Random Running Questions

RoyMcC

walshb wrote: »

How accurate are the long jump measuring rules in the major tournaments? Is it down to humans to decide where the athlete lands? And, is it live? No chance for them to watch a video of the jump?

You'd wonder after the fiasco in the US over Rutherford's record, but that was a bit of a tinpot affair. It's pretty accurate - as said above the landing spot is obvious and they take it back to the board from the nearest mark. The uncertainty is often in the legality of the take-off foot.

davedanon

RoyMcC wrote: »

You'd wonder after the fiasco in the US over Rutherford's record, but that was a bit of a tinpot affair. It's pretty accurate - as said above the landing spot is obvious and they take it back to the board from the nearest mark. The uncertainty is often in the legality of the take-off foot.

the take-off is definitely videoed, though. Usually it's shown in slo-mo, so there can be little doubt.

RoyMcC

davedanon wrote: »

the take-off is definitely videoed, though. Usually it's shown in slo-mo, so there can be little doubt.

It's video'd for TV only I think. The officials don't refer to it. They go by eyesight and the marks, if any, made by the spikes in the plastecine beyond the board.

walshb

Can WRs in distances be broken as part of another distance? Say the mile, can the 1500 record be broken and verified and accepted during the course of the mile? I think it can.

Which has me asking: What about the 60 meters WR. I seem to recall reading Usain Bolt's 20 metre split times from Berlin 2009. I am almost certain that he hit 60 meters at a time that is less than the 60 metre world record or 6.39 seconds

http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/19/usain-bolt-10-meter-splits-fastest-top-speed-2008-vs-2009/

Would anyone have challenged this and wanted it accepted as a 60 metre record?

Probably best to ask the IAAF, but maybe someone here may know?

28064212

walshb wrote: »

Can WRs in distances be broken as part of another distance? Say the mile, can the 1500 record be broken and verified and accepted during the course of the mile? I think it can.

Which has me asking: What about the 60 meters WR. I seem to recall reading Usain Bolt's 20 metre split times from Berlin 2009. I am almost certain that he hit 60 meters at a time that is less than the 60 metre world record or 6.39 seconds

http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/19/usain-bolt-10-meter-splits-fastest-top-speed-2008-vs-2009/

Would anyone have challenged this and wanted it accepted as a 60 metre record?

Probably best to ask the IAAF, but maybe someone here may know?

Depends on whether there's official timing at the required split up to the same standard as the finish timing. Was Bolt's 60m splits officially timed? Or was it calculated using other input?

The 1500m world record has been set in the mile a number of times: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1500_metres_world_record_progression

Clearlier

walshb wrote: »

Can WRs in distances be broken as part of another distance? Say the mile, can the 1500 record be broken and verified and accepted during the course of the mile? I think it can.

Which has me asking: What about the 60 meters WR. I seem to recall reading Usain Bolt's 20 metre split times from Berlin 2009. I am almost certain that he hit 60 meters at a time that is less than the 60 metre world record or 6.39 seconds

http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/19/usain-bolt-10-meter-splits-fastest-top-speed-2008-vs-2009/

Would anyone have challenged this and wanted it accepted as a 60 metre record?

Probably best to ask the IAAF, but maybe someone here may know?

When they changed from yards to metres as the standard measurement they sometimes had a second line after the finish line to allow records to be set for yards as well as metres, e.g. 400m is 437 yards so just short of 440 yards.

They would have to have an official timing system in place for both lines in order to record records.

walshb

28064212 wrote: »

Depends on whether there's official timing at the required split up to the same standard as the finish timing. Was Bolt's 60m splits officially timed? Or was it calculated using other input?

I am not sure on that. Would love to know.

rainbow kirby

I thought 60m was an indoor-only distance for world records...

walshb

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I thought 60m was an indoor-only distance for world records...

Good point...

Bolt's 2009 run was as close to complete perfection as possible, from meter 1 to metre 100.

28064212

walshb wrote: »

I am not sure on that. Would love to know.

According to wiki, "records for the 60 m can only be set in that specific event". Not sourced, but the IAAF also doesn't display any 60m record for outdoors

walshb

28064212 wrote: »

According to wiki, "records for the 60 m can only be set in that specific event". Not sourced, but the IAAF also doesn't display any 60m record for outdoors

Brilliant find. At least it made specific reference to my query, and it seems to imply that the split times were official and verifiable from the IAAF.

Netwerk Errer

walshb wrote: »

Brilliant find. At least it made specific reference to my query, and it seems to imply that the split times were official and verifiable from the IAAF.

Yeah, split times can be ratified as records. The most recent one was Mutai's 30k split in Berlin when Kimetto set the marathon WR. Mutai's 30k split was 1.27:26.

TFBubendorfer

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Yeah, split times can be ratified as records. The most recent one was Mutai's 30k split in Berlin when Kimetto set the marathon WR. Mutai's 30k split was 1.27:26.

And before that, the 30k world record had been held by Patrick Makau on his way to HIS then-marathon world record.

For records of shorter distance than the actual race to count they have to be measured and timed officially, and the runner MUST complete the original race.

Interestingly, his pacer had been a step ahead of Makau at the 30k mark, but he did not finish the marathon and hence that record did not count. Had he continued, even had he walked to the finish, that pacer would have been the official 30k world record holder rather than Makau.

ultrapercy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

And before that, the 30k world record had been held by Patrick Makau on his way to HIS then-marathon world record.

For records of shorter distance than the actual race to count they have to be measured and timed officially, and the runner MUST complete the original race.

Interestingly, his pacer had been a step ahead of Makau at the 30k mark, but he did not finish the marathon and hence that record did not count. Had he continued, even had he walked to the finish, that pacer would have been the official 30k world record holder rather than Makau.

I find that amazing.. I wonder was he aware of that situation when he stepped off the course? You would think that a world record, of any kind, would be enough motivation for an athlete to finish.

ECOLII

To further add to the 30k convolution strictly speaking that is roads only as Mose Mosop currently holds the 30,000m record in a time of 1.26.47 from 2011 (Prefontaine Classic). He also set the 25,000m record enroute

Netwerk Errer

There's loads of en route records:

http://www.iaaf.org/records/by-category/world-records

Geb- One hour track record(set 20,000 en route)

Tadesse- HM WR(set road 20k en route)

Kimetto- Marathon WR(set road 25k en route)(Mutai set road 30k en route)

Moses Mosop- 30,000m WR( set track 25,000m en route)

I haven't even looked at the Women's side but I presume it's the same. Paula Radcliffe owning every road WR from 25k-Marathon.

Krusty_Clown

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

And before that, the 30k world record had been held by Patrick Makau on his way to HIS then-marathon world record.

For records of shorter distance than the actual race to count they have to be measured and timed officially, and the runner MUST complete the original race.

Interestingly, his pacer had been a step ahead of Makau at the 30k mark, but he did not finish the marathon and hence that record did not count. Had he continued, even had he walked to the finish, that pacer would have been the official 30k world record holder rather than Makau.

I noticed that when I was watching it at the time and wondered why the pacer(s) were not given the world record. Seems to be set-up to support the superstars!

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I noticed that when I was watching it at the time and wondered why the pacer(s) were not given the world record. Seems to be set-up to support the superstars!

I remember the commentators talking about it afterwards, which is why I know that rule.

ultrapercy wrote: »

I find that amazing.. I wonder was he aware of that situation when he stepped off the course? You would think that a world record, of any kind, would be enough motivation for an athlete to finish.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? The the pacer may have been "encouraged" to leave the official world record to the star runner - which ties in with what Krusty said.

robinph

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

You'd think so, wouldn't you? The the pacer may have been "encouraged" to leave the official world record to the star runner - which ties in with what Krusty said.

Are the pacemakers allowed to finish in Berlin? Some races they are not so wouldn't get their pacemaking payment I guess if they finish and that will be the main thing on his mind.

There is not much chance for the guy to be told to just jog in though and you'll get a world record as they are going along the race, it's not like anyone in the lead car will know, or care, about some minor world record that has just been ticked off. The pacemakers manager will be the only person that cares, and I can't see there being a setup where he could get a message to one of the marshal cyclists to then try and explain to the pacemaker in who knows what language that he just needs to jog in.

But I'd be mighty annoyed afterwards if I found out I'd got a record en-route and missed it due to not finishing the marathon.

ECOLII

robinph wrote: »

Are the pacemakers allowed to finish in Berlin? Some races they are not so wouldn't get their pacemaking payment I guess if they finish and that will be the main thing on his mind.

There is not much chance for the guy to be told to just jog in though and you'll get a world record as they are going along the race, it's not like anyone in the lead car will know, or care, about some minor world record that has just been ticked off. The pacemakers manager will be the only person that cares, and I can't see there being a setup where he could get a message to one of the marshal cyclists to then try and explain to the pacemaker in who knows what language that he just needs to jog in.

But I'd be mighty annoyed afterwards if I found out I'd got a record en-route and missed it due to not finishing the marathon.

Abel Kirui was 9th after pace making for the 2006 Berlin marathon
Also funny enough the guy in 2nd to Makau was a pacer Stephen Kwelio Chemlany (pretty sure not the same guy the one who was leading the splits at 30k)

robinph

Actually, didn't a pace maker win Berlin one year...or am I remembering that wrong? Much easier to spot them when they are wearing the Shaftsbury club vests, I guess it's London they are not allowed to finish then.

ECOLII

robinph wrote: »

Actually, didn't a pace maker win Berlin one year...or am I remembering that wrong? Much easier to spot them when they are wearing the Shaftsbury club vests, I guess it's London they are not allowed to finish then.

I think that was Chemlany, remember him getting alot of tv attention that year (after that you would probably have to look back pre 2005 for a race where that is a possibility)

dublin runner

Regarding en-route record, does the course elevation profile still matter? Let's say the 30k mark in the marathon had a net elevation loss or whatever. I would imagine so, right?!

28064212

dublin runner wrote: »

Regarding en-route record, does the course elevation profile still matter? Let's say the 30k mark in the marathon had a net elevation loss or whatever. I would imagine so, right?!

• In road events, the course is not required to be a circuit, but the overall decrease in elevation between the start and finish shall not exceed 1:1000, i.e. 1 m/km.
• In road events, the start and finish points of a course, measured along a theoretical straight line between them, shall not be further apart than 50% of the race distance.

I assume once these criteria are satisfied, there's no problem

robinph

dublin runner wrote: »

Regarding en-route record, does the course elevation profile still matter? Let's say the 30k mark in the marathon had a net elevation loss or whatever. I would imagine so, right?!

I wouldn't fancy going for a fast time on that course. If there is enough elevation loss in the first 30km to make it invalid, but it's OK over the full 42km then the end of the course will be a disaster.

TFBubendorfer

robinph wrote: »

Are the pacemakers allowed to finish in Berlin? Some races they are not so wouldn't get their pacemaking payment I guess if they finish and that will be the main thing on his mind

As far as I know, in road races pacers must be allowed to finish officially if they wish to do so. That's a rule for the roads only and does apply to the track.

RonanP77

I was just wondering what people do after their stretches?

When I finish a run I'll spend a few minutes stretching then hop in the car and go home. Should I be going for a short little walk after stretching?

pointer28

Run, then walk for 5 mins, then stretch.

menoscemo

pointer28 wrote: »

Run, then walk for 5 mins, then stretch.

No one walks for 5 minutes after their run.

RonanP77

I always walk about the car park/picnic area for about a minute after a run. If doing that for a little longer helps, I'll give it a go. So is there no need for a little walk after stretching then?