Racism in ireland

FTA69

Czarcasm wrote: »

I agree FTA that context is everything, otherwise I'd be left with an awful conundrum when I hear black people refer to each other as n*ggers, homosexual people referring to each other as queers, and women who tell me to call them a slut, bitch, whore, etc.

This sounds a far more fun discussion to be honest.

As for your assertion that there isn't a long history of discrimination against blonde haired people, we'd be here all day if we were to start reeling off blonde jokes which denigrate blonde haired women as being of lesser intelligence. Is that ideology based on sexism, or disablism?

That's based on sexism more than anything. Which is also a problem in society.

The prisons are overcrowded enough as it is without an Asian man (a detail the OP conveniently omitted!) being thrown in prison with murderers and rapists for calling someone a big black monkey.

I agree. I don't think people should be imprisoned for a one-off offense like that, but he should certainly be challenged on it and the significance of racial abuse shouldn't be nullified by equating it with calling someone a b*lox.

crockholm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Again, you completely ignore the historical context and wider implications of an insult such as "big black monkey". It's a little more racially charged and insiduous than "big white elephant"...

Where would you stand on the term "Irish monkey" ? Is it at the same level of offensiveness as Calling someone a black monkey?


Im not suggesting this to lessen the insensitivity of Calling a black guy a monkey- it's just that the whole thing is a clusterfvck,and if we were to find out by law what is accecptable to call someone,then look forward to solicitors/barristers making a living entirely off the semantics of race.

FTA69

crockholm wrote: »

Where would you stand on the term "Irish monkey" ? Is it at the same level of offensiveness as Calling someone a black monkey?


Im not suggesting this to lessen the insensitivity of Calling a black guy a monkey- it's just that the whole thing is a clusterfvck,and if we were to find out by law what is accecptable to call someone,then look forward to solicitors/barristers making a living entirely off the semantics of race.

Anti-Irish racism also exists, and there is a rump of people in Britain who engage in this superior, sneering attitude to the Irish and aren't shy in expressing it. It isn't that much of a clusterf*ck to be honest, it's quite simple. If you use someone's race or ethnicity as the basis to abuse them then that constitutes racist abuse. End of story really.

Czarcasm

KTRIC wrote: »

What if some Brit called you a ginger haired Paddy ? Would you be ok with that ??

I wouldn't take them seriously, if that's what you mean? I've been called more names and insulted more times than I'd care to remember (there are a couple of stand out comedy ones though like the random drunk girl that called me a chink bastard because I wouldn't let her sleep on my floor, or the customer who called me a knob jockey because he didn't have a backup of his data and just assumed I would), but the thing is, I'm only one person, and if I were to report every incident of abuse to the Gardaí, not only would I be taking up all their time, but I'd get nothing done myself! Now imagine if every person who is abused or feels they were abused, makes a report to Gardaí and expects them to investigate every incident...

Completely unrealistic, unjustifiable, financially and logistically unworkable.

crockholm

FTA69 wrote: »

Anti-Irish racism also exists, and there is a rump of people in Britain who engage in this superior, sneering attitude to the Irish and aren't shy in expressing it. It isn't that much of a clusterf*ck to be honest, it's quite simple. If you use someone's race or ethnicity as the basis to abuse them then that constitutes racist abuse. End of story really.

And I've experienced a good shot of it myself,sometimes by people I knew well.Perhaps it was one of those freudian slips or whatever,but sometimes people blurt out things nonsensically and I don't feel that they should Always be hauled over the coals for doing so.

It is dissappointing to hear,but a Quick look through a newspaper confirms that worse stuff happens.

Please don't see this as an apology for bigotry

FTA69

crockholm wrote: »

And I've experienced a good shot of it myself,sometimes by people I knew well.Perhaps it was one of those freudian slips or whatever,but sometimes people blurt out things nonsensically and I don't feel that they should Always be hauled over the coals for doing so.

It is dissappointing to hear,but a Quick look through a newspaper confirms that worse stuff happens.

Please don't see this as an apology for bigotry

Listen, I'm not saying every time I had to listen to some p*ss head call me an Irish c*nt on a door or over a bar that I burst into tears and rang the cops. Similarly I had a guy in my community centre say something about gays and I didn't jump down his throat; I did have a chat with him about it in a friendly manner though. I'm not saying that every example of ignorance is also one of seething, vicious racism.

Czarcasm

FTA69 wrote: »

This sounds a far more fun discussion to be honest.

Yeah but there you go like, you're not getting your tits in a twist about it because you understand the context, but you wouldn't need me to tell you there are some people who WOULD take fierce offence to it on behalf of others, that will say "I don't care about the context, it's verbal abuse and disrespectful, etc, etc", because they lack perspective, and how seriously should they then be taken?

That's based on sexism more than anything. Which is also a problem in society.

There's the thing, some people would perceive it as sexist, some would perceive it as disablist (an insult based on a person's intellectual disability). There are any number of ways a comment can be perceived as discriminatory.

I agree. I don't think people should be imprisoned for a one-off offense like that, but he should certainly be challenged on it and the significance of racial abuse shouldn't be nullified by equating it with calling someone a b*lox.

Well we're somewhere there or thereabouts on the same page at least, whereas the OP would want criminal charges brought against someone for a one off incident such as the example given in the OP, where the OP took offence on behalf of someone else.

The OP didn't ask the person were they offended by the insults, and didn't consider the fact that the security person involved was actually able to handle the situation. The OP could've actually made the situation worse because now the security staff has a duty to protect him, as well as eject the taxi driver from the premises.

When you start categorising abuse in terms of the motivation behind the abuse, rather than the level of the abuse, that's when you end up in a situation where people start arguing about which motivation is more abhorrent, be it racism, homophobia, xenophobia, disablism, sexism, etc. They're all as bad as each other in reality, because you're looking to enforce labels on a people rather than teach them to consider the credibility of the source of the insult.

FTA69

Czarcasm wrote: »

Yeah but there you go like, you're not getting your tits in a twist about it because you understand the context, but you wouldn't need me to tell you there are some people who WOULD take fierce offence to it on behalf of others, that will say "I don't care about the context, it's verbal abuse and disrespectful, etc, etc", because they lack perspective, and how seriously should they then be taken?

Well they'd be wrong because they'd be comparing consensual sex-talk (lucky f*cker) with abusing a random stranger in Burger King. Apples and bowling balls.

The OP didn't ask the person were they offended by the insults

I think we can safely say that most blacks would be offended by people calling them monkeys.

Czarcasm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Again, you completely ignore the historical context and wider implications of an insult such as "big black monkey". It's a little more racially charged and insiduous than "big white elephant"...

Of course I ignore the historical context of an insult, as do most people. Only people who have been educated and furnished with the historical context will understand the historical context and pay any heed to it. If I were to call a young black male today "Kunta Kinte", they wouldn't be aware of the historical context, so the term is meaningless to them. I know it's an insult, you know it's an insult, but to them I might as well have called them Martin Luther King or Othello.

A black man calling a white girl a big white elephant is a fairly obvious insult, even though the mix of idioms themselves have history in another context which mean something totally different.

Czarcasm

FTA69 wrote: »

Well they'd be wrong because they'd be comparing consensual sex-talk (lucky f*cker) with abusing a random stranger in Burger King. Apples and bowling balls.

That's my point - context determined by perspective, and that's why I'm saying that people should be encouraged to consider the source of the perceived insult before they reach for their pitchforks and bandy about terms like racist, homophobe, etc. They can't tell the difference between a lazy insult, and genuinely held racist or homophobic beliefs, and the more they cry racism, homophobia, etc, the more people are going to view them like the little boy who cried wolf.

I think we can safely say that most blacks would be offended by people calling them monkeys.

I think anyone regardless of their colour of their skin, calling them a monkey would raise an eyebrow, unless they were aware already that the motivation behind the insult wasn't intentionally malicious. Calling a fat girl a hippo will usually have the same effect.

Too Tough To Die

Czarcasm wrote: »

Of course I ignore the historical context of an insult, as do most people. Only people who have been educated and furnished with the historical context will understand the historical context and pay any heed to it. If I were to call a young black male today "Kunta Kinte", they wouldn't be aware of the historical context, so the term is meaningless to them. I know it's an insult, you know it's an insult, but to them I might as well have called them Martin Luther King or Othello.

A black man calling a white girl a big white elephant is a fairly obvious insult, even though the mix of idioms themselves have history in another context which mean something totally different.

Most people ignore the historical context of an insult? Only where the historical context is missing, or unknown.

What's your opinion on holocaust deniers? No different than your mate denying the bird you pulled last week was a 10/10 stunner?

Czarcasm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Most people ignore the historical context of an insult? Only where the historical context is missing, or unknown.

Really? I would say that the insult means more to the person who is aware of the historical context of an insult than it means to the person who has no idea what the insult means. That's why you have some people who consider it a badge of honour almost to be called a n*gger or a queer. I had a black friend once who constantly used greet me with "s'up mah nigga?". He was as Irish born and bred as I am, and yet he chose to adopt MTV style ebonic language because he figured that's the way he should talk as a black man, disregard the fact of course that he'd never been any more than five miles from his five bedroom family home in an affluent estate. Obviously I dropped him like a hot potato because I couldn't be constantly listening to that shìte. I think any reasonable person would've done the same.

What's your opinion on holocaust deniers? No different than your mate denying the bird you pulled last week was a 10/10 stunner?

Well I'll tolerate more bullshìt talk than most people I know, depending on the mood you catch me in, so sometimes I'll entertain a holocaust denier (or historical revisionist), if I feel they may come up with an interesting and compelling argument for their perspective, but I'd view with a healthy degree of cynicism a Jewish person's claims that 40 million Jews were sent to their deaths in gas chambers but they have no historical evidence to back up their spurious claims. So in that respect they'd be no different to the person that spends all evening pulling their wire and has never so much as had a sniff of a vagina, trying to give me their perspective on my taste in women.

SaveOurLyric

I used to be really really racist. But then I saw on an ad that FIFA is against racism and that I should say no to racism. So I quit.
Think about, FIFA stands for everything that is pure and good, and just wants the nations of the world to play.
So if they say its wrong then you should trust them and ditch your racism. I think its really good of them to pay for ads to point this out to people who wouldn't otherwise know its a bad thing.

candy-gal1

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I used to be really really racist. But then I saw on an ad that FIFA is against racism and that I should say no to racism. So I quit.
Think about, FIFA stands for everything that is pure and good, and just wants the nations of the world to play.
So if they say its wrong then you should trust them and ditch your racism. I think its really good of them to pay for ads to point this out to people who wouldn't otherwise know its a bad thing.

Not sure whether sarcasm, and if it is not sure if its for or against, maybe Im just slow tonight :rolleyes:

--LOS--

Not sure if sarcastic or drunk or 12 years old. Not sure if quit FIFA or racism

Supergurrier

I got called a ginger bollox once.

Didn't ring the cops mind just insulted yer mans ma and he ran off crying.

Just realised his ma might be black or jewish.

Am I going to jail ?

BogMonkey

Come now, theres no racism in Ireland. Thats just what these black bastards want us to think so they can be justified to complain. Only joking. I hate racists and I don't doubt theres some of them here. It can't be that common though can it. I don't even know any racists personally. Besides some gob****es from council areas but I think thats xenophobia not racism. I'm a xenophobe myself (and proud of it), I don't trust a single one of these ****in, foreign ****s, not a single one. I nearly hate them as much as I hate people from Cork, the smelly watsit eating bastards. If you're not from Dublin, you can f*** fight off, you're not welcome here. Ya dirty, godless, good for nothing foreigners. I think its time we ship yuz all pack to Egypt, ya godless, pyramid building gypsy bastards. I'm guessing its obvious enough that was a joke. Your typical xenophobe actually thinks like that. Xenophones, you can only admire them.

Superguirrer: ginger is a hair colour, not a race. Ya soulless ginger bastard, would you not go back down the hell where you belong? Only joking, I'm not a mindless fool that discriminates people for nothing.

Mark Tapley

I love it when someone resurrects a thread to spout some old shíte.

DeadHand

BogMonkey wrote: »

Come now, theres no racism in Ireland. Thats just what these black bastards want us to think so they can be justified to complain. Only joking. I hate racists and I don't doubt theres some of them here. It can't be that common though can it. I don't even know any racists personally. Besides some gob****es from council areas but I think thats xenophobia not racism. I'm a xenophobe myself (and proud of it), I don't trust a single one of these ****in, foreign ****s, not a single one. I nearly hate them as much as I hate people from Cork, the smelly watsit eating bastards. If you're not from Dublin, you can f*** fight off, you're not welcome here. Ya dirty, godless, good for nothing foreigners. I think its time we ship yuz all pack to Egypt, ya godless, pyramid building gypsy bastards. I'm guessing its obvious enough that was a joke. Your typical xenophobe actually thinks like that. Xenophones, you can only admire them.

Superguirrer: ginger is a hair colour, not a race. Ya soulless ginger bastard, would you not go back down the hell where you belong? Only joking, I'm not a mindless fool that discriminates people for nothing.

This is the least funny thing I've ever read on AH.

ANXIOUS

Mad just happened to see this. So a few months on the taxi driver is now my normal taxi driver and I tell every person I meet about the other taxi firm. My compliant to regulator hasnt been finalized.

BogMonkey

DeadHand wrote: »

This is the least funny thing I've ever read on AH.

I found it moderately funny. It was meant to have a voice to go with it, probably doesn't come across right reading it. Was it a bit offensive or something? If so, I apologise. At the same time I think people should stop being so easily offended. Its a vulnerability. I'm an anti racist. Black, white, Chinese, at the end of the day we all ****e brown and thats all that matters. Then again some members of the royal family have porphyria which causes them to ****e purple. They're the ones we should be discriminating against. Think they're better than the rest of us because their ****e isn't brown. I think this song sums it all up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMh9hPGNGKE
That cheesy new age saying "we're all one", I saw it for myself. It was on my way back from a salvia trip, I had been stuck in the 2nd dimension for what seemed like weeks, I unravelled the mechanism by which I had myself stuck. All the pain associated with the illusion of separation returned the second my brain shut out the memory of what I'd discovered and I realised then that the pain was my everyday state, I think everyone has it they just have nothing to compare it to. The idea of racism seems so silly when you've seen that. Is it not obvious though, all are is consciousness inside a body and consciousness has no race, nationality, religion or any other silly concepts people use to justify their xenophobia.

kupus

id stay away from nuclear warheads if i was you.

RonanP77

There's only one thing I don't get here, why would someone not like bacon?

BogMonkey

RonanP77 wrote: »

There's only one thing I don't get here, why would someone not like bacon?

A traumatic event has caused an association between bacon and pain in the victims subconscious. My guess is someone nailed a rasher to his knee. Thats the only probable scenario I can come up with.