omg

Rewatching it again in case i missed anything

Degag

Very good episode. Respect to Ser Allister. Only part I didn't like was Jon holding Ygrette in his arms as she died. It's GoT ffs!

Chet T16

I got one!

Oh, is it over then?

major bill

Btw is it just me or is that wilding girl Sam loves lowering the standard of acting?? Every scene she does is terrible

bantee

Blay wrote: »

They only showed one mammoth and two giants, one ran off after the mammoth.

Awkward unpredictable beasts aren't they!

accap1f8

I though the guy they captured was mance rayder so I googled the name. Some pretty weird pics of Lara croft come up!!

RED L4 0TH

Funnyonion79 wrote: »

Obviously I'm a massive GoT fan and I love every single episode but I was a bit disappointed with that episode. I know I'm going against the grain here but I would've preferred to see more of the other storylines as well as the big battle at the Wall. I'm dying to know what's going to happen to Tyrion, so I suppose that's why I was disappointed in this episode.

+1. Feeling a bit flat after watching that I'm afraid. Some great scenes in the battle I'll admit. Did it deserve an entire episode to itself? I would say no.

Degag

accap1f8 wrote: »

I though the guy they captured was mance rayder so I googled the name. Some pretty weird pics of Lara croft come up!!

The guy they captured is Tormond

K_user

Good episode, not as exciting as last weeks and certainly not a "real" episode 9

I understand why this story had to take over the entire hour. There was a lot of story and what happens has a real effect on the 7 Kingdoms. But I felt a little cheated at the end. Jon's decision to head off on his own came from no-where. It just seemed to have no bearing on the story. It felt a little flat.

FourFourRED

Where is Jon Snow off to?

Witcher

Aodhagan wrote: »

Where is Jon Snow off to?

To find Mance Rayder beyond the Wall.

thefa

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. People are complaining that the watch defended the wall, but they just defended them against one attack and there are still thousands of wildlings left.

I suppose the fact that they defended the wall and prevented a quick victory is still significant. It buys them time to get support. It looks like Mance will have to commit more men to a direct assault on the gate or climb of the wall if he is going to win anytime soon. An attritional fighting will cost him when the defenders have such an advantage.

At the end of last season, at least one significant character was made aware of the problems developing in the North by Maester Aemon's Raven/s and it was mentioned by another significant character this season. You have to believe the defence wasn't for nothing.


The scenes mentioned;

Stannis/Melissandre/Davos scene at the end of season 3 and Tywin/Oberyn talk in brothel this season.

FourFourRED

Blay wrote: »

To find Mance Rayder beyond the Wall.

Thanks. That seems like a crazy & unnecessary thing to do though.

Cianos

Incredible episode, and I think a real monumental moment in TV/Film where an hour long epic battle is made many times better because of the dozens of hours spent building the world and the characters/history/mythology/culture it holds. Hats off to Martin again for crafting such a masterpiece that results in an hour of action that still holds so much contextual weight and impact.

Anachrony

Aodhagan wrote: »

Thanks. That seems like a crazy & unnecessary thing to do though.

It does seem rather pointless, but he addressed that pretty well already. It's a bad plan, but what's your plan? They are outnumbered thousands to one, and the wildlings were just testing the defenses last time. They'll be lucky to hold out another day or two before their inevitable defeat. So he can sit there and maybe die tomorrow, or he can go out there and probably die today. One plan has a negligible chance of success while the other has zero chance of success.

keith16

Oh my god that was fûcking epic.

"Have a hammer in your head"

- Jon Snow

thefa

RED L4 0TH wrote: »

+1. Feeling a bit flat after watching that I'm afraid. Some great scenes in the battle I'll admit. Did it deserve an entire episode to itself? I would say no.

I've felt that the wall story has felt a bit disjointed at stages and has been at a pedestrian pace at some points. I understand that the pace of life and size of the place lends to a longer timeline but some things seem to be extended. That attack on Craster's keep was at least 3 episodes from identifying the problem to planning to execution. Mance Rayder's army has been on the move for most of two seasons. The white walkers were in the very first episode and seemed to be massing an army at the end of season 2.

I'm glad they gave it the the full episode because with such a long buildup, it deserved more than to be broken up with flicking between the wall and King's Landing and the Hound and Dany. I imagine there would have been complaints about how the battle didn't flow if that was the case. The alternative of cutting it down doesn't seem as attractive given the variety they managed to fit in to the fighting.


I don't think there's many other storylines this season that would lend themselves as well into the hour without feeling rushed. If we had Tyrion's trial, prison scenes with Bronn/Jaime/Oberyn and the trial by combat in one episode it would've felt rushed.

Cianos

Anachrony wrote: »

It does seem rather pointless, but he addressed that pretty well already. It's a bad plan, but what's your plan? They are outnumbered thousands to one, and the wildlings were just testing the defenses last time. They'll be lucky to hold out another day or two before their inevitable defeat. So he can sit there and maybe die tomorrow, or he can go out there and probably die today. One plan has a negligible chance of success while the other has zero chance of success.

Unless they have loads more giants and wooly mammoths I wouldn't say the wall's defeat is inevitable. A lot of Nightswatchmen died, but we saw that the wall has very good defense mechanisms in place. The only enemies that made any difference were the giants and wooly mammoths, the normal wildlings made zero progress. That said, if the gate goes they're fooked - but they have time now and very good reason to seal the gate.

Dan_Solo

Degag wrote: »

Very good episode. Respect to Ser Allister. Only part I didn't like was Jon holding Ygrette in his arms as she died. It's GoT ffs!

Anybody else waiting for a bear hug to skewer Jon on the arrow sticking out of her chest?
That would be so GoT....

Dan_Solo

Anachrony wrote: »

It does seem rather pointless, but he addressed that pretty well already. It's a bad plan, but what's your plan? They are outnumbered thousands to one, and the wildlings were just testing the defenses last time. They'll be lucky to hold out another day or two before their inevitable defeat. So he can sit there and maybe die tomorrow, or he can go out there and probably die today. One plan has a negligible chance of success while the other has zero chance of success.

Sit behind the easily defended wall still looks like a waaay better plan. Isn't even one of the 100,000 wildlings watching the gate in the middle of the day? :eek:

MadYaker

They have no choice but to collapse the tunnel now. If they do that they might have a chance since the raiding party on the westeros side of the wall are defeated. Wildlings could still climb the wall elsewhere again I guess.

FortuneChip

There have been a lot of Game of Thrones episodes with moments that I will never forget.
I will not forget that episode.

It was incredible. It did the large scale, and the minute so well.
From the (soon to be infamous the world over) "Drop the scythe" to the continuous shot inside the grounds.
The giants looked great; powerful, dangerous and chaotic.

One stand out moment "I got one"
"Really? Is it over?"

I've always like Jon's character, kinda by default (we're meant to), but that episode will define him. Loved how he gained command "Here, you... You're wanted downstairs" "Oh, ok"
I really liked how much they used Sam in that episode, it's a strange point-of-view to take for such a battle.
"You said from now on we'd stay together"
"I didn't mean in the same room!"

I was fully convinced Oberyn would be beaten by the Mountain, and it was still shocking.
I genuinely didn't expect Ygritte to be killed (and the angle "sure her story couldn't have developed any further" is invalid in a show where a character swears revenge on many people only to be killed in his first on-screen fight).
So yeah, upset she's gone. One more for the list I guess.

I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get to meet Mance, all happy with his little fire.
But I guess there's always next week, or Season 6, Episode 5.

RED L4 0TH

thefa wrote: »

The white walkers were in the very first episode and seemed to be massing an army at the end of season 2.

Plus the following at the end of episode 4 this season (what a scene!).

When these boys decide it's time to act it's gonna be fun........

thefa

MadYaker wrote: »

They have no choice but to collapse the tunnel now. If they do that they might have a chance since the raiding party on the westeros side of the wall are defeated. Wildlings could still climb the wall elsewhere again I guess.

Jon mentions filling it with rocks and ice and then flooding it to seal it. I'm not sure if collapsing it is possible at short notice or what affect that would have on the integrity of the wall.


Apparently the bottom of the wall would collapse/deform under the weight of itself as per science.

Rasheed

Can't believe we still don't know what's happening with Tyrion!

Who was the lad that killed Ygritte? Was he in it before?

As soneone said, I'll need to rewatch the episode, I'm sure I missed loads.

Witcher

Rasheed wrote: »

Can't believe we still don't know what's happening with Tyrion!

Who was the lad that killed Ygritte? Was he in it before?

As soneone said, I'll need to rewatch the episode, I'm sure I missed loads.

He was the young lad the Thenns sent to Castle Black after they said they would eat his parents.

Rasheed

Blay wrote: »

He was the young lad the Thenns sent to Castle Black after they said they would eat his parents.

Oh of course, thanks!

J. Marston

cathalio11 wrote: »

Just in case you all really like Alliser right now, here's a special from him!

Tip: Never say "It's a bit nippy" to a man who was trapped in the wild for 6 months, eating other humans to stay alive, because of the cold.

"You don't know cold." One of the best delivered lines in the entire series.

On the subject of whether or not the entire episode needed to be dedicated to the battle. There's only been two episodes out of 39 where battles have been the main focus, that's nothing really.

Plus I remember season one where there was 3 or 4 occasions where we saw nothing of the battles and only picked up the action during the aftermath. Obviously they didn't have the budget then but completely chopping out those fight scenes was annoying then so a giant battle episode like Blackwater or Watchers On The Wall every season or two is more than welcome for me.

EyeSight

Cianos wrote: »

Unless they have loads more giants and wooly mammoths I wouldn't say the wall's defeat is inevitable. A lot of Nightswatchmen died, but we saw that the wall has very good defense mechanisms in place. The only enemies that made any difference were the giants and wooly mammoths, the normal wildlings made zero progress. That said, if the gate goes they're fooked - but they have time now and very good reason to seal the gate.

an army of 100,000 and only 2 giants and 1 mammoth? Doubtful.
Besides, Mance was probably watching from afar and now knows the unpenetrable parts i.e. climbing the wall and the vulnerable parts i.e. the gate
Their only gate defense was dropping oil barrels, and i doubt the crows have enough to keep using that. The gate is weakened, the gate can be lifted by 1 giant. He probably has a good idea of the number of crows left. I doubt he has any more people on the other side to counter attack but it's possible

Will they have enough time to seal the gate by nightfall? Keeping in mind they're probably wrecked from that fight.

I loved the episode. The fact that GRR like to kill off so many main people really makes things unpredictable and exciting. In no other movie or show was i on the edge of my seat during a battle.
Not dedicating the full hour to the battle would have killed the pacing and intensity