Bloodborne (From Software / Sony)

tok9

Disappointing just due to wanting it but it's not really a surprise.

February is packed with games including another Sony exclusive. Hopefully the extra time is used to optimise the framerate.

Otacon

tok9 wrote: »

Hopefully the extra time is used to optimise the framerate.

...or just making doubly sure the online aspects work!

heebusjeebus

Otacon wrote: »

...or just making doubly sure the online aspects work!

At these they provided that alpha last month to test the online features. Why Drive Club didn't do that is beyond me.

tok9

Otacon wrote: »

...or just making doubly sure the online aspects work!

Oh I'm sure this will help in optimising the game. They won't just finish it and leave it for an extra month but I'm sure Sony were more than happy to push it back.

murphyebass

tok9 wrote: »

Disappointing just due to wanting it but it's not really a surprise.

February is packed with games including another Sony exclusive. Hopefully the extra time is used to optimise the framerate.

Have to say I'm disappointed on this news too as I'm dying to play it.

Otacon

heebusjeebus wrote: »

At these they provided that alpha last month to test the online features. Why Drive Club didn't do that is beyond me.

DriveClub did have a closed beta. However, the servers they were running on were not the same ones used when it went live - which is why so many reviews didn't mention any issues.

It was a software issue on the servers they ended up going live on that caused the problem.

But that is for another thread. Personally, I think Bloodborne will be fine. It is not as network-intensive as DC for a start.

Sephiroth_dude

Glad its delayed tbh, releasing it two weeks before the witcher was madness!

2smiggy

can't wait to play it, but might not be a bad thing delaying it, both for polishing the game , and also for commercial reasons.

Captain Chaos

Delay it all they want and don't rush out an AC Unity game.

F1ngers

New Bloodborne gameplay video shows off a new area & multiplayer interactivity

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/12/06/new-bloodborne-gameplay-video-shows-new-area-multiplayer-interactivity/?adbid=541207975046569984&adbpl=tw&adbpr=36969785&emcid=social_20141206_36842237

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h5jRhKRX0Q

tok9

Some new info from the Playstation Experience. I'll spoiler it in case anyone doesn't want to read.

Here's a quick run-down of a few of Miyazaki's notes from the panel:

• Over 10 maps in the world.
• Each map is unique with it's own "situation."
• The Chalice dungeon is a multi-layered map located in the city's lower levels
• Procedurally generated, but massive, spanning the entire underground area of the city.
• Each area in the underground has a holy chalice; finding that allows you to break the seal and access another section.
• By multi-layer, that means there are three layers to present different surprises and traps to widen the game's strategy
• After generating your dungeon through the Holy Chalice ritual, it stays fixed. That allows players the opportunity to master each dungeon while still providing "fresh and interesting" experiences.
• Assume the difficulty level of the dungeons is high. They won't be easy to breeze through.
• Like Demon's Souls, the focus on is on the sense of accomplishment and achievement after clearing a dungeon.
• Increase the scale of sharing. Players will be able to share generated dungoens and the methods they used to complete them. You can narrow those down to specific communities or just a close group of friends.
• The Chalice Dungeon isn't tied into the main story; it's optional.


And points from the Q&A:

• Character customization will be about on level with Dark Souls II, but there will also be some unique features. As an action-RPG, it'll have everything "to be expected from an RPG."
• The team is working to keep the game running at the highest frame rate they can, and the final specifications will depend on what works best for the experience.
• There is PvP in the game.
• There might be something along the lines of the fight in Dark Souls II where you took on the role of a boss and fought against another player.
• The concept of dying and Hollowing from Demon's/Dark Souls will exist in some form in Bloodborne as well.
• The dungeon you saw during the keynote was made for the presentation; the actual dungeons will be much larger and more complex.

There was some new footage too, I'm sure it on youtube somewhere.

F1ngers

tok9 wrote: »

There was some new footage too, I'm sure it on youtube somewhere.

It's the spoiler in my post previous to yours.

tok9

Thats' from the game awards.

There was another gameplay stream at Playstation experience and they had a panel later so might have been more there again.

Mickeroo

Here's that gameplay footage, doesn't really show anything major but looks great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h5jRhKRX0Q

tok9

There is definitely some more footage from yesterday as it shows off the random dungeon mentioned in the spoilers and we see a huge dog like boss with a skull similar to a crocodile.

It would be pretty early in the playstation twitch stream as it was in the keynote.

tok9

Here it is, enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cOyjnGOfYQ

F1ngers

Bloodborne: Everything You Need to Know – IGN First

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2015/01/30/bloodborne-everything-you-need-to-know-ign-first

Not much there yet, but says to check back.

Xenji

YouSavedMyLife

I wanna watch it but i dont wanna watch it..........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Zero-Cool

That looks class! I was worried about the guns but they look like they work like crossbows, rare ammo and used to hit unreachable enemies/keep enemies at a distance. Damn it, I thought this would be a lot more actiony and uninteresting, I think I'll have to add it to my list.

spiritcrusher

The map is quite different from any souls game it seems. Very mazy and claustrophobic. Any information out there on what kinds of combat builds can be done? Played DS1 as melee and DS2 using magic so I like having the choice.
Couple of people complaining about the graphics on youtube already. What were they expecting? As if From have ever shown any interest in putting time into cutting edge graphics.

Kirby

"Graphics" is a broad term. The issue is how they characters on screen move and interact. It's very 90's era. There is no fluidity to anything and the player seems to float above the house and street...not walk through it.

I really wish they would hire some new animators. The characters and enemies all move with the same spastic jankyness as weve seen from From Software for years. Compare how they move to characters in the Last of Us. Naughty Dog is a sony studio too....maybe they could lend some expertise.

gizmo

Kirby wrote: »

"Graphics" is a broad term. The issue is how they characters on screen move and interact. It's very 90's era. There is no fluidity to anything and the player seems to float above the house and street...not walk through it.

I really wish they would hire some new animators. The characters and enemies all move with the same spastic jankyness as weve seen from From Software for years. Compare how they move to characters in the Last of Us. Naughty Dog is a sony studio too....maybe they could lend some expertise.

It's not really the animators fault though. Both Demons Souls and Dark Souls featured animations which were entirely hand-animated, a rather stark departure from more modern games where there's at least some mo-cap done before animators move in and clean up the resulting output. Dark Souls 2 changed this with some mo-cap being employed which led to visibly improved animations across the board.

In terms of general fluidity though, I was always under the impression that the animation setup was entirely intentional for the Souls series. Attacks are slow, deliberate and carry a real weight to them. Once you've committed to an attack, you're in for the long haul. Where this can fall down is their somewhat janky physics implementation which can lead to rather questionable hit detection at times.

Were they to change this, however, they may run the risk of it not feeling as Souls-like as it once was. Perhaps it's something they just don't want to change? I've yet to play Lords of the Fallen but that appeared to move more in a Dark Souls but with smoother animation and attack cancelling type direction?

Kirby

gizmo wrote: »

In terms of general fluidity though, I was always under the impression that the animation setup was entirely intentional for the Souls series. Attacks are slow, deliberate and carry a real weight to them. Once you've committed to an attack, you're in for the long haul. Where this can fall down is their somewhat janky physics implementation which can lead to rather questionable hit detection at times.

No see, that's a design choice. And that's fine. Whether a person likes it or not that their attacks are slow and can be punished isn't the issue there. It's fine because its a choice, done on purpose.

I'm talking about the animation itself, not how long you are vulnerable when you miss an attack. Forget about attacking, just look at the way he moves around. When he strafes from right to left. There is no transition frames there. It goes from Mode A "Strafe right" to "Mode B "Strafe left" with nothing inbetween. Compare these two bouncing balls for an example of what I'm talking about.



I've only touched this area and there is more to examine. But there is a difference between youtube idiots screaming "M0r grffix plx lol" and being disappointed in how Bloodborne is shaping up. These aren't design choices. It's lack of talent. From need to hire some new people.

gizmo

Kirby wrote: »

I'm talking about the animation itself, not how long you are vulnerable when you miss an attack. Forget about attacking, just look at the way he moves around. When he strafes from right to left. There is no transition frames there. It goes from Mode A "Strafe right" to "Mode B "Strafe left" with nothing inbetween. Compare these two bouncing balls for an example of what I'm talking about.

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I've only touched this area and there is more to examine. But there is a difference between youtube idiots screaming "M0r grffix plx lol" and being disappointed in how Bloodborne is shaping up. These aren't design choices. It's lack of talent. From need to hire some new people.

Ah! Well, the issue you're describing there is one of animation blending, or lack thereof, between the various animations. The cause of this could be anything from poor animations themselves to underlying issues with their engine or the work they've done on top of PhyreEngine. Assuming it hasn't been done by actual choice, the problem with fixing this is that it's not just a case of a lack of individual talent, it's a lack of budget.

To put it in context, for Dark Souls 2 the FROM animation team consisted of one animator for the player and four assigned to the enemies with the rest of the content being produced by various outsourcing companies. Uncharted 3, on the other hand, had over 40 animators on the project between ND staff and other Sony employees alone. The latter, it seems, are confined to working on projects across other SCE Worldwide Studios, not ones simply published by the company.

As to why Sony don't invest more in the project, your guess is as good as mine there.

Kirby

I take your point about investment but talent is the crux of it. There are beautifully made games out there made by single people or small teams of people. Throwing money at it works, but so does hiring talented people.

And the souls games are good sellers. We aren't talking nichie indie games here....they sell millions of copies. The studio can afford to hire a few new people.

Frankly it seems a shame to create lovely worlds, and populate them with characters that move like Mr game and watch.

gizmo

Kirby wrote: »

I take your point about investment but talent is the crux of it. There are beautifully made games out there made by single people or small teams of people. Throwing money at it works, but so does hiring talented people.

And the souls games are good sellers. We aren't talking nichie indie games here....they sell millions of copies. The studio can afford to hire a few new people.

Frankly it seems a shame to create lovely worlds, and populate them with characters that move like Mr game and watch.

Oh I'm in complete agreement with you on the need to hire more talented people, the only distinction I make is that it would be to supplement their team rather than replace the existing members due to a perceived lack of talent. It's also quite possible to create a beautiful looking game with a smaller team but with a series like Dark Souls, where there are so many different animations required for various weapons, spells and then enemy variants on top of that, attempting to do so with a tiny animation team and relying heavily on outsourced work more than likely isn't going to result in the kind of quality many people expect.

My budget comment also isn't just about pure monetary investment to throw people at it but to give their team the time to create and then refine their work. As you've said, there's some lovely content in the series but the lack of polish in that area is particularly disappointing, especially in the face of such excellent design.

As for the sales justifying the development costs, it's worth bearing in mind that they're good sellers, not stellar ones. Both Dark Souls titles, for instance, racked up a little over two million copies across both console platforms internationally. Figuring out Demons Souls sales is rather difficult given the staggered launch and different publishers. Regardless, while it certainly deserves a bigger budget, again, expectations should be tempered for a relatively niche PS4 only release.

Zero-Cool

Great read about ign's first 2 hours. Sounds brilliant! Spoilers about the start of the game but talks about a lot if gameplay, combat, etc that i didn't know about before but making me want to buy the game more knowing about it.

http://m.ie.ign.com/articles/2015/02/03/bloodborne-hands-on-we-were-punished-and-we-liked-it-ign-first

SpaceSasqwatch

I'd buy a ps4 for this

tok9

I'm far too deep into the Souls/Bloodborne games to watch or read any of this first 2 hours content.