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How did *you* get lean and muscly?

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Its not the gluten its cutting the carbs and eating clean that does it for them. Sausages have gluten in them. If you have gluten free butter and somebody in the house uses it to butter their bread and scrapes the fork your butter now has gluten in it.
    If trainers put a client on a real gluten free diet chances are they wont be back the next week or are spoofing.
    Chances are they will eat gluten free bread and sausages and not make any gains even though they are eating horrible tasting food.
    Id be reccomending less carbs to make them feel better not depriving themselves of nearly all foods.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    jane82 wrote: »
    If trainers put a client on a real gluten free diet chances are they wont be back the next week or are spoofing.

    You should put that in a PM to Transform.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    jane82 wrote: »
    Its not the gluten its cutting the carbs and eating clean that does it for them. Sausages have gluten in them. If you have gluten free butter and somebody in the house uses it to butter their bread and scrapes the fork your butter now has gluten in it.
    If trainers put a client on a real gluten free diet chances are they wont be back the next week or are spoofing.
    Chances are they will eat gluten free bread and sausages and not make any gains even though they are eating horrible tasting food.
    Id be reccomending less carbs to make them feel better not depriving themselves of nearly all foods.

    Are you going to address any of the points I brought up?

    Gluten is easy to avoid if you WANT to.
    Have a separate butter container for yourself.

    I lived with a Coeliac in college - it's easy to manage at home, can be a disaster eating out.

    As for a trainer putting a client on a gluten free diet, the main issue here for me is if the trainer also gives a plan, a shopping list, a whole food approach,

    One of the reasons gluten does have an affect on people is that they are eating it from highly processes forms.
    The less processed a food is, the better the body deals with it (in general).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    I didnt see any of your posts. But yes the key is highly processed. Not the gluten though the food that comes with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    my comment was being sarcastic, don't think anyone detected that.
    was commenting on Zillah suggesting that if you operate a calorie deficit you will automatically reduce your body fat percentage, which just isn't true.

    If you need 2000 calories per day to maintain your weight, and you only eat 1500 calories per day, you will either lose weight or magically conjure 500 calories from thin air. If you think you won't lose weight then where exactly do you think your body is getting those 500 calories?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭Transform


    jane82 wrote: »
    Its not the gluten its cutting the carbs and eating clean that does it for them. Sausages have gluten in them. If you have gluten free butter and somebody in the house uses it to butter their bread and scrapes the fork your butter now has gluten in it.
    If trainers put a client on a real gluten free diet chances are they wont be back the next week or are spoofing.
    Chances are they will eat gluten free bread and sausages and not make any gains even though they are eating horrible tasting food.
    Id be reccomending less carbs to make them feel better not depriving themselves of nearly all foods.
    Great so break down a day that has "less" carbs in it for everyone here.

    Finding it difficult to understand your point so that should help


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,981 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Zillah wrote: »
    If you need 2000 calories per day to maintain your weight, and you only eat 1500 calories per day, you will either lose weight or magically conjure 500 calories from thin air. If you think you won't lose weight then where exactly do you think your body is getting those 500 calories?

    You could lose lean muscle as well as fat while still losing weight.

    Losing weight if often times too vague, people want to lose fat but maintain a good physique which is different to just 'losing weight'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭Transform


    Oh and this also
    mfuPyEjel0

    Overall in reference to the original question -

    1. Do ducking something, get off your red rum and move

    2. Great you're moving now let's sort out your mobility

    3. If you can't do basics like a few push ups (chest to floor), a chin up, squat and deadlift your own body weight then you are going to keep looking for answers with your nutrition when the real answer is your too damn weak.

    4. Nutrition - start with this simple question - where do I need to make changes with my nutrition today? I.e. Most people can't and won't do the basics and don't need a trainer or boards.ie to point them in the right direction - like stop eating crap daily, eating ready made processed meals and then drinking like mad eejits at the weekend or drinking 500cals in junk fluids daily e.g. Soft drinks, lattes etc

    Only work on the gluten and carb intake when you sort the above out.

    When that's done start fine tuning with the aid of a trainer or an online calorie tracker.

    5. Sleep more, do metcons and for the love of god go chat to people face to face and understand the importance of social interaction to overall health. Spending too much time online will turn you into a dick.

    Edit - not sure if that pic is showing but it's basically a meme I did about being gluten free and still not loosing weight, here's why


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Caliden wrote: »
    You could lose lean muscle as well as fat while still losing weight.

    Losing weight if often times too vague, people want to lose fat but maintain a good physique which is different to just 'losing weight'

    I know. I am not advocating eating nothing but chocolate, that would be idiotic. If you want to lose fat while keep all of your muscle you need to consume a small calorie deficit and keep a high protein diet. That doesn't change the fact that you would lose fat eating 1500 calories of chocolate per day and nothing else.

    Not that I didn't say all of this before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭colman1212


    Zillah wrote: »
    The sooner people like you learn that nothing should follow a sentence like this the better off the world will be.

    Sounds like somebody has been eating too much gluten.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,566 ✭✭✭GrumPy


    conzy wrote: »
    Not that I'm there yet but Step 1 is consistency

    Eating right every day, training 4 days a week every week. This way the long term average is practically perfect and occasional off days are irrelevant

    Step 2 is wanting it more than anything. its the only way you'll stick to step 1

    What about eating wrong most days, and binge drinking every night for a week, up a mountain?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    colman1212 wrote: »
    Sounds like somebody has been eating too much gluten.

    I'm not just trading barbs, there is a point. Many people think individual cases are relevant compared to what studies show. Throughout the sad history of quack medicine it is apparent that an individual is easily confused, lied to or guilty of wishful thinking and confirmation bias. It is why people think homeopathy works, it is why people think reiki exists, it's why people have been buying snake oil and similar crap for centuries.

    The only way to be sure something actually works is to do a proper, controlled, objective study and see what the results are. That proves it or disproves it. It doesn't matter is one guy says "It worked for me!", because we have no way of knowing if for every guy saying that there are a hundred more for whom it did not work. That's called an anecdote and it has to be disregarded because it doesn't mean anything - we have to look at the bigger picture.

    So when someone announces that they have no idea if their opinion is supported by studies, they should stop right there, and go and check if the studies support their opinion, and if it doesn't, they should change their opinion. To announce that you have no idea what the studies say, and then go on to give people advice and make claims about how something works...it's just ridiculous.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Zillah wrote: »
    I'm not just trading barbs, there is a point. Many people think individual cases are relevant compared to what studies show. Throughout the sad history of quack medicine it is apparent that an individual is easily confused, lied to or guilty of wishful thinking and confirmation bias. It is why people think homeopathy works, it is why people think reiki exists, it's why people have been buying snake oil and similar crap for centuries.

    The only way to be sure something actually works is to do a proper, controlled, objective study and see what the results are. That proves it or disproves it. It doesn't matter is one guy says "It worked for me!", because we have no way of knowing if for every guy saying that there are a hundred more for whom it did not work. That's called an anecdote and it has to be disregarded because it doesn't mean anything - we have to look at the bigger picture.

    So when someone announces that they have no idea if their opinion is supported by studies, they should stop right there, and go and check if the studies support their opinion, and if it doesn't, they should change their opinion. To announce that you have no idea what the studies say, and then go on to give people advice and make claims about how something works...it's just ridiculous.

    Know what's ridiculous? Taking controlled scientific studies and assuming they hold true when put into the larger population who are subjected to forces outside of a tightly controlled study. Like a social life. And beer. And pizza. And pasta.

    Sure, control perfectly for calories and macro breakdown, and the carb source doesn't matter.

    But in the real world - when you eat poor quality carbs, adhering to "perfect control" is nigh on impossible.

    So yah... studies are great. And they form a basis. But when you start working with actual people, rather than spreadsheets and theories, things change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭Transform


    Hanley wrote: »
    Know what's ridiculous? Taking controlled scientific studies and assuming they hold true when put into the larger population who are subjected to forces outside of a tightly controlled study. Like a social life. And beer. And pizza. And pasta.

    Sure, control perfectly for calories and macro breakdown, and the carb source doesn't matter.

    But in the real world - when you eat poor quality carbs, adhering to "perfect control" is nigh on impossible.

    So yah... studies are great. And they form a basis. But when you start working with actual people, rather than spreadsheets and theories, things change.
    this x 1000

    while others be waiting for studies i be out there with my hands on experience.

    We get paid for getting results so we would be crazy to wait for a study to prove what we see working on a daily basis.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Hanley wrote: »
    Know what's ridiculous? Taking controlled scientific studies and assuming they hold true when put into the larger population who are subjected to forces outside of a tightly controlled study. Like a social life. And beer. And pizza. And pasta.

    Sure, control perfectly for calories and macro breakdown, and the carb source doesn't matter.

    But in the real world - when you eat poor quality carbs, adhering to "perfect control" is nigh on impossible.

    So yah... studies are great. And they form a basis. But when you start working with actual people, rather than spreadsheets and theories, things change.

    But isn't that kind of his point? That it's not necessarily the gluten that brings on the good results but more the fact that if you reduce/eliminate gluten from your diet you're knocking off a lot of crappy foods with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭top madra


    Hanley wrote: »
    Know what's ridiculous? Taking controlled scientific studies and assuming they hold true when put into the larger population who are subjected to forces outside of a tightly controlled study. Like a social life. And beer. And pizza. And pasta.

    Sure, control perfectly for calories and macro breakdown, and the carb source doesn't matter.

    But in the real world - when you eat poor quality carbs, adhering to "perfect control" is nigh on impossible.

    So yah... studies are great. And they form a basis. But when you start working with actual people, rather than spreadsheets and theories, things change.

    I don't understand this....

    Wouldn't it be harder to get a average joe to stick to a gluten free diet rather than just a normal clean diet?

    Whereas earlier you said it was pretty simple to do (sorry if I'm reading it wrong)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    top madra wrote: »
    I don't understand this....

    Wouldn't it be harder to get a average joe to stick to a gluten free diet rather than just a normal clean diet?

    Whereas earlier you said it was pretty simple to do (sorry if I'm reading it wrong)

    Depends what you class as a normal clean diet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Hanley wrote: »
    Know what's ridiculous? Taking controlled scientific studies and assuming they hold true when put into the larger population who are subjected to forces outside of a tightly controlled study. Like a social life. And beer. And pizza. And pasta.

    Sure, control perfectly for calories and macro breakdown, and the carb source doesn't matter.

    But in the real world - when you eat poor quality carbs, adhering to "perfect control" is nigh on impossible.

    So yah... studies are great. And they form a basis. But when you start working with actual people, rather than spreadsheets and theories, things change.

    I have no idea how this is supposed to be a response to what I said. I'm talking about gluten. What are you talking about?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭papu


    Hanley wrote: »
    Know what's ridiculous? Taking controlled scientific studies and assuming they hold true when put into the larger population who are subjected to forces outside of a tightly controlled study. Like a social life. And beer. And pizza. And pasta.

    Sure, control perfectly for calories and macro breakdown, and the carb source doesn't matter.

    But in the real world - when you eat poor quality carbs, adhering to "perfect control" is nigh on impossible.

    So yah... studies are great. And they form a basis. But when you start working with actual people, rather than spreadsheets and theories, things change.

    I just don't understand. Maths is physics , physics is chemistry , chemistry is biology and people seem all to quick to dismiss the scientific method for biology.

    Why do you think we are so far behind in our knowledge and understanding of biological systems?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭top madra


    Depends what you class as a normal clean diet.

    What I class as clean makes no difference whatsoever to this thread!

    But anyhow, I'm a calories in calories out kinda guy, I said 'clean' because people are so anal on this forum and they usually over complicate the simple things.

    Anything actual constructive to add?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    top madra wrote: »
    What I class as clean makes no difference whatsoever to this thread!

    But anyhow, I'm a calories in calories out kinda guy, I said 'clean' because people are so anal on this forum and they usually over complicate the simple things.

    Anything actual constructive to add?

    You're the one who brought it up. Overly defensive much?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    top madra wrote: »
    What I class as clean makes no difference whatsoever to this thread!

    But anyhow, I'm a calories in calories out kinda guy, I said 'clean' because people are so anal on this forum and they usually over complicate the simple things.

    Anything actual constructive to add?

    Woah! Who pissed in your cornflakes?

    A 'clean' diet to most is one that has little or no processed foods and if you've little or no processed foods what else don't you have? That's right, gluten!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Woah! Who pissed in your cornflakes?

    No one.

    Maybe he just found out they're not gluten-free.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Woah! Who pissed in your cornflakes?

    A 'clean' diet to most is one that has little or no processed foods and if you've little or no processed foods what else don't you have? That's right, gluten!
    Yes but its the processed foods that are bad not gluten. There is gluten in some healthy foods too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    jane82 wrote: »
    Yes but its the processed foods that are bad not gluten. There is gluten in some healthy foods too.

    Give me a food that's not processed that has gluten in it?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    Give me a food that's not processed that has gluten in it?

    Oats are nearly always contaminated with gluten in processing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,802 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    jane82 wrote: »
    Oats are nearly always contaminated with gluten in processing.


    'Nearly always' is a stretch.

    There's the possibility.

    But I think SB was referring to food that actually cpntains gluten rather than food that may or may not be contaminated with it, depending on where it was processed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,390 ✭✭✭Stench Blossoms


    But I think SB was referring to food that actually cpntains gluten rather than food that may or may not be contaminated with it, depending on where it was processed.

    Yes i'm looking for food that contains gluten (That's healthy as Jane has said) that has not been processed.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭jane82


    But thats the thing. People are blaming the gluten. Its correlation not causeation. When you are cealiac you know when you ate gluten by accident.
    Gluten-free foods will still make people that dont eat gluten for sport feel as bloated as if they ate gluten free food.
    Its as simple as not eating crap.


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