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Dublin Pride 2014

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    #92
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    littleblackDRS wrote: »
    NOBODY has the right to walk around naked. You realise that public nudity is an offence, and the only reason it is tolerated on gay pride day is because people hide behind the "discrimination" line.

    Tell me, how will walking naked down the street help for equal marriage rights? If anything it is damaging the cause.

    Bull ****.

    When has there been nudity at pride? A pair of short shorts isn't nudity.

    There is nothing at pride you don't see at the beach. Maybe a bit of ass cheek (which is legal), but that's about it.


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    #93
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    littleblackDRS wrote: »
    Pride 2013 (NSFW):
    http://c1.dmlimg.com/2e5c93fc5fcb277c88837e18ff8cc045db3322f5e12646e33dc414c9b5b40fd3.jpg

    http://cdn3.independent.ie/irish-news/article29383287.ece/00cb4/ALTERNATES/h342/NWS_20130630_ANA_002_28107008_I3.JPG

    And stuff like this is just plain unnecessary: http://static2.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/2200-8/photos/2207328.jpg

    Women in bikinis walking around town isn't grand. Even in Spain, you will be told that you can't walk around a city in a bikini, as it is beach attire, and not appropriate.

    Honestly I can't understand, while fighting for equality and "we're all the same", people are willing to ostracise themselves even further.

    Edit: To add, I have no problem with the fairy wings and tutus, as cliched as it is, I just don't think nudity or BDSM attire is appropriate in the middle of the city in the middle of the day.

    With the possible exception of the breasts (though i think generally you can get away with as long as nipples are covered, hence so many pop starlets with partial breast on display at award shows) there is nothing illegal about any of that.

    There is also no nudity. And nothing (in terms of body parts) you couldn't see at the beach more or less.


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    #94
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    floggg wrote: »
    With the possible exception of the breasts (though i think generally you can get away with as long as nipples are covered, hence so many pop starlets with partial breast on display at award shows) there is nothing illegal about any of that.

    There is also no nudity. And nothing (in terms of body parts) you couldn't see at the beach more or less.
    It's clearly more a person's distaste of the event in question than the question of clothing/body, it makes them uncomfortable. I'd find a wrestling match more risqué myself.


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    #95
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Aard wrote: »
    Reread my post. I said it was jarring. I have no issue with bodily expression, but there's a time and place.

    Again, why would you care what anyone else is wearing? Any time of the day or night, why would you care? Very very odd to care what other people are wearing and to seek to control what they wear. Odd and sad.

    If you don't like skimpy shorts, then don't wear them. But don't enforce your tastes on other people.


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    #96
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    floggg wrote: »
    Skimpy outfits? The horror!

    Presumably on the basis that you find pride so risqué, you wouldn't take your kid to the beach either.

    Or the swimming pool?

    I don't object to skimpy outfits, arses hanging out I don't like not when I'm bringing my kid. Now if Pride is adult only that's a different matter altogether but I thought the whole point of a daytime event was to be inclusive to all ages. Right now it doesn't feel like anyone under 18 is welcome which is a shame as it's one of the few events in the year that could be a force for good. People assuming that objections to those outfits are a sign of latent homophobia are way off the mark too but it's easy to throw that out there.


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    #97
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I don't object to skimpy outfits, arses hanging out I don't like not when I'm bringing my kid. Now if Pride is adult only that's a different matter altogether but I thought the whole point of a daytime event was to be inclusive to all ages. Right now it doesn't feel like anyone under 18 is welcome which is a shame as it's one of the few events in the year that could be a force for good. People assuming that objections to those outfits are a sign of latent homophobia are way off the mark too but it's easy to throw that out there.

    Then why bring it up? Skimpy clothes? Sheesh. It's a non issue, move on. People are entitled to wear what they like.

    The consumption of alcohol at the event is a much more relevant issue and that is the main issue that will affect Pride's attempts to be family friendly. I think people should keep the discussion on that and not on people's clothes because that is completely ridiculous and backward.


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    #98
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Then why bring it up? Skimpy clothes? Sheesh. It's a non issue, move on. People are entitled to wear what they like.

    The consumption of alcohol at the event is a much more relevant issue and that is the main issue that will affect Pride's attempts to be family friendly. I think people should keep the discussion on that and not on people's clothes because that is completely ridiculous and backward.

    It was the ass less shorts I had an issue with, like it or not it puts people off. It gives the impression Pride is not a family friendly event when it would be nice to have at least one thing suitable for all ages.


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    #99
    TheGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TheGlass


    Elektronske wrote: »
    The repressed and prudish Irish double standards on display here are staggering. Pride parades the world over are about expressing your sexuality openly and everything that goes with it without criticism or judgement. That's true equality.

    What about pedophilia? Everybody judges and has the right to criticise, hushing everybody up that doesn't agree with you is not equality. Having an overly sexualised display on parade in the middle of the day does nothing to advance lgbt rights, and probably hinders them.


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    #100
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    TheGlass wrote: »
    What about pedophilia? Everybody judges and has the right to criticise, hushing everybody up that doesn't agree with you is not equality. Having an overly sexualised display on parade in the middle of the day does nothing to advance lgbt rights, and probably hinders them.
    Huh? What about it? :confused: Straw man argument if there ever was one.


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    #101
    TheGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TheGlass


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    Huh? What about it? :confused: Straw man argument if there ever was one.

    He's repeatedly spouting about accepting everyone and everything, that people that don't like seeing naked or sexually explicit people in the middle of the day are backwards and ignorant.


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    #102
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    TheGlass wrote: »
    He's repeatedly spouting about accepting everyone and everything, that people that don't like seeing naked or sexually explicit people in the middle of the day are backwards and ignorant.
    It's one day of the whole year. There is nobody naked there, given the police force during the day, it wouldn't be allowed. Sexually explicit - well, as I've said many times before, there is a lot more sexually explicit material shown to you and your children through everyday media. The people who dress 'risqué' respresent a small minority on Pride itself. You've been to the marches yourself and have seen said sexually explicit people, I take it? You don't have the right not to be offended in that manner, anyway.

    To bring paedophilia into that argument is well, very telling of your mindset, and personally I think it's despicable.

    Take your offense to the likes of Folsom Street Fair where you might have a better reason.


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    #103
    Elektronske
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Elektronske


    TheGlass wrote: »
    What about pedophilia? Everybody judges and has the right to criticise, hushing everybody up that doesn't agree with you is not equality. Having an overly sexualised display on parade in the middle of the day does nothing to advance lgbt rights, and probably hinders them.

    Earlier someone was attempting to equate how people dress in the pride parade with anti social behaviour, now you are attempting to equate it with 'pedophilia' (sic). Really how low can you go ?

    People the world over in pride parades express their sexuality and this will include what they enjoy wearing. The authorities will police the parade and have no problem with such dress the world over. Your going to have to learn the meaning of tolerance and equality, and quit with the self hating homophobia.


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    #104
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It was the ass less shorts I had an issue with, like it or not it puts people off. It gives the impression Pride is not a family friendly event when it would be nice to have at least one thing suitable for all ages.

    I completely disagree. The number of children at the parade rises every year, both participants and spectators. The clothes people wear only bothers the old conservatives that probably don't like gays anyway - the ones that think being gay is contagious and that seeing men dressed as women will make children want to be trans-sexual. I would not change the ethos of diversity and acceptance for the sake of that lot.

    Again, the issue of alcohol is the core issue influencing a parents decision to bring their children to a public event, including Pride.

    I have been many times to the parade and I have never seen any trouble at it and/or drunkenness. The messiness starts later in the evening when all the children have long gone.

    I would hope that people wait til after the parade to start drinking and I think the vast majority respect that unspoken rule.


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    #105
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I completely disagree. The number of children at the parade rises every year, both participants and spectators. The clothes people wear only bothers the old conservatives that probably don't like gays anyway - the ones that think being gay is contagious and that seeing men dressed as women will make children want to be trans-sexual. I would not change the ethos of diversity and acceptance for the sake of that lot.

    Again, the issue of alcohol is the core issue influencing a parents decision to bring their children to a public event, including Pride.

    I have been many times to the parade and I have never seen any trouble at it and/or drunkenness. The messiness starts later in the evening when all the children have long gone.

    I would hope that people wait til after the parade to start drinking and I think the vast majority respect that unspoken rule.

    I am most certainly not an old conservative and I don't have an issue with gay people. By myself I wouldn't even look twice at what someone was wearing but when I bring a young child then I have to be a bit more mindful of him. There are certain things I don't want him to see at that age ( he's 5 ) and a guy with his bum hanging out is one of them. Its got nothing at all to do with disapproval of the gay lifestyle, heck I don't let him watch the adult phone in channels on Sky during the day for the same reason, as a parent I don't think he needs to be exposed to that yet and yes, that's my issue and I would never dream of suggesting Pride should have a dress code of any kind. My only point is mentioning it at all was that as times change and especially now with such a focus on the issue of gay parents and gay young people it would be great to have one event that was free of anything of an adult nature. Now maybe that is not the avenue Pride wants to go down and that is fair enough but imo its a great opportunity to include the entire community of Dublin that is going to waste. And with that I am bowing out. Its a shame you can't voice what is an unpopular opinion without being compared to a bigot.


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    #106
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I am most certainly not an old conservative and I don't have an issue with gay people. By myself I wouldn't even look twice at what someone was wearing but when I bring a young child then I have to be a bit more mindful of him. There are certain things I don't want him to see at that age ( he's 5 ) and a guy with his bum hanging out is one of them. Its got nothing at all to do with disapproval of the gay lifestyle, heck I don't let him watch the adult phone in channels on Sky during the day for the same reason, as a parent I don't think he needs to be exposed to that yet and yes, that's my issue and I would never dream of suggesting Pride should have a dress code of any kind. My only point is mentioning it at all was that as times change and especially now with such a focus on the issue of gay parents and gay young people it would be great to have one event that was free of anything of an adult nature. Now maybe that is not the avenue Pride wants to go down and that is fair enough but imo its a great opportunity to include the entire community of Dublin that is going to waste. And with that I am bowing out. Its a shame you can't voice what is an unpopular opinion without being compared to a bigot.


    So you're against your son seeing a bum. Ok. I think you need to chill out. Your son will have a great day.


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    #107
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    So you're against your son seeing a bum. Ok. I think you need to chill out. Your son will have a great day.

    Depends on the context, overtly sexualised is not okay for me. That doesn't make me a raging homophobe. I feel there is a lot of aspects of life he doesn't need to see at that age, that's one of them. I don't feel Pride is suitable for him and for that reason I won't be going. I wish the festival the best of luck and hope everyone has a blast.


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    #108
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Depends on the context, overtly sexualised is not okay for me. That doesn't make me a raging homophobe. I feel there is a lot of aspects of life he doesn't need to see at that age, that's one of them. I don't feel Pride is suitable for him and for that reason I won't be going. I wish the festival the best of luck and hope everyone has a blast.

    Come in for the day and see it for yourself, try to lose your hang ups and you'll probably enjoy it and so will your son. If it's raining, you won't see any flesh!!


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    #109
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Depends on the context, overtly sexualised is not okay for me. That doesn't make me a raging homophobe. I feel there is a lot of aspects of life he doesn't need to see at that age, that's one of them. I don't feel Pride is suitable for him and for that reason I won't be going. I wish the festival the best of luck and hope everyone has a blast.

    I presume you wouldn't let him go to the St Patricks Day parade either given that there are scantily clad women that march in that as well?


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    #110
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    I presume you wouldn't let him go to the St Patricks Day parade either given that there are scantily clad women that march in that as well?

    I doubt any act the involves a guy in a thong or a woman wearing pasties would even make it into the ST Patricks Day Parade.


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    #111
    Elektronske
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Elektronske


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I doubt any act the involves a guy in a thong or a woman wearing pasties would even make it into the ST Patricks Day Parade.

    You really need to start measure it against all the other gay pride parades and mardi gras parades worldwide, not some intolerant bigoted homophobic religious/nationalist parade.


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    #112
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    I've never been to a Pride Parade in Dublin.

    Is it worth travelling up from Cork?


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    #113
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    Cody montana wrote: »
    I've never been to a Pride Parade in Dublin.

    Is it worth travelling up from Cork?

    Yes. its always a great atmosphere all over town


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    #114
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I doubt any act the involves a guy in a thong or a woman wearing pasties would even make it into the ST Patricks Day Parade.


    Ive seen women in scantily clad outfits on St Patricks Parade.


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    #115
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Cody montana wrote: »
    I've never been to a Pride Parade in Dublin.

    Is it worth travelling up from Cork?
    It's a pretty great buzz. Huge turnouts around Merrion Square and all sorts around the place.


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    #116
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭Daith


    Cody montana wrote: »
    I've never been to a Pride Parade in Dublin.

    Is it worth travelling up from Cork?

    Yes it's great craic. Merrion Sq has a fantastic vibe then everyone tends to head near Front Lounge/Panti Bar/ 4 Dame Lane. All good.

    Cork Pride is great too


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    #117
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I am most certainly not an old conservative and I don't have an issue with gay people. By myself I wouldn't even look twice at what someone was wearing but when I bring a young child then I have to be a bit more mindful of him. There are certain things I don't want him to see at that age ( he's 5 ) and a guy with his bum hanging out is one of them. Its got nothing at all to do with disapproval of the gay lifestyle, heck I don't let him watch the adult phone in channels on Sky during the day for the same reason, as a parent I don't think he needs to be exposed to that yet and yes, that's my issue and I would never dream of suggesting Pride should have a dress code of any kind. My only point is mentioning it at all was that as times change and especially now with such a focus on the issue of gay parents and gay young people it would be great to have one event that was free of anything of an adult nature. Now maybe that is not the avenue Pride wants to go down and that is fair enough but imo its a great opportunity to include the entire community of Dublin that is going to waste. And with that I am bowing out. Its a shame you can't voice what is an unpopular opinion without being compared to a bigot.

    Have you checked the program. There's a youth breakfast (your kid would be too young for that though, 13 and up), concerts, a sports day and dog show, concerts etc.

    There is plenty of stuff.

    The majority of it based around the parade and bars though. And if you look at the history of the LGBT community then that's pretty appropriate.

    Let's face it, bars were the only outlet LGBT people had for years. Pride and the modern LGBT rights movement was birthed in a bar.

    It's great that pride is such a well supported and attended event now, but it shouldn't have to change it's nature to fit in with the expectations of it's new found spectators.

    If people want to come to pride and participate then they should adjust to prides attitudes and sensibilities, not expect pride to adjust for theirs.

    Pride started out as a defiant and rebellious movement, the one day of the year where LGBT people could flaunt their sexuality, their "sexual perversion" and their non-conformity. To many that meant ass-less garments.

    And that attitude, the "this is who I am and you should accept me for it" attitude is what own people over to the LGBT people community, not the conformist "let's blend into the background and conform to how we are expected to live" approach.

    So the idea that pride should be toned down to make it more palatable is fundamentally inconsistent with what pride started out as and is meant to be.

    So while it would be great if you brought your kid and told them that this is what diversity looks like, and they reason why people march and that everybody should be treated equally regardless of how they look, dress or who they love, if you are unwilling to do so without expecting pride to change it's basic nature to accomodate you, then maybe you should stay at home.


    As for the drink, pride is fairly well policed as regards public drinking. It's far stricter than Paddy's day, and that is one of the biggest family events in the country.

    Pride effectively started in a bar, and the bars have been fundamentally important to the LGBT community, at least up until recent years with the advent of the internet and apps. Let's not pretend otherwise.

    The community was centred around gay bars for so long, let's not try and whitewash them out of the picture now that we are no longer forced to seek refuge in them.


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    #118
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    That's a good point Flogg, it should be noted that Pride this year is a like a 10 day festival with mountains of activities like family breakfasts, dog walking for charity, art exhibitions, historical talks, concerts, a sports day, a dog show... There are also other festivals and events across the year that are integral now to the community, such as Gaze (film festival), the Dublin Theatre Festival, the Gloria Christmas Concert (amazing every year and a fantastic event for families), March for Marriage... The Pride Parade is a few hours of merriment out of it all.


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    #119
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    All year round there are events usually arranged by the parents within LGBT groups for people with children. Running amach have regular events for women with children, I think there is an upcoming trip to the Zoo soon. So the idea that people want to change Pride because they want to have at least One Event that is family friendly is missing the bigger picture.

    I would say I as an adult want at least One Event a year that people can feel free to express themselves and flaunt their long repressed sexuality on the streets without fear, in celebration and with their friends.

    If people want to come along with children thats great. As I have said before there will be a family section in Merrion Square and there are family groups marching in the parade itself. However I wouldnt like to see the parents included beginning to insist that we tone ourselves down because of that inclusion.

    I have marched in Pride with a mothers group with children and in my experience children are rarely shocked by something like a bare bum, in fact Ive seen children think its hilarious. Im aware of the vulneability of children that goes along with that innocence and I understand the importance of teaching children the difference between dangerous situations and safe ones. Sexuality in and of itself isnt a dangerous thing, its important to teach children how to differentiate between whats safe and whats not and any Pride I have been to with a child or with children has been safe. Naturally the children were not allowed to go wandering off on their own and if there were any questions they were answered honestly. I think growing up with this kind of awareness helps children to grow up into healthy adults with a healthy understanding of sexuality as part of being human along with a respect of self and of others. Its not what many of us grew up with, many of us didnt even see our own parents naked and any skin on show can seem shocking at first but what we usually see in Dublin during the Pride march is very manageable for parents with children especially when in a family section.
    Pride has been a great opportunity for children I have been around to see a diversity of people and it has been a load of fun.


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    #120
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Ambersky wrote: »
    I have marched in Pride with a mothers group with children and in my experience children are rarely shocked by something like a bare bum, in fact Ive seen children think its hilarious.

    That's the thing. Children don't sexualise body parts until they're older. My godson of 4 has often grabbed my boobs as a joke- to him they're just boobs, they're funny. It's not until children get told about sex or appropriate and inappropriate touching etc that they begin to see a difference between an arse and an elbow. Seeing a man dressed in leather for example has a sexual connotation for us but for a kid that guy could be a super hero!

    I personally think that we don't give children and young people enough credit. Even teenagers, who are beginning their journey into sexual adults can see body parts and not immediately want to copy them. It's a great opportunity for parents to have a conversation about bodies, respect, personal choice, consequences etc.


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    #121
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    That's the thing. Children don't sexualise body parts until they're older. My godson of 4 has often grabbed my boobs as a joke- to him they're just boobs, they're funny. It's not until children get told about sex or appropriate and inappropriate touching etc that they begin to see a difference between an arse and an elbow. Seeing a man dressed in leather for example has a sexual connotation for us but for a kid that guy could be a super hero!

    I personally think that we don't give children and young people enough credit. Even teenagers, who are beginning their journey into sexual adults can see body parts and not immediately want to copy them. It's a great opportunity for parents to have a conversation about bodies, respect, personal choice, consequences etc.
    Absolutely. Too many people here are making connotations from an adult perspective.


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