Season 4, Episode 8 - 'The Mountain and the Viper', HAVE NOT read the books

keith16

I don't get the love for Oberyn. I didn't care about his vengeance, or why he was able to stroll around Kings Landing and free to diss the Lannisters.

The fight was too short, the story about beetles was unnecessarily long.

Tbh, I was glad Oberyn was killed. Deserved IMO.

Guffy

keith16 wrote: »

I don't get the love for Oberyn. I didn't care about his vengeance, or why he was able to stroll around Kings Landing and free to diss the Lannisters.

The fight was too short, the story about beetles was unnecessarily long.

Tbh, I was glad Oberyn was killed. Deserved IMO.

Then you don't understand the game

Ann22

Am stunned at the violence at the end...omg! Shocked and sick... What'll become of poor Tyrion now???? I just love him, will be sh!tty if they kill him off. Tywin is a b*llox but what a presence- class actor!

Dan_Solo

keith16 wrote: »

I don't get the love for Oberyn. I didn't care about his vengeance, or why he was able to stroll around Kings Landing and free to diss the Lannisters.

I liked Oberyn, but I agree entirely about how odd his freedom of the city was. How can you have a guest at your palace who openly claims to want to kill every Lannister in Westeros? What was Tywin expecting from Oberyn except trouble?

Dan_Solo

I'm finding it difficult to understand how many people are claiming to be "shocked" or "stunned" by the ending scene. Is this the first episode of the series they have watched?!?!

degrassinoel

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I'm finding it difficult to understand how many people are claiming to be "shocked" or "stunned" by the ending scene. Is this the first episode of the series they have watched?!?!

It was a gruesome death, that's more what shocked me than anything else :eek:

probably the most gruesome one in the entire show, though Ned Stark's death was more of a shock, but far less graphic

Gadgie

degrassinoel wrote: »

It was a gruesome death, that's more what shocked me than anything else :eek:

probably the most gruesome one in the entire show, though Ned Stark's death was more of a shock, but far less graphic

I agree, it was the gruesomeness that shocked me, not the character death. I wouldn't have thought of myself as squeamish at all, but the auld 'thumbs-in-eyes' death scenes always unsettle me a bit!

I watched the episode again this evening, and my heart started pounding as the ending approached.

twinex

Still................T.r.A.u.M.a.T.i.S.e.D.

Dar

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I liked Oberyn, but I agree entirely about how odd his freedom of the city was. How can you have a guest at your palace who openly claims to want to kill every Lannister in Westeros? What was Tywin expecting from Oberyn except trouble?

Dorne is one of the few regions of Westeros that hasn't been devastated by the war, they represent a real military threat. The Martells have traditionally been Targaryen loyalists and despise the Lannisters after what happened to Elia. They have Cersei's daughter as a hostage.

Stannis is still fighting, the Greyjoys are in open rebellion, Danaerys is massing an army across the narrow sea, the Lannisters have major cashflow problems and there's an army of 100,000 wildlings marching on the wall. Tywin can't afford to add open warfare with Dorne to that list.

Iwasfrozen

keith16 wrote: »

I don't get the love for Oberyn. I didn't care about his vengeance, or why he was able to stroll around Kings Landing and free to diss the Lannisters.

The fight was too short, the story about beetles was unnecessarily long.

Tbh, I was glad Oberyn was killed. Deserved IMO.

Because in the show they have less time so they have to make Oberyn's hatred of all Lannisters more obvious.

J. Marston

Fúck whatever happened in the books. Do the whole episode again and make this happen instead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwPvGezWrVY

keith16

keith16 wrote: »

I don't get the love for Oberyn. I didn't care about his vengeance, or why he was able to stroll around Kings Landing and free to diss the Lannisters.

The fight was too short, the story about beetles was unnecessarily long.

Tbh, I was glad Oberyn was killed. Deserved IMO.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I liked Oberyn, but I agree entirely about how odd his freedom of the city was. How can you have a guest at your palace who openly claims to want to kill every Lannister in Westeros? What was Tywin expecting from Oberyn except trouble?

Oberyn's family have Cersei's only daughter Myrcella as a guest in Dorne. I reckon because of this, Oberyn felt he could take a shít on the Iron Throne if it so pleased him. Also, the guy was fearless and appeared to be not a known giver of f**ks.

keith16

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because in the show they have less time so they have to make Oberyn's hatred of all Lannisters more obvious.

Well that's the thing. I just didn't believe in his story. He didn't look like a man consumed by vengeance.

A lot of his early scenes showed him consumed by lust. Not exactly the behaviour of a man with a mission.

Guffy

keith16 wrote: »

Well that's the thing. I just didn't believe in his story. He didn't look like a man consumed by vengeance.

A lot of his early scenes showed him consumed by lust. Not exactly the behaviour of a man with a mission.

Well tbf he had to play the long game. He couldn't exactly go around openly accusing in public.

So what to do while we wait for an opportunity? Sit around brooding?

Dan_Solo

gufc21 wrote: »

Well tbf he had to play the long game. He couldn't exactly go around openly accusing in public.

So what to do while we wait for an opportunity? Sit around brooding?

He could've stabbed Tywin in the belly when he had the chance...

Turtyturd

Dan_Solo wrote: »

He could've stabbed Tywin in the belly when he had the chance...

Foolproof plan right there.

copeyhagen

pickarooney wrote: »

When is Cersei going to get knocked off? I'm so over her.

im not over knocking one off to Cersei

Dan_Solo

Turtyturd wrote: »

Foolproof plan right there.

As opposed to facing the mountain in single combat and he probably won't say what you want him to anyway?
If you think Tywin is guilty then I know which one is more likely to get him TBH.

pickarooney

Why exactly did the Lannisters send their daughter to live in Dorne? I just can't imagine a scenario where I would send my kid to live with a sworn enemy. It's almost as bad as sending them to the Gaeltacht.

Maximus Alexander

pickarooney wrote: »

Why exactly did the Lannisters send their daughter to live in Dorne? I just can't imagine a scenario where I would send my kid to live with a sworn enemy. It's almost as bad as sending them to the Gaeltacht.

Tyrion offers to marry her to Trystane Martell in order to win Dorne over during the war. They have to send her there in order to get Dorne onside because, well, the Martells hate the Lannisters.

Dan_Solo

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Tyrion offers to marry her to Trystane Martell in order to win Dorne over during the war. They have to send her there in order to get Dorne onside because, well, the Martells hate the Lannisters.

Everybody seems to hate the Lannisters, except maybe the Boltons.
Why did they all side with them against the North?

Maximus Alexander

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Everybody seems to hate the Lannisters, except maybe the Boltons.
Why did they all side with them against the North?

Well the above is one example, they're very good at playing on people's fear and / or greed.

Dar

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Everybody seems to hate the Lannisters, except maybe the Boltons.
Why did they all side with them against the North?

Only the Tyrells and some of Renly's bannermen have sided with the Lannisters.

The Tullys sided with the north. The Greyjoys are doing their own thing, and Houses Martell and Arynn are sitting on the sidelines.

kryogen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

As opposed to facing the mountain in single combat and he probably won't say what you want him to anyway?
If you think Tywin is guilty then I know which one is more likely to get him TBH.

He needs more then just Tywin dead, he needs more then just his accusation.

The mountain was the only man who could confirm the accusation, he needed a public confession from him, it is not simply Tywin he wants it is the whole family. He wanted to destroy them all, he may have been able to kill Tywin, sure, but then he dies, the Lannisters are still in partnership with the old womans family, and they both go to war with Dorn, in fact all of the rest of the seven kingdoms would be forced to go to war with Dorn if he murdered Tywin like that.

He does not want to see his people or his home destroyed, he wants vengence, it seemed pretty simple to follow to me anyway, and plausible. He had done so well holding his anger in check until the fight with the mountain when his emotions got the better of him, he lost his cool and he made a mistake, and against the mountain as Bronn so accurately put, one mistake and you are a dead man.

kryogen

pickarooney wrote: »

Why exactly did the Lannisters send their daughter to live in Dorne? I just can't imagine a scenario where I would send my kid to live with a sworn enemy. It's almost as bad as sending them to the Gaeltacht.

It seems to be a common thing in the old days, it was done in The Borgias too. Its an insurance thing, the family member goes there as a "guest"/hostage to ensure there is no foul play

Dar

pickarooney wrote: »

Why exactly did the Lannisters send their daughter to live in Dorne? I just can't imagine a scenario where I would send my kid to live with a sworn enemy. It's almost as bad as sending them to the Gaeltacht.

At the time that Tyrion send Myrcella south, Robb Stark was still alive and had won every battle. Stannis was still threatening Kings Landing. The alliance with the Tyrells had not yet been brokered. Arryn and Martell were undeclared. The Lannisters were surrounded by enemies. Giving the Martells a hostage was a small price to pay to keep them out of the conflict.

Nerdlingr

kryogen wrote: »

It seems to be a common thing in the old days, it was done in The Borgias too. Its an insurance thing, the family member goes there as a "guest"/hostage to ensure there is no foul play

Just as Theon was hostage/'guest' of the Starks. Its an insurance policy.

Mickeroo

Pretty well established at this stage that noble children, particularly daughters, are bargaining chips. Even Cersei is still treated that way.

Turtyturd

Dan_Solo wrote: »

As opposed to facing the mountain in single combat and he probably won't say what you want him to anyway?
If you think Tywin is guilty then I know which one is more likely to get him TBH.

I was beaten to it, but it's fairly obvious why he acted the way he did. I look forward to next weeks episode of 'Dan Solo nitpicks at something that is blatantly obvious.' :pac:

---

Has the tension between Dorne/Martells and HighGarden/Tyrells been touched on in the show?

Dan_Solo

kryogen wrote: »

in fact all of the rest of the seven kingdoms would be forced to go to war with Dorn if he murdered Tywin like that.

Westeros houses just seem to do what they like when they like. Hard to imagine them all committing to war over this, even if Oberyn got his confession.