How did *you* get lean and muscly?

whirlpool

How did you make yourself lean and muscly?

Did you use a personal trainer?

Did you follow a workout program you found online / in a magazine / in a book and just trust it?

Did you just go to the gym and blindly work out?

Did you just buy weights and start working out at home?

Did you follow a program at all and if so, where did you get it from?

And so on and so forth.....

Zillah

You started your last thread a week ago. Just join a gym and stop talking about it already.

There are lots of ways to get fit. Procrastinating online isn't one of them.

whirlpool

Zillah wrote: »

You started your last thread a week ago. Just join a gym and stop talking about it already.

There are lots of ways to get fit. Procrastinating online isn't one of them.

The last thread I posted here was indeed a week ago. That is correct. Were you going somewhere with that?

Just join a gym? No. Thanks though.

Stop talking about it already? Eh, no. Why would I stop talking about it?

Were you implying that I'm procrastinating? How could you possibly know that? Especially since I'm not.

Not that it's any of your business but if it makes you feel a bit better, I have started. And I won't stop being curious about other people's processes and I won't stop asking about them either.

colman1212

whirlpool wrote: »

How did you make yourself lean and muscly?

Did you use a personal trainer?

Did you follow a workout program you found online / in a magazine / in a book and just trust it?

Did you just go to the gym and blindly work out?

Did you just buy weights and start working out at home?

Did you follow a program at all and if so, where did you get it from?

And so on and so forth.....

A long journey of trial and error where you never stop learning.
Most important things in my view are:

1) Use correct form and don't worry about how much weight is on the bar
2) Nutrition and nutrient timing - most of the your daily carbs before & after training. Fats are good - coconut oil, avocado etc. Ditch gluten.
3) Use a tried and trusted program until you know what you are doing, starting strength, 5/3/1, WSFSB, GVT, stronglifts
4) Focus on the muscle you are trying to work and try to create that mind muscle connection, don't just bang out exercises for the sake of it.
5) Know when to take a rest day and dont just keep ploughing on.
6) Superset everything!

Dermighty

Ditch gluten...don't ditch gluten....seems to be a hung jury on this one as far as ive seen.

Hanley

I spent 5 years thinking about nothing other than being strong. Then I spent a few more years improving food quality while working on things I ignored during tgat period. Like good quality.

colman1212

Dermighty wrote: »

Ditch gluten...don't ditch gluten....seems to be a hung jury on this one as far as ive seen.

Yeah I think tits probably different for everyone. I know I feel a hell of a lot better when I don't have gluten in my diet. And I find it a lot easier to stay lean. Energy levels are up, wake up feeling much better in the mornings.

At the same time I know lads who can stay shredded with gluten in their diet and it doesn't give them that sleepy bloated horrible feeling I get from it. I would recommend people do a few weeks off gluten and just see how they feel.

Doug Cartel

I don't know about the muscly side of things, but I'm pretty damn lean and I eat a lot of cake. Don't put too much value in personal anecdotes, what works for one person might not work so well for you.

ScissorPaperRock

colman1212 wrote: »

Ditch gluten.

This is something I'm thinking about. Did you ditch gluten entirely? Or just cut down?

Nervous Wreck

I hired Hanley to tell me what to do and then I did it.

Doug Cartel

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I don't know about the muscly side of things, but I'm pretty damn lean and I eat a lot of cake. Don't put too much value in personal anecdotes, what works for one person might not work so well for you.

So you're saying eat more cake.
Om nom nom!

Zillah

whirlpool wrote: »

The last thread I posted here was indeed a week ago. That is correct. Were you going somewhere with that?

Just join a gym? No. Thanks though.

Stop talking about it already? Eh, no. Why would I stop talking about it?

Were you implying that I'm procrastinating? How could you possibly know that? Especially since I'm not.

Not that it's any of your business but if it makes you feel a bit better, I have started. And I won't stop being curious about other people's processes and I won't stop asking about them either.

I didn't mean to sound snarky - you yourself said you were the kind of obsess over details. Any work out is better than no work out, even if you might not be doing it perfectly. For what it is worth, here's my thoughts:

Lean: This is about body-fat percentage, which is 100% a question of how many calories you eat versus how many you burn. You burn calories just by being alive, and burn more when you exercise. Heavier people need more calories to stay at that weight, visa versa for lighter people. If you are not as lean as you would like then you need to eat the amount of calories that a person of the weight you want would eat, and eat that amount for the rest of your life. I've always been lean due a decent diet and tons of cycling. Lots of veg. Like, 50% of every meal lots.

Trainer: Nope. Had a friend take ten minutes to show me the basics around the gym floor, and from there worked it out myself.

Program: I've never followed a particular program. I look up tons of info and tutorials online for different exercises (like, I might say, I need something better to work out my chest - and I would look up different exercises that would suit me and try them out). I just listen to my body and pick and choose what to work on each time I go. I started using the machines and very few free weights, and then started using more free weights. These days I barely every use the machines. I am always learning new things and adding exercises to my routine. I always keep a sly eye on what the people around me are doing, too, and sometimes I think "What an idiot, that's a waste of time!" and others I think "That looks like a really good exercises for my back...I'm going to do that from now on".

You can just go to the gym without working out blindly. There's a tons of resources online for you to plan what you're going to do. I would usually have back+chest day, shoulders+biceps day, legs days, etc. But it gets mixed up depending on how I feel about what needs to be done. Abs are fairly easily done at home.

Dermighty wrote: »

Ditch gluten...don't ditch gluten....seems to be a hung jury on this one as far as ive seen.

There is no reason whatsoever to ditch gluten unless you're actually allergic. I think most people feel better after ditching gluten because that means ditching bread. Getting rid of bread means getting rid of a large amount of quickly digesting carbs, usually eaten at night, which is a horrible idea. There's nothing wrong with gluten itself, and the people claiming there is are usually also advocating homepathy, vaccines scares etc. It's not based on science.

Hanley

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I hired Hanley to tell me what to do and then I did it.

That second bit is the one most people struggle with.

the groutch

Zillah wrote: »

Lean: This is about body-fat percentage, which is 100% a question of how many calories you eat versus how many you burn.

Really?
So I can eat 1500 calories worth of chocolate every day and reduce my body-fat percentage?

Frank Bullitt

Started threads on boards...

Robson Lobson

Zillah wrote: »

I didn't mean to sound snarky - you yourself said you were the kind of obsess over details. Any work out is better than no work out, even if you might not be doing it perfectly. For what it is worth, here's my thoughts:

Lean: This is about body-fat percentage, which is 100% a question of how many calories you eat versus how many you burn. You burn calories just by being alive, and burn more when you exercise. Heavier people need more calories to stay at that weight, visa versa for lighter people. If you are not as lean as you would like then you need to eat the amount of calories that a person of the weight you want would eat, and eat that amount for the rest of your life. I've always been lean due a decent diet and tons of cycling. Lots of veg. Like, 50% of every meal lots.

Trainer: Nope. Had a friend take ten minutes to show me the basics around the gym floor, and from there worked it out myself.

Program: I've never followed a particular program. I look up tons of info and tutorials online for different exercises (like, I might say, I need something better to work out my chest - and I would look up different exercises that would suit me and try them out). I just listen to my body and pick and choose what to work on each time I go. I started using the machines and very few free weights, and then started using more free weights. These days I barely every use the machines. I am always learning new things and adding exercises to my routine. I always keep a sly eye on what the people around me are doing, too, and sometimes I think "What an idiot, that's a waste of time!" and others I think "That looks like a really good exercises for my back...I'm going to do that from now on".

You can just go to the gym without working out blindly. There's a tons of resources online for you to plan what you're going to do. I would usually have back+chest day, shoulders+biceps day, legs days, etc. But it gets mixed up depending on how I feel about what needs to be done. Abs are fairly easily done at home.



There is no reason whatsoever to ditch gluten unless you're actually allergic. I think most people feel better after ditching gluten because that means ditching bread. Getting rid of bread means getting rid of a large amount of quickly digesting carbs, usually eaten at night, which is a horrible idea. There's nothing wrong with gluten itself, and the people claiming there is are usually also advocating homepathy, vaccines scares etc. It's not based on science.

The evidence shows that just about everyone is better off not consuming gluten. There is strong evidence which shows it causes autoimmune diseases as well as many other negative effects.

papu

the groutch wrote: »

Really?
So I can eat 1500 calories worth of chocolate every day and reduce my body-fat percentage?

Sure , but you'll also reduce muscle mass and probably develop diabetes , have awful skin , scurvy etc etc..

Doug Cartel

Robson Lobson wrote: »

The evidence shows that just about everyone is better off not consuming gluten.

I would be surprised by this.

conzy

Not that I'm there yet but Step 1 is consistency

Eating right every day, training 4 days a week every week. This way the long term average is practically perfect and occasional off days are irrelevant

Step 2 is wanting it more than anything. its the only way you'll stick to step 1

Zillah

the groutch wrote: »

Really?
So I can eat 1500 calories worth of chocolate every day and reduce my body-fat percentage?

If your calorie needs are 1501 or more, then yes, it would be physically impossible for you to not lose weight. As said, you'd be incredibly unhealthy in other ways. (Obviously you need to keep your protein high to maintain muscle)

Zillah

Robson Lobson wrote: »

The evidence shows that just about everyone is better off not consuming gluten. There is strong evidence which shows it causes autoimmune diseases as well as many other negative effects.

There isn't strong evidence. There are a few, unsubstantiated ideas. That's about it. That's why the medical community is not recommending that we avoid gluten, in the way that it would recommend we not consume, say, asbestos, mercury or cyanide - which all actually have evidence showing that they are bad for you.

Robson Lobson

Zillah wrote: »

There isn't strong evidence. There are a few, unsubstantiated ideas. That's about it. That's why the medical community is not recommending that we avoid gluten, in the way that it would recommend we not consume, say, asbestos, mercury or cyanide - which all actually have evidence showing that they are bad for you.

There is, I'll find it tomorrow. But for now I'll leave you with Chris Kesser.
http://chriskresser.com/9-steps-to-perfect-health-1-dont-eat-toxinsb

top madra

Dermighty wrote: »

Ditch gluten...don't ditch gluten....seems to be a hung jury on this one as far as ive seen.

No need to ditch gluten unless you have Celiac Disease or are Gluten sensitive.

the groutch wrote: »

Really?
So I can eat 1500 calories worth of chocolate every day and reduce my body-fat percentage?

Derp, think before you post.

Robson Lobson wrote: »

The evidence shows that just about everyone is better off not consuming gluten. There is strong evidence which shows it causes autoimmune diseases as well as many other negative effects.

Please post this evidence.

Because in fact, most of the gluten free products are actually higher in sugar and fat than there gluten counterparts.

Gluten free is a fad..........Unless you have Celiac disease etc.

cc87

Robson Lobson wrote: »

The evidence shows that just about everyone is better off not consuming gluten. There is strong evidence which shows it causes autoimmune diseases as well as many other negative effects.

If by evidence you mean anecdotal, then yes you are right. If however you mean research published in respectable journals then you are wrong.
There is no evidence that healthy people without any intolerances etc. would be better off without gluten in their diet. It might exacerbate pre-existing conditions but not create new ones.

colman1212

top madra wrote: »

Because in fact, most of the gluten free products are actually higher in sugar and fat than there gluten counterparts.

Gluten free is a fad..........Unless you have Celiac disease etc.

No body is talking about eating all that gluten free rubbish you see in the health section in supermarkets.
I was talking about eating whole unprocessed foods.
I have no problem with people saying that they don't like gluten free but saying its a fad is a bit ridiculous. I don't have a clue about what studies etc are out there about it, but I really do think that most people who try it for a decent amount of time will agree they feel much better on it, and they're body composition will improve.

Of the people who think its ridiculous/a fad etc, I'd be interested to see how many have tried it for a decent period of time.
I also would think if you randomly picked 10 gluten free eaters and 10 gluten eaters from a gym, who would be in better shape?

....Jesus, have I turned into one of these people who ramble on about paleo....:eek:

papu

colman1212 wrote: »

No body is talking about eating all that gluten free rubbish you see in the health section in supermarkets.
I was talking about eating whole unprocessed foods.
I have no problem with people saying that they don't like gluten free but saying its a fad is a bit ridiculous. I don't have a clue about what studies etc are out there about it, but I really do think that most people who try it for a decent amount of time will agree they feel much better on it, and they're body composition will improve.

Of the people who think its ridiculous/a fad etc, I'd be interested to see how many have tried it for a decent period of time.
I also would think if you randomly picked 10 gluten free eaters and 10 gluten eaters from a gym, who would be in better shape?

....Jesus, have I turned into one of these people who ramble on about paleo....:eek:

That's so vague though , and with no scientific studies to give any kind of timeframe or solid results you must see how people are apprehensive of the ah sure look go off gluten and you'll probably most likely maybe improve body composition.

Stench Blossoms

papu wrote: »

That's so vague though , and with no scientific studies to give any kind of timeframe or solid results you must see how people are apprehensive of the ah sure look go off gluten and you'll probably most likely maybe improve body composition.

Have you tried it?

papu

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Have you tried it?

I don't go out of my way to avoid it but there wouldn't be allot of it in my normal diet.

Hanley

It's a no Brainer for me. No "clinical" symptoms, but having some gluten every now and then really ****s with me. I doubt I have it 1x/week at this stage

It's not exactly hard to avoid anyway, so why risk it.

Blacktie.

Never paid any attention to the whole gluten thing. Just took a look at a list of foods that contain gluten and I eat very very little of it. That's just from trying to eat healthy and not actively avoiding gluten at all.

Doug Cartel

Gluten *is* pretty hard to avoid though, and I'd say most of the non celiacs on "gluten free" diets are actually still eating gluten - they just don't realise it.

the groutch

top madra wrote: »

Derp, think before you post.

my comment was being sarcastic, don't think anyone detected that.
was commenting on Zillah suggesting that if you operate a calorie deficit you will automatically reduce your body fat percentage, which just isn't true.

papu

the groutch wrote: »

my comment was being sarcastic, don't think anyone detected that.
was commenting on Zillah suggesting that if you operate a calorie deficit you will automatically reduce your body fat percentage, which just isn't true.

Please show how you plan to violate the laws of thermodynamics, or cite something that backs up your argument.

Robson Lobson

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/guide/health-guide-wheat-and-gluten-research

Blacktie.

the groutch wrote: »

my comment was being sarcastic, don't think anyone detected that.
was commenting on Zillah suggesting that if you operate a calorie deficit you will automatically reduce your body fat percentage, which just isn't true.

Yes it is. Humans are not magical creatures.

An energy deficit doesn't mean the number you get from some formula. It's eating less than you actually use. Explain to me how this wouldn't result in weight loss?

Mellor

the groutch wrote: »

my comment was being sarcastic, don't think anyone detected that.
was commenting on Zillah suggesting that if you operate a calorie deficit you will automatically reduce your body fat percentage, which just isn't true.

Its complete true. A deficit creates weight/fat loss. It's that simple.

You'd starving all the time and lacking a bunch of nutrients, and health wouldn't be great. But bf% would drop if you stuck to it.
However, I doubt anyone could stick for long enough outside if a clinical situation.

Clearlier

Mellor wrote: »

Its complete true. A deficit creates weight/fat loss. It's that simple.

You'd starving all the time and lacking a bunch of nutrients, and health wouldn't be great. But bf% would drop if you stuck to it.
However, I doubt anyone could stick for long enough outside if a clinical situation.

Leaving aside the whole argument about how the body deals with different types of calories couldn't you lose muscle mass and add fat mass while reducing overall mass? Not saying it's likely but we're talking about extreme diets.

Stench Blossoms

Why has the discussion gone this way? Wasn't the OP asking how individuals got lean?

I got lean-ish by watching my food intake and lifting.

Edit: Oh and by listening to Hanley. Sometimes.

Hanley

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Why has the discussion gone this way? Wasn't the OP asking how individuals got lean?

I got lean-ish by watching my food intake and lifting.

Internet.

heroics

I would not consider my self particularly lean but I am not looking to get much leaner either. I did not hire a PT. I researched programs online and through rugby/Gaa clubs that I was a member of. I use the Rugby club gym.

I think I noticed the biggest change when I started training consistently and set realistic goals for myself, I would be a goal motivated kind of person and will always try to hit the goal. These need to be achievable and not impossible. I generally set a goal for every 6 weeks.

The second part and probably more important would be to watch your diet. I probably eat terribly compared to a lot of the people on this forum but I found simple things like cutting out fizzy drinks and always having water with me at work made a difference.

I don't follow any diets like gluten free etc ( I love bread too much). Just eat a small bit of everything and if I want a burger king/eddies etc every so often I will.

Mellor

Clearlier wrote: »

Leaving aside the whole argument about how the body deals with different types of calories couldn't you lose muscle mass and add fat mass while reducing overall mass? Not saying it's likely but we're talking about extreme diets.

Wouldn't happen*, you'd lose sone muscle mass with the fat alright but adding fat happens on a surplus. By storing fat on a deficit, your body is making the deficit bigger, making it harder to meet its energy needs. Just isn't going to do something inefficient like that.


*excluding ridiculous cases like a huge bodybuilder with v.low bf% who hasn't got fat to lose.

Caliden

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Why has the discussion gone this way? Wasn't the OP asking how individuals got lean?

I got lean-ish by watching my food intake and lifting.

Edit: Oh and by listening to Hanley. Sometimes.

Well the OP has posted twice (the second reply was just a rebuttal to someone asking why they're posting so many threads on the same subject) and hasn't contributed since.

top madra

colman1212 wrote: »

No body is talking about eating all that gluten free rubbish you see in the health section in supermarkets.
I was talking about eating whole unprocessed foods.
I have no problem with people saying that they don't like gluten free but saying its a fad is a bit ridiculous. I don't have a clue about what studies etc are out there about it, but I really do think that most people who try it for a decent amount of time will agree they feel much better on it, and they're body composition will improve.

Of the people who think its ridiculous/a fad etc, I'd be interested to see how many have tried it for a decent period of time.
I also would think if you randomly picked 10 gluten free eaters and 10 gluten eaters from a gym, who would be in better shape?

....Jesus, have I turned into one of these people who ramble on about paleo....:eek:

So you don't eat any gluten products and you don't replace them with their counterparts?

Fairplay if you do and you're happy doing it, but it's complete bull-chit unless you want to do it or you NEED to..

As for picking people out of the gym, that's again almost laughable as most of the (guys anyhow) people that look in the best shape are also the unhealthiest.

If you can show me one study where it's been proven it's better off for you, I'll quietly say no more.

Edit......Interesting little read here (not scientific ) but interesting nonetheless, from a Celiac sufferer.

http://jezebel.com/5991724/will-everyone-please-eat-gluten--please-because-you-are-literally-killing-me-kind-of

Hanley wrote: »

It's a no Brainer for me. No "clinical" symptoms, but having some gluten every now and then really ****s with me. I doubt I have it 1x/week at this stage

It's not exactly hard to avoid anyway, so why risk it.

Yup real easy, thats why most people with Celiac disease have to go to nutritionists to sort out a diet for them.

the groutch wrote: »

my comment was being sarcastic, don't think anyone detected that.
was commenting on Zillah suggesting that if you operate a calorie deficit you will automatically reduce your body fat percentage, which just isn't true.

Derp, rather than repeat my last post........

What the hell do you think happens if you operate at a calorie deficit?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

most people who want to lose weight have to go somewhere for help with diet too, it's only easy when you know how to do it.

top madra

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

most people who want to lose weight have to go somewhere for help with diet too, it's only easy when you know how to do it.

Most people who need to lose weight just need to eat less, they don't have to avoid certain foods for fear of getting sick.

Most 'normal' people on gluten free diets aren't ever going to get sick from it and most are probably eating gluten without realising it.

jane82

I was always stick thin. I tried years of lifting with little food. Stayed stick thin with biggish arms.
One day I started running loads and eating loads. Got very fit and very fat.
Gave it up again and with a back injury went down to superstick thin and feeble.
After surgery began eating loads of mostly good stuff. Got bigger but with a small belly.
Began cycling and home convict style stuff and eating nearly perfect. Belly near gone in a few weeks.
Never been in better shape all round and Im in my 30s now and still growing muscle.

Zillah

colman1212 wrote: »

I don't have a clue about what studies etc

The sooner people like you learn that nothing should follow a sentence like this the better off the world will be.

jane82

Lads you need to read up what caeliac is. Its a problem that blocks up your stomach walls and stops you digesting any food once gluten hits it.
If you were allergic to gluten youd be very sick and weak all the time.
When people go on the gluten free fad diet they cut out bread and alot of processed foods thats why they feel better, not because their stomach walls are now open to digesting food again.

Alf Veedersane

jane82 wrote: »

Lads you need to read up what caeliac is. Its a problem that blocks up your stomach walls and stops you digesting any food once gluten hits it.
If you were allergic to gluten youd be very sick and weak all the time.
When people go on the gluten free fad diet they cut out bread and alot of processed foods thats why they feel better, not because their stomach walls are now open to digesting food again.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that people should give up gluten because they're probably a closet coeliac.

jane82

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't think anyone is suggesting that people should give up gluten because they're probably a closet coeliac.

But they are claiming gluten is the badguy.
If you are caeliac it is. Carbs that usually come with gluten are the bad guy.
Its as rediculous as people going on a peanut free diet because some people get peanut allergies.

Theresalwaysone

Im as lean as I've ever been and I've gotten here the same way as others.

Train well consistently.
Eat well consistently.
Be determined.

I also notice some serious swings in 'leanness' on a daily/weekly basis depending on a shed load of things. Carbs, Sleep, Training, food types etc.

I'm trying to get a littler leaner but cutting calories and training consistenly is a constant battle for me. The energy dropoff, the strength dropoff, the propensity to get injured a lot easier, the elongated need for recovery time is all a major inconvenience.