Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

sopretty

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The point of the phrase "a few bad apples" is that just a few bad apples in a barrel is enough to ruin the whole thing.

That has been my point all along.

brooke 2

Have just been reading back on the Joanne Hayes case which occurred thirty years ago. Was not aware that Gerry O'Carroll was the detective in charge of the case. What
puzzles me is why he is consistently rolled out in the media over the years to comment
on various crimes which have been committed. Did he not have any questions to answer about the way the Hayes case was conducted??

Shady Tady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The point of the phrase "a few bad apples" is that just a few bad apples in a barrel is enough to ruin the whole thing.

There's the brush out again. If a family member is a bad apple does that mean all the family are bad apples?

Zubeneschamali

Shady Tady wrote: »

There's the brush out again. If a family member is a bad apple does that mean all the family are bad apples?

Yes! Try it: take a bowl of good apples. Put a rotten apple on top. Check what happens next day.

Every apple that touches the bad apple goes bad. Soon the whole bowl is rotten. You can't come next week and weed out the bad apples - the whole bowl is now bad.

So someone who says "the family are ok, it's just one or two bad apples" is contradicting themselves.

Shady Tady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes! Try it: take a bowl of good apples. Put a rotten apple on top. Check what happens next day.

Every apple that touches the bad apple goes bad. Soon the whole bowl is rotten. You can't come next week and weed out the bad apples - the whole bowl is now bad.

So someone who says "the family are ok, it's just one or two bad apples" is contradicting themselves.

Apples and people are the same thing so, does that mean that man kind is fcuked now that the garda whistleblowers have pointed out there's a few bad apples who happen to be humans as well?

sopretty

Shady Tady wrote: »

Apples and people are the same thing so, does that mean that man kind is fcuked now that the garda whistleblowers have pointed out there's a few bad apples who happen to be humans as well?

I think you're more of a melon than an apple.

Zubeneschamali

Shady Tady wrote: »

Apples and people are the same thing so, does that mean that man kind is fcuked now that the garda whistleblowers have pointed out there's a few bad apples who happen to be humans as well?

I am not commenting on the Gardaí or whistleblowers: I am commenting on the meaning of "a few bad apples". If you mean "a few isolated corrupt guards" then don't say "bad apples" as it means the whole lot are bad.

JRant

Shady Tady wrote: »

All gardai immediately become corrupt when they join, great arguement, talk about kicking a group of people when they are down and painting with a large brush. How can you possibly speak for 13,000 gardai. No workplace is perfect especially when it's undermined by political infulence. Many gardai choose to try and change it from within and by highlighting issues through the GRA. Maybe if people had listened to them down through the years they might have heard a lot of what is complained about now. But keep painting everyone with the same brush its easy and sure will solve the real problem!

Over 200 senior Gardai involved in the squashing of 10's of thousands of fixed chargered penalties and you still claim it was an isolated pocket within AGS.

AGS will continue to be painted with wide brush strokes until such a time as they are properly monitored and held accountable for their actions.

tayto lover

Bad apples. Is the Moore Street thread?

JRant

tayto lover wrote: »

Bad apples. Is the Moore Street thread?

Penny apples??

Phoebas

No point in throwing the baby out with the bad apples.

rodento

Is the Hawkes report on the Wallace issue out this week????

aloyisious

What is it with humans and apples? The apple of his/her father's eye. Even the bible say's badness start with a bite of an apple.

tayto lover

Its a Banana Republic ... eh Apple Republic.

Going Forward

Shady Tady wrote: »

I agree they reflect Irish society, they were recruited from the public and so would a new force

The number who have been shown to be completely unsuitable, based purely on criminal convictions against them, not to mention the anecdotal stories which are legion, show that the selection process is at best, flawed.

Many were recruited who were clearly not of the correct material for the job. We must ask why that is, there's never any shortage of candidates, yet many complete oddballs end up in uniform.

A 'new' force may attract a different sort of individual, with some maturity, and a sense of the responsibility which comes with the position, and some morals wouldn't go astray either.

JRant

Going Forward wrote: »

The number who have been shown to be completely unsuitable, based purely on criminal convictions against them, not to mention the anecdotal stories which are legion, show that the selection process is at best, flawed.

Many were recruited who were clearly not of the correct material for the job. We must ask why that is, there's never any shortage of candidates, yet many complete oddballs end up in uniform.

A 'new' force may attract a different sort of individual, with some maturity, and a sense of the responsibility which comes with the position, and some morals wouldn't go astray either.

Well the selection process is completely flawed. Look at how many of the new recruits about to come into the force are sons, daughters, nieces, nephews etc. nepotism is rife in AGS.

mickdw

When is report due on gsoc?
A bit of free speech when that is published should put some pressure back on shatter.

Shady Tady

JRant wrote: »

Well the selection process is completely flawed. Look at how many of the new recruits about to come into the force are sons, daughters, nieces, nephews etc. nepotism is rife in AGS.

Guess who didn't manage to get in?

raymon

Shady Tady wrote: »

Guess who didn't manage to get in?

I give up..... who?

mikep

Yet again this thread goes a bit wobbly...anyhow...will the "no show" by Shatter at the conferences add pressure to get him out of office?? While some here have suggested that Enda won't budge on Shatter...I'm still not so sure about the lack of pressure in the background to move him...could the labour party push for Howlin, as he is currently in a "reform" ministry?? Personally I'm hoping that Shatter won't continue where he is post reshuffle..

Zubeneschamali

mikep wrote: »

will the "no show" by Shatter at the conferences add pressure to get him out of office??

No. The tradition of Ministers wasting their time going to conferences and taking wild abuse is a stupid one.

Shady Tady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No. The tradition of Ministers wasting their time going to conferences and taking wild abuse is a stupid one.

He simply wasn't allowed to go, he can't be trusted to be let out in public by enda or the cabinet. The writing is on the wall!

aloyisious

Shady Tady wrote: »

He simply wasn't allowed to go, he can't be trusted to be let out in public by enda or the cabinet. The writing is on the wall!

OMG, you don't mean he has more than one set of minders??? :eek:

Muahahaha

mickdw wrote: »

When is report due on gsoc?
A bit of free speech when that is published should put some pressure back on shatter.

I dunno but I doubt it will be out in the 6-8 weeks they initially said. The Examiner carried a story today outlining how the GSOC investigation hasn't asked Mary Lynch for her input (May Lynch was the taxi driver violently assaulted by a man who Gardai released on bail who then went on to abduct a child and murder Sylvia Roche Kelly in Limerick). If this is true it is astounding that the investigation has not interviewed her. The Examiner headline is calling the investigation a whitewash and it has hardly even begun.

Shady Tady

aloyisious wrote: »

OMG, you don't mean he has more than one set of minders??? :eek:

When the states paying you can even bring them to Mexico!

raymon

Dont you think the Gardai should get their house in order instead if poncing around at these conferences. Who cares about whether the minister goes or not or if he gets fruit thrown at him .

The gardai need to get their heads out of their holes and try to figure out how to stop corruption in the force.

Muahahaha

Wasn't there a story going around about how Shatter wouldn't allow the Gardai tasked to protect his house use of his toilet ? I'd say he would be getting a frosty reception if he showed up at any of the Garda conferences in light of the controversy surrounding Callinans departure

Shady Tady

raymon wrote: »

Dont you think the Gardai should get their house in order instead if poncing around at these conferences. Who cares about whether the minister goes or not or if he gets fruit thrown at him .

The gardai need to get their heads out of their holes and try to figure out how to stop corruption in the force.

Nice language, you're a credit to your parents!

raymon

Shady Tady wrote: »

Nice language, you're a credit to your parents!

Apart from the "heads in the holes" and the "poncing about "comments do you agree that the corruption needs to be tackled.?

Were you in the force yourself?

If so what is your opinion.

JRant

Shady Tady wrote: »

Guess who didn't manage to get in?

I haven't a hope of getting into AGS. I use words such as bicycle instead of 'push vehicle' and car instead of 'motor vehicle'. I also don't use the word 'duly' in every sentence so there's no way they'd let me in.