Season 4, Episode 8 - 'The Mountain and the Viper', HAVE NOT read the books

Dermighty

I was genuinely gobsmacked at the end.

krudler

kryogen wrote: »

Though I said I expected The Mountain to kill Oberyn, I really wish I had been wrong, such a horrible way to go too

It was given away a fair bit with the arsing around and the comments between Oberyn and his missus and made plain obvious it was not going to end well when he pulled out the spear (which actually would have done more damage then leaving it in) and said he couldnt die yet

I actually wish I had not seen it you know. He was like a boss in the fight, he had him beat, I feel sickened now

That harked back to his introduction when he shoved a blade through the wrist of one of the Lannister guards in Littlefingers brothel, he kept it in there taunting the other guy and said once he took it out he'd start bleeding a lot faster. Oberyn knew what he was at he just let emotions get the best of him.

kryogen

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Strangely enough, that's cheered me up.

I don't know why.

Snap! Exact same feeling on seeing it

shruikan2553

I find it annoying that he would have beaten the mountain if he had just finished the job instead of taunting him to confess.

RobertKK

Tyrion is the best character in Game of Thrones, hope he doesn't lose his head.
Oberyn was stupid...

thefa

Degag wrote: »

If this was spoilered because it's a book spoiler, should it be removed?

I think the same thing will happen as the person you quoted because of a particular scene from S3E10 and a scene from earlier this season. Details below but spoilered in fear of being correct. :rolleyes:

Melisandre identifies the importance and threat of the situation in the North in one of the last scenes of season 3. Stannis has got an army and I imagine ships from Bravos two episodes ago plus we were given no indication of what his plan of action is. If they told us then that wouldn't add to the suspense. There seems to be few other alternatives given Roose Bolton is the closest we know of but seems to ignorant of the situation and in the South, Tywin (in his talk with Oberyn) is the only one who mentions the Wildling army attacking the wall but hardly has the resources to send an army there straight after the last war.

Axwell

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Spear in the belly. You're talking 19th century tech at the minimum before anybody survives that.
Unless there's some magic about but this show is mostly magic free.

Wargs, Mellisandre and shadow assasins, Thoros of Myr reviving Beric Dondarrion, Beric lighting his sword with fire to fight the Hound...more magic than a Paul Daniels stage show!

Optimalprimerib

I read a review of his episode and it was mentioned that some critic was highly critical of the homoerotica in game of thrones. His name was orson as was the name of the moron cousin killing the bugs.

So as we are all trying to figure out the subtle symbologies of that little story, it more than likely was nothing more than a fūck you to this orson character. I will dig out the review when I find it. The review is linked here along with a link to the critic orson scott card.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/01/game-of-thrones-the-mountain-and-the-viper-recap-trial-by-combat-and-inigo-montoya-s-revenge.html

mrkite77

Blay wrote: »

That is how a trial by combat works, even in real life.

"Because Britain did not abolish wager by battle until Parliament's 1819 response to Ashford v Thornton (1818), and because no court in post-independence United States has addressed the issue, the question of whether trial by combat remains a valid American alternative to civil action remains open, at least in theory"

I'd love to see someone request a trial by paintball...

Anachrony

Syferus wrote: »

The Hound is going to get fecked up by Brienne if he doubles back after hearing about Lysa's death.

It's not entirely a foregone conclusion who would win.

However, they've not got guards on the cliff pointing bows down at them and they've just revealed Arya's identity to them. I don't see how the guards would let them turn around and walk away with a Stark child, and I don't see how the Hound can fight their way free.

Grimebox

That final scene was the most disturbing thing I've seen in this show yet. I actually looked away.

Lemlin

thefa wrote: »

I think the Martells won't be able to be too aggrieved since Oberyn volunteered for it, definitely not up to the point where they can hurt CerseI'd daughter.

I would have like to see Tywin's reaction to Oberyn being the champion for Tyrion even though Tywin had already promised the mountain to Oberyn so the relationship was going to be strained.

I think his death puts the Martells back in the fold as potential allies for Dany if she needs some in Westeros.

Just read the thread and the one thing I haven't seen anyone pick up on is that the Mountain admitted the murdering of Elia and her children to the entire court.

Could this now be the start of a war between Dorne and the Lannisters?

In a twisted way, Oberyn is dead but he gets exactly what he wanted - a war against the Lannisters.

PirateShampoo

I'll put that ending right up there for shock value with The Walking Deads ending of look at the flowers scene.

thefa

Lemlin wrote: »

Just read the thread and the one thing I haven't seen anyone pick up on is that the Mountain admitted the murdering of Elia and her children to the entire court.

Could this now be the start of a war between Dorne and the Lannisters?

In a twisted way, Oberyn is dead but he gets exactly what he wanted - a war against the Lannisters.

I was sure that was already mentioned as the primary reason there was bad blood between the Lannisters and Martells. It was known that the Lannisters sacked Kings Landing and the Mountain killed Oberyns sister and nephew. Going back to his first talk with Tyrion, they discuss it then.

Lemlin

thefa wrote: »

I was sure that was already mentioned as the primary reason there was bad blood between the Lannisters and Martells. It was known that the Lannisters sacked Kings Landing and the Mountain killed Oberyns sister and nephew. Going back to his first talk with Tyrion, they discuss it then.

I don't think it had ever been confirmed though. Is that not why Oberyn wanted The Mountain to admit it?

Liamario

Grimebox wrote: »

That final scene was the most disturbing thing I've seen in this show yet. I actually looked away.

It was gruesome. I've seen **** like that before in movies, but it really really hit hard seeing it last night for some reason.

bluesfan

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't think it had ever been confirmed though. Is that not why Oberyn wanted The Mountain to admit it?

It was always known that the mountain did it, what he needed was an admission that he did it under orders, he didn't get that.

Dan_Solo

Axwell wrote: »

Wargs, Mellisandre and shadow assasins, Thoros of Myr reviving Beric Dondarrion, Beric lighting his sword with fire to fight the Hound...more magic than a Paul Daniels stage show!

Maybe you don't know fantasy novels, but GoT is very low magic as these things go, especially around King's Landing for some reason. You'd think they'd have a few potions of healing about the place for emergencies like...

seamus

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't think it had ever been confirmed though. Is that not why Oberyn wanted The Mountain to admit it?

It was basically only rumoured. Since the Mountain is effectively Tywin's personal dog, Oberyn needed to hear the Mountain admit it, to confirm that it was Tywin who gave the order.

FortuneChip

I watched the fight again.
Figured Oberyn wouldn't be foolish enough to make the same mistake again.

He makes the same mistake again

Links234

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I read a review of his episode and it was mentioned that some critic was highly critical of the homoerotica in game of thrones. His name was orson as was the name of the moron cousin killing the bugs.

So as we are all trying to figure out the subtle symbologies of that little story, it more than likely was nothing more than a fūck you to this orson character. I will dig out the review when I find it. The review is linked here along with a link to the critic orson scott card.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/01/game-of-thrones-the-mountain-and-the-viper-recap-trial-by-combat-and-inigo-montoya-s-revenge.html

Now that's interesting, but Orson Scott Card isn't a critic, he's a very successful author and wrote Ender's Game. He also isn't just virulently homophobic, he was on the board of directors for the "national organization for marriage", supported the criminalization of homosexuality. He's been one of the big wigs in the anti-LGBT movement. I point this out because I can't see Game of Thrones being so petty over a critic, but this guy? That's much more plausible.

Dan_Solo

Links234 wrote: »

Now that's interesting, but Orson Scott Card isn't a critic, he's a very successful author and wrote Ender's Game. He also isn't just virulently homophobic, he was on the board of directors for the "national organization for marriage", supported the criminalization of homosexuality. He's been one of the big wigs in the anti-LGBT movement. I point this out because I can't see Game of Thrones being so petty over a critic, but this guy? That's much more plausible.

Good info alright about this.
I found the whole pre-fight beetle ramble a little tedious, which is a pity as there'd been so many great scenes around the trial and in the dungeon. It might explain why it didn't seem to fit right or be quite as clever as it though it was if it was a veiled stab at somebody.

duploelabs

Nice sum up here
http://io9.com/on-game-of-thrones-we-learn-the-hard-way-revenge-is-be-1584737275

allybhoy

Liamario wrote: »

It was gruesome. I've seen **** like that before in movies, but it really really hit hard seeing it last night for some reason.

I also found it a bit over the top to be honest... and im far from squeamish,
Like did we really need to see him gouge his eyes out with his thumbs before he smashed his head in, I thought the eye gouging was gratuitous simply for the sake of it..not necessary.

Apart from that, it was a solid enough episode, only 2 episodes left now in this season though so im guessing a lot of stories will be still up in the air

Dan_Solo

bluesfan wrote: »

It was always known that the mountain did it, what he needed was an admission that he did it under orders, he didn't get that.

This bit bothered me too. I don't see what Oberyn had to gain here at all by forcing Tywin's guilt into the open. As has been pointed out at length here, he was supposed to be playing the long game and bringing down the Lannisters, and I don't see how whatever The Mountain said would've bought anything other than personal satisfaction.

Dan_Solo

allybhoy wrote: »

Apart from that, it was a solid enough episode, only 2 episodes left now in this season though so im guessing a lot of stories will be still up in the air

And no doubt at least one more character will bite the dust!

Turtyturd

Links234 wrote: »

Now that's interesting, but Orson Scott Card isn't a critic, he's a very successful author and wrote Ender's Game. He also isn't just virulently homophobic, he was on the board of directors for the "national organization for marriage", supported the criminalization of homosexuality. He's been one of the big wigs in the anti-LGBT movement. I point this out because I can't see Game of Thrones being so petty over a critic, but this guy? That's much more plausible.

Felt the scene was out of place myself but it makes sense that it was a dig at Card, especially the whole bug/buggers thing.

It's probably a bit counterproductive though.

Links234

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Good info alright about this.
I found the whole pre-fight beetle ramble a little tedious, which is a pity as there'd been so many great scenes around the trial and in the dungeon. It might explain why it didn't seem to fit right or be quite as clever as it though it was if it was a veiled stab at somebody.

I didn't think it was the worst thing in the show by far, but it seemed to just go on a bit too long. The bit about Tyrion saying that mocking Orson was the only thing that made him feel like everyone else was a good bit of writing, and the whole scene did seem to have a point to it, it just dragged on more than it needed to. So, I don't really think it's a stab at someone named Orson, but if it was a stab, then it makes sense it'd be that Orson.

Nerdlingr

Dan_Solo wrote: »

This bit bothered me too. I don't see what Oberyn had to gain here at all by forcing Tywin's guilt into the open. As has been pointed out at length here, he was supposed to be playing the long game and bringing down the Lannisters, and I don't see how whatever The Mountain said would've bought anything other than personal satisfaction.

Only thing possibly he could have gained from it is that the Mace Tyrell was sitting on the council as well. Implicating Tywin in giving the order to murder and rape Elia Martell...and keeeel her children... might unsettle that alliance and lead to Highgarden and Dorne forming a partnership. (The Lannisters badly need the Martells onside). Not too mention giving Oberyn free reign to justifably take out Tywin.
The Mountain was Oberyn's last (and only) chance of proving Tywin guilt.

metroburgers

nuxxx wrote: »

The beetle speech was really bad, only downside for me. Didn't feel connected to anything

Beetle speech is about Tyrion despairing how he and society are oppressed by 'Morons' (oppressors/gods) who are indifferent to suffering/justice. At end of speech Tyrion picks the grub/beetle and releases it without harming it...
spot on here....

fitz wrote: »

This.
King Lear sprang to mind immediately..."As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods. They kill us for their sport."

bmwguy wrote: »

By the way Misandre has a great body, she is beautiful

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Why is there not more talk here of Missandei's boobies?