Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

Conas

Where's the leader of OUR nation Enda Kenny in all of this? According to the Irish Independent, he's hanging out with the developers, and bankers. This country is finished as far as I'm concerned. How in the world is Shatter aloud to stay in such an important position, after this horrendous mess. For a man who was lucky to snatch the fifth seat in Dublin-South in 2007, and 2011, I think the people there must be quiet embarrassed with his performance. I was always led to believe as a young fella, that all the posh, big shots in Ireland lived in Dublin South. Well they don't have a much intelligence in political terms as far as I'm concerned. They'll have to wait until the next election in 2016 to do something about it. We have a non-existent Taoiseach sadly. I'd rather be run by Vladimir Putin, the Russians, than by Kenny, Fine Gael, and the EU/ECB.

take everything

I've already started to not care much anymore about the latest circus to hit the headlines (given the government's dismissal of the barrage of scandal over the past couple of years) but if Shatter doesn't go after found to be breaking the law, i really think we are living in a Banana Republic.
Unbelievably he was quoted in a news article today pointing out the inappropriateness of leaking such information about him, with no hint of irony.
It's infuriating Yes Minister stuff.

Muahahaha

Yeah the whole episode shows me nothing has changed in this country. We still settle for mediocrity. It seems unfathomable that a serving Minister for Justice could remain in office after being found guilty of breaking the law. Not so in Ireland where our politicians are above the law. It's pure banana republic stuff, international investors must be looking on watching this corruption and just thinking to themselves that nothing has changed in Ireland from the 1980s, 90s and Celtic Tiger. if you invest there someone will be trying to dip money out of your pocket, stay well away.

Sierra Oscar

RTÉ News - Alan Shatter broke data protection law by revealing information about Mick Wallace

The Data Protection Commissioner has found that Minister for Justice Alan Shatter broke the law by disclosing personal information about Independent TD Mick Wallace.

So now we have a Minister for Justice who is breaking the law himself to undermine political opponents. Despite this FG & Labour still have confidence in Shatter?

Taoiseach and Tánaiste have confidence in Shatter despite Data Commissioner finding

_Kaiser_

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

RTÉ News - Alan Shatter broke data protection law by revealing information about Mick Wallace



So now we have a Minister for Justice who is breaking the law himself to undermine political opponents. Despite this FG & Labour still have confidence in Shatter?

Taoiseach and Tánaiste have confidence in Shatter despite Data Commissioner finding

I'm thinking of trademarking this:

FG and LAB .. managing to be WORSE than FF every day!

Here's an interesting quote someone over on The Journal dug up - another link here:


Alan Shatter in 2010 -

“What Minister O’Dea admitted yesterday is that he willingly and publicly discussed, for his own electoral gain, confidential information furnished to him by a member of An Garda Síochána. Such conduct is entirely unacceptable by any minister in any Government. Such conduct by a Minister for Defence, part of whose constitutional duty is to secure the security of the State, renders the Minster unfit for Cabinet office.

“No member of the gardaí, nor any member of the Defence Forces, can now in any way be assured that confidential information furnished to this minister will not be misused and be made public. The Minister s position is no longer defensible, and it is a sad reflection on the judgment of both the Taoiseach and the Green members of Government, that he remains in Cabinet”


Not only should Shatter go (and in fact have gone long ago), but Kenny himself should go as well - as leader of the party and government he bears ultimate responsibility. But then Kenny is weak and nothing more than a cardboard cutout for his European/FG "betters" so no surprises that he's still backing Shatter - though as the quote above shows, one is as bad as the other!

IMO, anyone who thinks we have a credible government/democracy at this stage must be either living under a rock or in some way connected to it.

Sand

Shatter has got to go at this point if he broke the law.

If Kenny is stupid or stubborn enough to back him even despite that, he could get away with it in the short term if Labour don't make a point of it (and they have no real interest in going anywhere near the electorate any time soon) but FG will continue to decline and then take a hammering in the next GE.

I'm sure some will tell themselves that FG will be punished for taking the hard decisions though.

Banjo String

Surely Enda will push him now, with a little help from Eamon.

Y'know. Seeing as both have been in the news this week informing SF that No one is above the law, political figure or not. This was in relation to Adams arrest. (and him subsequently released without charge btw)

aloyisious

RTE show's "trousers-down" evidence during TV news broadcast... http://indo.ie/wxUIr..... LOL

Slick50

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The Minister s position is no longer defensible, and it is a sad reflection on the judgment of both the Taoiseach and the Green members of Government, that he remains in Cabinet”

I don't see this bothering Kenny or Shatter. FG have a history of doubled standards and hypocrisy. Or just changing their mind. Although, Labour seem to be panicking, they might try to put some pressure on Kenny.

renegademaster

Conas wrote: »

Where's the leader of OUR nation Enda Kenny in all of this? According to the Irish Independent, he's hanging out with the developers, and bankers. This country is finished as far as I'm concerned. How in the world is Shatter aloud to stay in such an important position, after this horrendous mess. For a man who was lucky to snatch the fifth seat in Dublin-South in 2007, and 2011, I think the people there must be quiet embarrassed with his performance. I was always led to believe as a young fella, that all the posh, big shots in Ireland lived in Dublin South. Well they don't have a much intelligence in political terms as far as I'm concerned. They'll have to wait until the next election in 2016 to do something about it. We have a non-existent Taoiseach sadly. I'd rather be run by Vladimir Putin, the Russians, than by Kenny, Fine Gael, and the EU/ECB.

take everything wrote: »

I've already started to not care much anymore about the latest circus to hit the headlines (given the government's dismissal of the barrage of scandal over the past couple of years) but if Shatter doesn't go after found to be breaking the law, i really think we are living in a Banana Republic.
Unbelievably he was quoted in a news article today pointing out the inappropriateness of leaking such information about him, with no hint of irony.
It's infuriating Yes Minister stuff.

Sand wrote: »

Shatter has got to go at this point if he broke the law.

If Kenny is stupid or stubborn enough to back him even despite that, he could get away with it in the short term if Labour don't make a point of it (and they have no real interest in going anywhere near the electorate any time soon) but FG will continue to decline and then take a hammering in the next GE.

I'm sure some will tell themselves that FG will be punished for taking the hard decisions though.

Banjo String wrote: »

Surely Enda will push him now, with a little help from Eamon.

Y'know. Seeing as both have been in the news this week informing SF that No one is above the law, political figure or not. This was in relation to Adams arrest. (and him subsequently released without charge btw)

sweet fa is going to happen if the people do nothing and if all we're willing ot do is go hard ont hem in the elections and fall back asleep again until april 2016 what do you all think is going to happen until then?

bajer101

The end is very near now for Shatter. Word on the street is that the review into the GSOC bugging affair by former High Court Judge John Cooke will be his Waterloo. In a way, I think that this will be appropriate. Revealing confidential information about Wallace, while illegal, is perhaps understandable and forgivable on a human level. But the way he behaved about the GSOC affair is completely unforgivable. He tried to undermine an independent State body and probably roped the leader of our country into doing the same. Personally, I hope that the GSOC affair is the one that he gets sacked over, as it is the most serious of all his fúck ups.

If he, or Kenny had any sense, he would bail now. Losing a MoJ over trying to hang Wallace would be a lot easier to gloss over than trying to defend him over purposely misleading the Dail and The Taoiseach - that's tantamount to treason. He seems to be relying an awful lot on semantics and legalese, but the Dail isn't a court and the public aren't a sworn jury. This is about to turn on him viciously.

rodento

bajer101 wrote: »

Revealing confidential information about Wallace, while illegal, is perhaps understandable and forgivable on a human level.

You have to ask yourself, why did he release the information about Wallace.

Was it in the public's interest as Shatter suggests, or was it released to undermine Wallace and the garda whistleblowers.

For that shatter has to go

Banjo String

In less than a week later, after telling Gerry Adams that he was not above the law, Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore have said the following ref to Shatter.

Although senior Labour sources said that the ruling was “embarrassing” for Mr Shatter, the spokeswoman for Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore made it clear last night that the Minister retains his confidence.

Similarly, Mr Kenny’s spokesman said “the answer is yes” when asked whether the Minister retains the Taoiseach’s confidence. The spokesman declined to comment further as the matter may be subject to further legal proceedings.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/kenny-and-gilmore-rally-behind-shatter-after-data-finding-1.1785910

They will be severely punished on the doorsteps.

Going Forward

And now at this stage, and all that's happened, when Callinan whispered into Shatters ear about Wallace, did he not say

"Keep that to yourself Alan,

It would get us both into awful trouble if you were to do something so stupid as to repeat it on live TV....... "

Hootanany

Punish them in the locals & european elections they will get the message then.

_Kaiser_

Hootanany wrote: »

Punish them in the locals & european elections they will get the message then.

The sad thing is they probably won't. Unless Labour kick up a fuss they'll see out their term in government and then the senior crop will ride off into the sunset (or Europe) with their fully-funded pensions that you and I will pay for - just as their predecessors did! Of course the crazy thing there is that some of THOSE are actually standing for election again as a result of FG/LAB's antics and have a real chance of being reelected - look at the Hanafin situation.

Kenny and co are showing why FG have never served 2 consectutive terms in office though. The big question is where does an electorate who is finally waking up to the futility/stupidity of flipping between FF and FG REALISTICALLY go next?

Hootanany

I know I will get Lambasted for this Give the Shinners a go see what they can do?

_Kaiser_

Hootanany wrote: »

I know I will get Lambasted for this Give the Shinners a go see what they can do?

Well I can't see how they can do much worse - particularly as they're unlikely to form a majority government and so any of their "wilder" ideas are likely to be tempered in a coalition.

The default of excuse of their bloody history wears thin when you remember that none of the other mainstream parties have a spotless past either - and if the people in the North can move on then isn't it time the rest of us did too?

I personally have no loyalty to any party but I agree that a genuinely alternative option is long overdue in this country.

nice_guy80

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Well I can't see how they can do much worse - particularly as they're unlikely to form a majority government and so any of their "wilder" ideas are likely to be tempered in a coalition.

The default of excuse of their bloody history wears thin when you remember that none of the other mainstream parties have a spotless past either - and if the people in the North can move on then isn't it time the rest of us did too?

I personally have no loyalty to any party but I agree that a genuinely alternative option is long overdue in this country.

Exactly.

I mean, its is well known that TDs of Cumann na nGaedheal brought guns with them to the first sitting of the Dáil after the civil war.

brooke 2

rodento wrote: »

You have to ask yourself, why did he release the information about Wallace.

Was it in the public's interest as Shatter suggests, or was it released to undermine Wallace and the garda whistleblowers.

For that shatter has to go

What is really disturbing about this whole affair is how something so seemingly inconsequential could have made its way to the ears of the Commissioner and via him to the MoJ.

Zubeneschamali

brooke 2 wrote: »

What is really disturbing about this whole affair is how something so seemingly inconsequential could have made its way to the ears of the Commissioner and via him to the MoJ.

I'd like to know whether this made it up the chain as a bit of gossip ("Did you hear about yourman Wallace?") or whether the current or a previous minister or Commissioner gave orders or made it policy that any dirt on sitting politicians was to be reported up the chain of command.

Given the info leaked about Shatter's breath test, Wallace's phone use, Ming's points, Claire Daly's breath test etc. it would seem that the guards have dirt on a lot of TDs...

What are they doing with the dirt they have on Enda, Gilmore etc?

brooke 2

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'd like to know whether this made it up the chain as a bit of gossip ("Did you hear about yourman Wallace?") or whether the current or a previous minister or Commissioner gave orders or made it policy that any dirt on sitting politicians was to be reported up the chain of command.

Given the info leaked about Shatter's breath test, Wallace's phone use, Ming's points, Claire Daly's breath test etc. it would seem that the guards have dirt on a lot of TDs...

What are they doing with the dirt they have on Enda, Gilmore etc?

Reminds me of a well known politician whose brother was involved in developing a golf course in the west of Ireland a few years ago. One of the farmers was proving very reluctant to sell his land to him. When the aforementioned politician arrived on the scene his
first question was 'Have we any dirt on this guy?' And he was not
even FF!!

I imagine certain people 'of interest' will have many of their actions
redflagged by the Gardai, as clearly happened in the Wallace incident.

_Kaiser_

It just gets better and better - you couldn't make this up:

“I think it’s a bit hard to stomach seeing Mick Wallace presenting himself as some sort of a victim,” Varadkar said today.

“He’s a deputy I like a lot on a personal level, but let’s not forget that he’s somebody who has broken the law himself and a much more serious law. He broke our tax laws.”

Varadkar said that Wallace should be “man enough now to accept the apology” from Shatter.

Seriously.. this is playground stuff! It's ok to break the law then if someone else did it first??

gizmo555

Varadkar is not stupid, so he knows perfectly well this goes way beyond a personal spat between Shatter and Wallace.

What he and all the other government TDs, Fine Gael & Labour, are saying is that it's not a resigning matter for a serving Minister for Justice to abuse confidential Garda information for his own personal political ends. That's some precedent to be setting.

If he and the Gardaí are prepared to to this to a TD, what wouldn't they do to us ordinary citizens? Leo's right - it's not as serious as Wallace's tax dodging - it's much more serious.

_Kaiser_

gizmo555 wrote: »

If he and the Gardaí are prepared to to this to a TD, what wouldn't they do to us ordinary citizens? Leo's right - it's not as serious as Wallace's tax dodging - it's much more serious.

Completely agree - though it's interesting (but not surprising!) to see where this government's priorities lie!

We've already seen what AGS will do to their own (the Whistleblowers) and the current government have shown with Wallace and Daly that they're not averse to pulling strings/abusing authority for political gain.

What we have here is not only a very serious situation, it's potentially very dangerous.

(Side note: I see John Moran has unexpectedly resigned today, the day before he's to appear before the PAC - maybe tomorrow there'll be something else to take the heat off Shatter?)

cunnifferous

Shatter gone, just resigned

mikep

According to RTE.ie it is due to the findings of The Guerin report into the handling of allegations made by Sgt. Maurice McCabe.

aloyisious

So, the next questions are: 1.. Will he be sued by Mick or will they come to some agreement within the House? 2.. Will Enda split the jobs and appoint a separate Minister to Justice and Defence from the juniors, thus getting two new loyal friends? 3... Will the sterling work by Alan of grasping some thorny issues and making new laws be continued by his successor?

gizmo555

Gerry Adams just quoted as saying that no-one will take any personal pleasure at Shatter's resignation - speak for yourself Gerry!

Going Forward

The damage has already been done for Fine Gael.

He took far too long to resign (or be pushed.)