Season 4, Episode 8 - 'The Mountain and the Viper', HAVE NOT read the books

K_user

The Hound...

Surely he's fairly scr*wed now?

He's wounded, broke, his hostage is "worthless" to him. And he's a wanted man with no where to go.

He's a great character, and has really developed in his scenes with Arya, so where to next? Can't imagine he'd be too welcome in the Eyrie.

Will he flee across the seas to join a sellsword company? To the wall? Or just wander the 7 Kingdoms living hand to mouth?

Dan_Solo

K_user wrote: »

The Hound...

Surely he's fairly scr*wed now?

He's wounded, broke, his hostage is "worthless" to him. And he's a wanted man with no where to go.

He's a great character, and has really developed in his scenes with Arya, so where to next? Can't imagine he'd be too welcome in the Eyrie.

Will he flee across the seas to join a sellsword company? To the wall? Or just wander the 7 Kingdoms living hand to mouth?

Surely Sansa would welcome him as Arya's saviour?
And Littlefinger might see the benefit of having him around, it's not as they've if they aren't already harbouring public enemy number one.

DeVore

Arya's surely going to want to take refuge in the Eyrie and discover Sansa there?? They will surely intend to spend a night or two where her aunt was ruler regardless of whether she's dead now or not...

I dunno about the Hound being done for.... in some ways in this series if everything is going well for you , you're screwed lol!

stiffler123

If Tyrion gets executed, that's three of my five favorites dead. Bronn and Jamie, run for the hills lads. The good guys never seem to win in this show.

DeVore

If Tyrion dies... Bronn might as well have died too because its the last we will see of him (and yeah, I like him too!)

shruikan2553

They might keep the hound the the eyrie. Didnt he help sansa at some stage when she was at kings landing?

Dan_Solo

stiffler123 wrote: »

If Tyrion gets executed, that's three of my five favorites dead. Bronn and Jamie, run for the hills lads. The good guys never seem to win in this show.

Jamie (and Bronn) are the good guys?!?! :-)

kryogen

K_user wrote: »

The Hound...

Surely he's fairly scr*wed now?

He's wounded, broke, his hostage is "worthless" to him. And he's a wanted man with no where to go.

He's a great character, and has really developed in his scenes with Arya, so where to next? Can't imagine he'd be too welcome in the Eyrie.

Will he flee across the seas to join a sellsword company? To the wall? Or just wander the 7 Kingdoms living hand to mouth?

I worry about him, I am not sure where he has to go in terms of an arc now. Would hate to see him killed off, well, no thats not quite true, pretty desensitised to favourite characters being knocked off. I would hope it is done in some fashion befitting him though and not because of this wound that he hasn't treated properly.

The foreshadowing of that though would make you feel it is the most likely cause of his demise (if he does die)

The only future I can see for him, is if his brother is still alive and they build toward a final confrontation or resolution there, but I am pretty sure The Mountain is dead considering his injuries

kryogen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Jamie (and Bronn) are the good guys?!?! :-)

In comparison to Tywin/Cersei/The Boltons etc, yeah they basically are

Why do you do this with everything? Why is everything seemingly so hard for you to grasp? Nobody can actually watch the show and find things this basic so hard to follow by accident.

stiffler123

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Jamie (and Bronn) are the good guys?!?! :-)

I think you know what I meant. Over the four seasons, the bad guys have largely won.

Dan_Solo

kryogen wrote: »

In comparison to Tywin/Cersei/The Boltons etc, yeah they basically are

Why do you do this with everything? Why is everything seemingly so hard for you to grasp? Nobody can actually watch the show and find things this basic so hard to follow by accident.

If you think Jamie is a good guy I can only conclude you skipped the first two seasons. Why can't you comprehend such simple facts? Why are you incapable of following the most rudimentary storylines?

stiffler123

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If you think Jamie is a good guy I can only conclude you skipped the first two seasons. Why can't you comprehend such simple facts? Why are you incapable of following the most rudimentary storylines?

He's not an out and out bad guy, he's more of a grey character. He has good traits and bad ones.

Kold

Jaime isn't even nearly the worst of Westerosi nobility.

Sleepy

GerB40 wrote: »

There's a minor character from the book called Dickon Manwoody... Not as cool as the Targaryens but definitely memorable. (And don't worry, he's completely irrelevant to the tv show and his moment has passed anyway).

There's quite a few minor names mentioned in the books that are clear nods to various people IRL too (none of these impact plot but I'll spoiler them in case anyone intends to read the books after watching and wants to discover them for themselves), see how many you can figure out!

Lord Trebor Jordayne, Lord of the Tor.
House Costayne of Three Towers
House Deddings of the Riverlands
Harry Sawyer and Robin Potter
Lord Norbert Vance
Lharys, Kurleket and Mohar
Courtenay Greenhill

K_user

kryogen wrote: »

I worry about him, I am not sure where he has to go in terms of an arc now. Would hate to see him killed off, well, no thats not quite true, pretty desensitised to favourite characters being knocked off. I would hope it is done in some fashion befitting him though and not because of this wound that he hasn't treated properly.

The foreshadowing of that though would make you feel it is the most likely cause of his demise (if he does die)

The only future I can see for him, is if his brother is still alive and they build toward a final confrontation or resolution there, but I am pretty sure The Mountain is dead considering his injuries

Isn't that how Khal Drogo died? Just a small wound.

His Arc is shaky at best. If the Mountain is dead, his journey with Arya seems to be over, there is a huge price on his head. I just can't imagine where it could go. Unless he joins up with characters that have yet to be introduced.

He's just too good a character to lose, but as we know...

K_user

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Surely Sansa would welcome him as Arya's saviour?
And Littlefinger might see the benefit of having him around, it's not as they've if they aren't already harbouring public enemy number one.

I don't think that Sansa and the hound are exactly best buddies. He did save her from being raped and he did offer to take her with him when he left KL. But she never liked him. Course she has grown up a lot since then.

Not to mention that he is on Arya's list. How will she react when he's the prisoner?

Little Finger is a smart cookie. Sansa being at the Eyrie is a secret. Few people know who she is. If it were to get out, then his Lannister betrayal would come to light and I doubt he's ready for that.

Everyone knows the Hound. It would get back to KL if he were to stay at the Eyrie. And if he were to see Sansa, Little Finger couldn't let him live to tell the tale.

Just not looking good for the Hound.

wp_rathead

stiffler123 wrote: »

If Tyrion gets executed, that's three of my five favorites dead. Bronn and Jamie, run for the hills lads. The good guys never seem to win in this show.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Jamie (and Bronn) are the good guys?!?! :-)

kryogen wrote: »

In comparison to Tywin/Cersei/The Boltons etc, yeah they basically are

Why do you do this with everything? Why is everything seemingly so hard for you to grasp? Nobody can actually watch the show and find things this basic so hard to follow by accident.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If you think Jamie is a good guy I can only conclude you skipped the first two seasons. Why can't you comprehend such simple facts? Why are you incapable of following the most rudimentary storylines?

The beauty with this show is there is very little "GOOD" vs "EVIL" - majority of characters are more complex than that..

..Except Ramsay Snow - I want him to die more than Jeoffry!

Anachrony

wprathead wrote: »

The beauty with this show is there is very little "GOOD" vs "EVIL" - majority of characters are more complex than that..

Everyone always says that, but there are a significant number of purely evil characters who are never given any other dimensions than that. There are morally complex antagonists, yes, but there are also villains without that complexity. What there is a notable absence of are pure champions of good without character flaws. Brienne may come closest.

Awkward Badger

wprathead wrote: »

The beauty with this show is there is very little "GOOD" vs "EVIL" - majority of characters are more complex than that..

..Except Ramsay Snow - I want him to die more than Jeoffry!

He's Ramsey Bolton now, Roose's legitimate heir.

Dan_Solo

Pugsly wrote: »

He's Ramsey Bolton now, Roose's legitimate heir.

If Jon Snow hadn't gone to the wall I presume this might have happened to him too some day. D'oh.

Awkward Badger

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If Jon Snow hadn't gone to the wall I presume this might have happened to him too some day. D'oh.

Cant see any way in which it could have happened tbh. Ramsey seems to be Roose's only son. In Winterfell there was Rob, Bran, Rickon then the two girls with Catelyn hating the sight of him. He was never a Stark and there's no circumstance where he would have been one.

Dar

Unless Robb, Bran, Rickon and Arya were dead, and Sansa was married off to a Lannister....

But what are the odds of that happening?

Awkward Badger

Dar wrote: »

Unless Robb, Bran, Rickon and Arya were dead, and Sansa was married off to a Lannister....

But what are the odds of that happening?

Even that wouldn't make John Snow a Stark or heir to Winterfell. Thus you see just how unlikely it is...

For it to have happened all the actual Stark kids would have to be dead as well as Catelyn and Ned. The King and/or the houses of the North would have to back John's claim to Winterfell. Which wouldn't happen.

wp_rathead

Dan_Solo wrote: »

If Jon Snow hadn't gone to the wall I presume this might have happened to him too some day. D'oh.

Maybe - maybe not but if the Boltons are the anti-Starks then Ramsay is deffo the anti-Jon.. they even look similar enough (think guy playing Ramsay auditioned for role of Jon Snow)

Dan_Solo

But once a Snow is converted to a Stark/Bolton/whatever, isn't it just down to age who is next in line? Is he automatically end of the queue?

Sleepy

Yes. Legitimised bastards follow true-born children in matters of succession.

Iwasfrozen

Sleepy wrote: »

Yes. Legitimised bastards follow true-born children in matters of succession.

Legitimised bastards are equal to true born children in terms of succession.

Dan_Solo

Which is it? Is there a real world counterpart or is this explicit Westeros lore?

Iwasfrozen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Which is it? Is there a real world counterpart or is this explicit Westeros lore?

I don't know about the real world but in Westeros they're equal. In the books Roose ponders legitimising Ramsey to spare his house the bane of having a child lord when he dies.

Witcher

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Legitimised bastards are equal to true born children in terms of succession.

GRRM has said there is no hard rule on that, it's decided on a case by case basis.

So Spake Martin

There are no spoilers in the linked article but whatever else you click on while you're there is on you.