****LEAVING CERT BUSINESS BEFORE AND AFTER****

feckin priests

Timing was probably the biggest issue but I got all done, had to kind of waffle IDA and functions of a meeting, happy enough with the answers though. Then had 5 minutes to go back over short questions. Luckly the answers for most of them I hadn't got popped into my head

Did questions 1, 2, 4 & 6
Anybody not do question 1?

robman60

Kyro wrote: »

Technically, it was 1:3 and not 3:1 but yeah.

Well I had both figures above and then put it as 600:200 = 3:1 or something. I can imagine I'll get docked a bit for that as I haven't expressed it correctly.

Mcd2812

mono2 wrote: »

It was something like in relation to recruitment talk about
(I) internal and external recruitment
(ii) job description and person specification
(ii) job interview

Something like that anyways!

I thought that was a pretty nice question, I just wrote a paragraph about each in my answer. For part (i), I spoke about what they meant and briefly described the advantages of both, in part (ii) I basically defined what they both meant, and in part (iii), I spoke about what happens at an interview, etc. I hope that's right

thelad95

Guys I think we are in for a particularly difficult marking scheme. Q5 and Q7 required little knowledge to be honest and more common sense. In fact, come to think of it Q1 was common sense apart from Sogsos Act. SQ's were very easy as well apart from the management style and adapting to change. I said autocratic and that they would force employees to conform to the change with fear and threats.

thelad95

Mcd2812 wrote: »

I thought that was a pretty nice question, I just wrote a paragraph about each in my answer. For part (i), I spoke about what they meant and briefly described the advantages of both, in part (ii) I basically defined what they both meant, and in part (iii), I spoke about what happens at an interview, etc. I hope that's right

Common sense really, but the marking scheme might be tight on it.

little sis...

I feel like I needed to have a knowledge of accounting to do that debt equity calculation.

I hate all you accounting people

robman60

Also, this exam is horrendously tight for time. I got it all done but I was rushing all four long questions! Short Qs, ABQ and 3 long questions would be sufficient given the time we're allotted.

After finishing my third long question I was deliberating in my head whether or not I had sufficient time to take a drink of water! It's crazy stuff really. :eek:

Aspiring

Kyro wrote: »

Agreement is the element of a valid contract. It is made up of both an offer and acceptance. Both must be present.

Balls, looks like I could lose a few marks so.

thelad95

I wouldn't worry too much if you wrote offer and acceptance as two points, they'll probably just combine them into one.

Aspiring

thelad95 wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much if you wrote offer and acceptance as two points, they'll probably just combine them into one.

Yeah trying to look for a similar situation in the marking scheme to see what way it was marked. We always learned them all as separate elements of the contract so I'm sure my whole class probably got caught out there.

Odrevan

thelad95 wrote: »

I wouldn't worry too much if you wrote offer and acceptance as two points, they'll probably just combine them into one.

21st Century Business old version has offer and acceptance or offer and agreement as two different points anyway and we always learnt them as two. I'd honestly say too much of the country did them as two to dock on it

little sis...

We also have them as two separate points in our teacher's notes.

aleatorio

7jy wrote: »

ah yeah:

1) defined them both and referred to transfers/promotions for internal and job advertisements/recruiting agencies for external

2) defined them both pretty easily, wrote a second short paragraph for both but cant for the life of me remember what the context of the question was

3) just mentioned what it was, mentioned that the interviewer had to be unbiased/prepared with questions and that a record had to be kept for a year afterwards

not a bad question at all, probably wrote too much but my timing was perfect to the minute somehow so it didn't really matter

Yeah I wrote the same, and for the interview I also talked about the different kinds (panel, group, stress) :P

thelad95 wrote: »

Guys I think we are in for a particularly difficult marking scheme. Q5 and Q7 required little knowledge to be honest and more common sense. In fact, come to think of it Q1 was common sense apart from Sogsos Act. SQ's were very easy as well apart from the management style and adapting to change. I said autocratic and that they would force employees to conform to the change with fear and threats.

I said democratic and that they'll involve the employees in the change and listen to their opinions, and lead by example and whatnot..
That sound ok?

Odrevan

little sis... wrote: »

We also have them as two separate points in our teacher's notes.

Now me giving counter offer as a full point was chancing my arm, but I'm confident both my offer and acceptance will be *ahem* accepted :P

thelad95

aleatorio wrote: »

I said democratic and that they'll involve the employees in the change and listen to their opinions, and lead by example and whatnot..
That sound ok?

Sounds good

mono2

Mcd2812 wrote: »

I thought that was a pretty nice question, I just wrote a paragraph about each in my answer. For part (i), I spoke about what they meant and briefly described the advantages of both, in part (ii) I basically defined what they both meant, and in part (iii), I spoke about what happens at an interview, etc. I hope that's right

I never seen anything to do with recruitment in my life, completely made it up but it seems like I got a lot of it! Only took it because I wanted the other two parts of the question

Aspiring

Odrevan wrote: »

Now me giving counter offer as a full point was chancing my arm, but I'm confident both my offer and acceptance will be *ahem* accepted :P

We Mightn't lose any marks at all so if many books have them separately (and my notes). Don't have my own book here to look what it's take on it is.

thelad95

Odrevan wrote: »

21st Century Business old version has offer and acceptance or offer and agreement as two different points anyway and we always learnt them as two. I'd honestly say too much of the country did them as two to dock on it

So you would trust a textbook over the actual marking scheme....?

Odrevan

Aspiring wrote: »

We Mightn't lose any marks at all so if many books have them separately (and my notes). Don't have my own book here to look what it's take on it is.

Nah we'll be fine absolutely, like if its as ambiguous as that worst case scenario wait until rechecks to get the deserved marks! Certainly not worth losing sleep over

Aspiring

thelad95 wrote: »

So you would trust a textbook over the actual marking scheme....?

Link said marking scheme please don't have my papers here to flick through past questions

Odrevan

thelad95 wrote: »

So you would trust a textbook over the actual marking scheme....?

Considering theyre going to have ~half of students writing them as two I think its safe. Plus marking schemes are subject to change so they might alter it to validate what loads of us said. And nobody has proven that up until now the marking scheme has accepted them as one so its not like were even needing to worry about it yet!

Aspiring

I'm beginning my investigation into these matters.
Expect a report soon

thelad95

Aspiring wrote: »

Link said marking scheme please don't have my papers here to flick through past questions

Last year, they asked you to define Agreement and this is the Marking Scheme:

Agreement:
For agreement to exist there must be a clear, complete and unconditional offer and acceptance
of that offer.

Offer: A promise to be bound provided the terms of the offer are accepted.
The offer can be made orally, in writing, or by conduct and is a clear indication of the
offeror's willingness to enter into an agreement under specified terms.

E.g. The price of the second-hand car was €9,000; Joe (the buyer) offered €9,000 for the car.

Acceptance: The party answering the offer agrees to the terms of the offer orally, in writing,
or by conduct.
Offer must be accepted and taken up by other party as it stands, without any conditions.

E.g. Michael (the seller) accepts Joe’s offer of €9,000

little sis...

thelad95 wrote: »

Last year, they asked you to define Agreement and this is the Marking Scheme:

Agreement:
For agreement to exist there must be a clear, complete and unconditional offer and acceptance
of that offer.

Offer: A promise to be bound provided the terms of the offer are accepted.
The offer can be made orally, in writing, or by conduct and is a clear indication of the
offeror's willingness to enter into an agreement under specified terms.

E.g. The price of the second-hand car was €9,000; Joe (the buyer) offered €9,000 for the car.

Acceptance: The party answering the offer agrees to the terms of the offer orally, in writing,
or by conduct.
Offer must be accepted and taken up by other party as it stands, without any conditions.

E.g. Michael (the seller) accepts Joe’s offer of €9,000

Defining Agreement is different to listing the elements of a contract.

Odrevan

Aspiring wrote: »

I'm beginning my investigation into these matters.
Expect a report soon

God speed detective!
Title: Offer and Acceptance considered as one point
Table of Contents: Page 1: Report
Executive Summary: Theyre two different points
Terms of Reference: Investigate whether or not offer and acceptance are considered as two different points
Findings: My book and my gut tells me theyre two different points
Conclusions: Be grand! I recommend we tell the SEC to stop making questions ambiguous but then again after this year it doesn't affect me :P
Appendices/Bibliography: N/A

Gaw_

robman60 wrote: »

Also, this exam is horrendously tight for time. I got it all done but I was rushing all four long questions! Short Qs, ABQ and 3 long questions would be sufficient given the time we're allotted.

After finishing my third long question I was deliberating in my head whether or not I had sufficient time to take a drink of water! It's crazy stuff really. :eek:

Yeah, same situation here. The exam times are very inconsistent. For example, most people finish Biology and French really early. But then we've got broken wrists with this

thelad95

Aspiring wrote: »

Link said marking scheme please don't have my papers here to flick through past questions

And in 2006, they asked you to explain the elements of a valid contract and these were the headings they were looking for:

(C) Elements of valid contract (explain)

1. Agreement (Offer and Acceptance)
2. Consideration
3. Intention to Contract
4. Consent
5. Capacity to Contract
6. Legality of form
7. Legality of purpose.

We're quibbling over nothing. The worst that can happen is that they will split into two point for people who said Agreement (me) or they'll amalgamate the two points into one (you). It's only 5 marks.

Odrevan

thelad95 wrote: »

And in 2006, they asked you to explain the elements of a valid contract and these were the headings they were looking for:

(C) Elements of valid contract (explain)

1. Agreement (Offer and Acceptance)
2. Consideration
3. Intention to Contract
4. Consent
5. Capacity to Contract
6. Legality of form
7. Legality of purpose.

But in all fairness, there's not a hope theyll get away with lumping offer, counter offer and acceptance all as one point for the eejits like me! Nope itd be a bit unfair!

little sis...

thelad95 wrote: »

And in 2006, they asked you to explain the elements of a valid contract and these were the headings they were looking for:

(C) Elements of valid contract (explain)

1. Agreement (Offer and Acceptance)
2. Consideration
3. Intention to Contract
4. Consent
5. Capacity to Contract
6. Legality of form
7. Legality of purpose.

Ok now I hate you the marking scheme :P

Aspiring

The results of the report are not too pleasing:
Both 2009 and 2006 had questions relating to "listing elements of a valid contract".
"Agreement (Offer & Acceptance)" was one of the elements.

However, while I'm assuming a candidate would lose at most 10 marks in this situation, I cannot predict what the marking scheme will do. This is different to a long question or SQ. The ABQ was answered by everybody. And if the question was answered across the board with the two as separate elements (especially with ambiguity around the subject in textbooks), the marking scheme may be altered to accept both.

We really don't know, so there's no point worrying