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Have you done ecstasy or MDMA.

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    #182
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    end of the road wrote: »
    wrong, buying consumer products supports forced labour/child labour/slavery, people are often forced into working with beatings and raping used to keep the workers in line

    I don't disagree.

    But this impacts the violent drug criminals issue not one iota. It is "whataboutery".
    end of the road wrote: »
    tough, you want to keep the illegal drugs illegal then violent criminals organized crime and all the other problems are a price to pay

    Blame shifting. The people who buy illegal drugs from criminals are the people responsible for financing drug crime.


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    #183
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    TheGlass wrote: »
    It is a result of failed legislation. Humans have always and will always seek to alter their minds. Look at what prohibition did in America, it created criminal empires. You can go on about supporting criminality all night, but the criminals wouldn't exist if we had a sensible drugs policy and an education system that said more than just 'All drugs are bad don't do them'.

    That may be. But the person who goes out tonight and buys illegal drugs does so knowing that they are funding violent crime.


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    #184
    MaroonAndGreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭MaroonAndGreen


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I don't disagree.

    But this impacts the violent drug criminals issue not one iota. It is "whataboutery".



    Blame shifting. The people who buy illegal drugs from criminals are the people responsible for financing drug crime.

    The criminals are responsible for it. Not harmless 18-30 year olds going out having a good night. There would be no crime related to MDMA if it was regulated and not banned or (wrongly) classed as a Class A drug


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    #185
    Gerard92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Gerard92


    The majority of fatalities from bad pills could be prevented by testing what you bought. Test kits are cheap and available from sites like amazon... MDMA itself is a harmless drug, it does not cause deaths, PMA/PMMA does.


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    #186
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Philo Beddoe wrote: »
    The only way you're going to prevent violent drug-related crime is to take the drug business out of the hands of criminals.

    Drug users (including those on this forum) can do their bit TODAY by not funding criminals. If they don't they are directly funding violent crime. They may talk about legislation as a fig-leaf, but they have blood on their hands.


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    #187
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    That may be. But the person who goes out tonight and buys illegal drugs does so knowing that they are funding violent crime.

    That's a pretty good argument for altering some failing laws that are protecting nobody and creating problems.


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    #188
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    MaroonAndGreen wrote: »
    The criminals are responsible for it. Not harmless 18-30 year olds going out having a good night.

    They are both responsible. Users pay criminals and incentivise the violence.


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    #189
    MaroonAndGreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭MaroonAndGreen


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    They are both responsible. Users pay criminals and incentivise the violence.

    I am not funding violent crime. Im paying my trusted (non-violent) dealer, what he/she does with it is not my problem.


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    #190
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    That's a pretty good argument for altering some failing laws that are protecting nobody and creating problems.

    Perhaps, and I've never said I'm against legislation. But, that doesn't change the fact that users are supporting crime today by buying drugs.


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    #191
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    That may be. But the person who goes out tonight and buys illegal drugs does so knowing that they are funding violent crime.
    The person who today continues to support prohibition is actively encouraging violent crime.


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    #192
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The person who today continues to support prohibition is actively encouraging violent crime.

    No he's not. Drug users and drug dealers are.


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    #193
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,692 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    That may be. But the person who goes out tonight and buys illegal drugs does so knowing that they are funding violent crime.

    In many cases you are correct.

    But what about people purchasing things like home grown drugs, from a friend for example? Someone who isn't involved in 'violent crime'?

    You can't just assume everyone buys their 'stuff' from their 'local evil drug lord'.

    There are many shades of grey in this one - as I said in another thread, it's not quite as black and white as you'd like.

    Then again, when is anything?


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    #194
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Drug users (including those on this forum) can do their bit TODAY by not funding criminals.
    Are you telling me that if I don't go out and buy some pills now it will do anything to reduce the number of pills consumed?

    I'd be shocked if there's ever been a time in the last 20 years when supply of drugs has outpaced demand. the fact is if you don't buy them someone else will.


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    #195
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    o1s1n wrote: »
    But what about people purchasing things like home grown drugs, from a friend for example? Someone who isn't involved in 'violent crime'?

    This is a grey area of course, it is still illegal of course, and helps foster demand for illegal supply.


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    #196
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Drug users (including those on this forum) can do their bit TODAY by not funding criminals. If they don't they are directly funding violent crime. They may talk about legislation as a fig-leaf, but they have blood on their hands.

    That's kind of irrelevant though, because it's not something that's ever going to change. People will continue to buy drugs regardless of their legal status.

    It's similar to how we are all completely aware that our activities contribute to climate change. The power is in each of our hands to do our bit TODAY by not burning fossil fuels, but we still do. We could cycle everywhere, stop taking flights to holiday destinations, dramatically cut our electricity usage by wrapping up in extra layers and leaving the heating off, reading by candlelight instead of watching television, and more. But we don't, and we won't.

    Your rhetoric is all well and good, but it is meaningless with respect to reality. If you're concerned about violent criminals funded by drugs, then the only way that will ever be stopped is by taking the business out of their hands through legislative changes. Lecturing recreational drug users and looking down your nose at them isn't worth a damn.

    I don't even use illegal drugs, I'm just rational.


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    #197
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    No he's not. Drug users and drug dealers are.
    Drug dealers wouldn't exist without prohibition. Prohibition creates the problem, if you support prohibition you support organized crime.


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    #198
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I don't disagree.

    But this impacts the violent drug criminals issue not one iota. It is "whataboutery".



    Blame shifting. The people who buy illegal drugs from criminals are the people responsible for financing drug crime.
    and those who support prohibition facilitate people to support these people

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #199
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Are you telling me that if I don't go out and buy some pills now it will do anything to reduce the number of pills consumed?

    Yes. Of course. Economics101
    ScumLord wrote: »
    I'd be shocked if there's ever been a time in the last 20 years when supply of drugs has outpaced demand. the fact is if you don't buy them someone else will.

    That is simply not true, in the long run. Demand matters. If people took responsibility for their actions they would not buy illegal drugs and demand would fall.


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    #200
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Drug dealers wouldn't exist without prohibition. Prohibition creates the problem, if you support prohibition you support organized crime.

    No. That is simply bad logic.


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    #201
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,692 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    This is a grey area of course, it is still illegal of course, and helps foster demand for illegal supply.

    Sorry but my own moral compass doesn't really factor in 'legal' or 'illegal'.

    What it does factor in is 'does what I do damage or hurt the lives of others?'

    If the answer to that is a resounding 'no' then I couldn't give a toss if it's legal or illegal.

    If more people cared about their fellow man and got a little less caught up in bureaucracy, the world would be a much better place.


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    #202
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Awful bang of self-righteousness coming off this thread.


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    #203
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Drug users (including those on this forum) can do their bit TODAY by not funding criminals. If they don't they are directly funding violent crime. They may talk about legislation as a fig-leaf, but they have blood on their hands.
    no they couldn't, they want to get high, so they have no option, so its tough ****, because the prohibitionists have facilitated the problem

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #204
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    They are both responsible. Users pay criminals and incentivise the violence.
    and prohibitionists facilitate that transaction

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #205
    pO1Neil
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 354 ✭✭pO1Neil


    Yes, I did a lot when from around 18 - 23/24. It's the most amazing feeling in the world when you get those lovely rushes up & down your spine & sit there talking strangers for hours. Feel like sh!t tho for a few days after. But was deffo worth it.

    I've also done Coke, Hash, Weed, Mephadrone, several Benzo's (Xanax Bars were my fav), & milder opiates.


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    #206
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,692 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    Awful bang of self-righteousness coming off this thread.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of self-righteousness, as long as it's not indignant :pac:


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    #207
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Perhaps, and I've never said I'm against legislation. But, that doesn't change the fact that users are supporting crime today by buying drugs.
    their not, wrong, not all criminals or the high up dealers are violent

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #208
    TheGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TheGlass


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Yes. Of course. Economics101



    That is simply not true, in the long run. Demand matters. If people took responsibility for their actions they would not buy illegal drugs and demand would fall.

    An understanding of human nature and our history shows there will always be a demand. Saying oh if people took responsibility doesn't work. Current legislation has lead to that demand being filled by criminals


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    #209
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    No he's not. Drug users and drug dealers are.
    yes he is, drug users aren't

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #210
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Yes. Of course. Economics101



    That is simply not true, in the long run. Demand matters. If people took responsibility for their actions they would not buy illegal drugs and demand would fall.
    the same for legal drugs? not going to happen so get over it, prohibitionists are to blame for keeping a failed system

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #211
    Mike747
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 383 ✭✭Mike747


    irishdude11 wrote: »
    I think Ecstasy is the best feeling in the world, at least as good as sex...but I don't think I will be doing it again as I nearly ended topping myself due to the depression it induced.

    Sounds good, looking forward to trying it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D1gJ_GygAI


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