VW E-Golf launched

paulclan

So the hare sits indeed !
Some gullible Irish motorists might be the real testers, rather than being treated as adults by the manufacturers!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well no offence but I didn't discuss range because it's not known yet how much it will effect the Golf, and it's been discussed to death on Leaf threads before. no point discussing leaf range in a Golf thread ?

Just because the Leaf may get as low as 60 miles in the worst of Irish weather is no reflection on whether the Golf will.

Same with battery longevity, just because one ev battery may last 150,000 to 70% capacity doesn't mean all ev's will.

And heat in an Irish climate is a non issue regarding ev battery longevity.

_Kaiser_

As always with these threads, the supposed savings quoted forget one thing...

If electric cars actually ever do take off in real numbers, do ye really think the "cheap electricity" will last in the face of diminishing tax returns? I'll even give you precedent - what happened when everyone went out and bought low-emission/cheap tax diesels after 2008?

Then there's the point that urban environments, which should be the perfect place for these things, are inhabited by many apartment dwellers. I somehow have a problem imagining charge points at every parking space, or extension leads hanging everywhere. Same problem in the office.

The ICE is certainly on the way out but electric is not the long term solution and certainly not in Ireland where we have such a dispersed population and poor transport options anyway.

Henry Ford III

Electric cars will be about as useful as a chocolate tea pot, until such time as their achilles heel - range - is sorted.

When they'll do say 400 miles without a recharge they'll be worth considering.

Kaiser2000

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

As always with these threads, the supposed savings quoted forget one thing...

If electric cars actually ever do take off in real numbers, do ye really think the "cheap electricity" will last in the face of diminishing tax returns? I'll even give you precedent - what happened when everyone went out and bought low-emission/cheap tax diesels after 2008?

Then there's the point that urban environments, which should be the perfect place for these things, are inhabited by many apartment dwellers. I somehow have a problem imagining charge points at every parking space, or extension leads hanging everywhere. Same problem in the office.

The ICE is certainly on the way out but electric is not the long term solution and certainly not in Ireland where we have such a dispersed population and poor transport options anyway.

Nonsense, electricity prices are going up either way due to lack of proper competition and the regulator looking out for the electric companies and not consumers.

They can't raise electricity prices to the extent to match the lost revenue from petrol and diesel.

They can increase motor tax.

And there are property charges now and soon to be water chargers which will bring in a lot of revenue. So the need to screw the motorist is less.

I'm sure most apartment owners have not even looked into the possibility of charging so no one can actually say how difficult this is likely to be, perhaps anti EV management companies may block this.

As chargers become faster and ranges greater then it most likely won't be such an issue.

People should think of solutions not problems, you will always find problems.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Electric cars will be about as useful as a chocolate tea pot, until such time as their achilles heel - range - is sorted.

When they'll do say 400 miles without a recharge they'll be worth considering.

Yeah you've said this many times Henry. We get it, so don't buy one.

No Idea why you'd want to carry around a big heavy expensive battery in the first place.

If an EV could do 800 miles you'd say still not good enough, getting boring at this stage.

What's not good for you isn't necessarily bad for everyone else.

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

Nonsense, electricity prices are going up either way due to lack of proper competition and the regulator looking out for the electric companies and not consumers.

They can't raise electricity prices to the extent to match the lost revenue from petrol and diesel.

They can increase motor tax.

"They" can increase whatever they want as they have proven time and again. All they have to do is slap an added "carbon levy" on electricity, or some other inventive charge to compensate for the lost tax revenue OR they simply introduce an EV Tax band into the system.. job done!

And there are property charges now and soon to be water chargers which will bring in a lot of revenue. So the need to screw the motorist is less.

The idea that Irish government policy runs to the idea that if we all pay, everyone pays less is quaint - and no more true here than it is when used in the motor tax arguments.

All that happens in reality is everyone pays more!

I'm sure most apartment owners have not even looked into the possibility of charging so no one can actually say how difficult this is likely to be, perhaps anti EV management companies may block this.

Sooo.. increased management fees, higher rents then, or who's going to pay for this?

As chargers become faster and ranges greater then it most likely won't be such an issue.

People should think of solutions not problems, you will always find problems.

Look I get from all your posts on this issue that you believe that EV cars are the future and you think that anyone who disagrees is "anti-EV" but while there are no doubt some people here who fit that description your average Irish motorist doesn't care about a car or what it runs on as long as it's cheap to tax, fuel and run.

In the medium-long term EV's are none of these and thus completely unsuited to the Irish market IMO

Kaiser2000

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

"They" can increase whatever they want as they have proven time and again. All they have to do is slap an added "carbon levy" on electricity, or some other inventive charge to compensate for the lost tax revenue OR they simply introduce an EV Tax band into the system.. job done!

They can't do this, sorry. Not going to happen, Electricity increases are inevitable regardless. And as soon as people start buying them they will lamp on VRT so they won't have to increase electricity.

You're insane if you think they will increase electricity prices to the Equivalent of the losses in revenue in petrol or diesel.

Just imagine the costs to businesses and those those who don't have or will never own cars.

Imagine places that use huge amounts of electricity such as the ever increasing amount of Data Centres ? they would be gone in a shot. It would be economic suicide.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Sooo.. increased management fees, higher rents then, or who's going to pay for this?

First, There is a grant to install chargers which I'm sure applies to apartment owners, those renting, I'm not so sure.

But after the grant expires then everyone will have to pay for installation of chargers.

The cost's of course are offset by the much cheaper motoring costs.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Look I get from all your posts on this issue that you believe that EV cars are the future and you think that anyone who disagrees is "anti-EV" but while there are no doubt some people here who fit that description your average Irish motorist doesn't care about a car or what it runs on as long as it's cheap to tax, fuel and run.

No I have always said Electrics are not for everyone, and they have obstacles to over come but I admit that, It doesn't help though when people only think about the negatives and not about the positives or the solutions.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

In the medium-long term EV's are none of these and thus completely unsuited to the Irish market IMO

In the medium to long term electrics are suitable for the majority of Irish motors who drive 30 iles a day or less, I believe this is 70% form a recent survey. Granted going from Cork to Donegal is going to be a chore but I'm sure most 2 car families will not have a problem or getting a loan of an ice for the short to medium term.

Henry Ford III

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah you've said this many times Henry. We get it, so don't buy one.

No Idea why you'd want to carry around a big heavy expensive battery in the first place.

If an EV could do 800 miles you'd say still not good enough, getting boring at this stage.

What's not good for you isn't necessarily bad for everyone else.

Hold up now.

You keep starting threads on ev's and it's only fair comment to point out their game ruining shortcoming. I'd buy one if it had range and the price was reasonable btw.

The issue isn't battery size or weight it's technology. 400 miles real world range with reasonable size/weight and it's a runner.

Otherwise it's a glorified milkfloat. I think it's fair enough point that out.

Sitec

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Hold up now.

You keep starting threads on ev's and it's only fair comment to point out their game ruining shortcoming. I'd buy one if it had range and the price was reasonable btw.

The issue isn't battery size or weight it's technology. 400 miles real world range with reasonable size/weight and it's a runner.

Otherwise it's a glorified milkfloat. I think it's fair enough point that out.

Do you travel 643km's a day? The range of Ev's is more suited to the Irish market than most of Europe. A glorified milk-float I don't think so, I was exactly the same, doubted all Ev's as a gimmick.

Brought a Leaf for a spin and was generally surprised by the responsiveness and pick -up from any speed. I would love to own one, considering my daily commute is 75km point to point.

Henry Ford III

Sitec wrote: »

Do you travel 643km's a day? The range of Ev's is more suited to the Irish market than most of Europe. A glorified milk-float I don't think so, I was exactly the same, doubted all Ev's as a gimmick.

Brought a Leaf for a spin and was generally surprised by the responsiveness and pick -up from any speed. I would love to own one, considering my daily commute is 75km point to point.

Oh I know all about the instant pickup and appreciate the economy but if that comes at the cost of having to stop and recharge too frequently and for too long (and sky high prices) it makes ev's fatally flawed for too many.

I'm sure their time will come too, but the current 200 miles range (or less) means they just aren't at the races, yet.

LOL Henry, fair enough I don't deny you your opinion, just because you wouldn't buy one doesn't mean they are not suitable for the vast majority of people on this Island.

Oafley Jones

Deleted User wrote: »

And there are property charges now and soon to be water chargers which will bring in a lot of revenue. So the need to screw the motorist is less.

I've seen you come out with (what can only charitably considered) optimistic stuff on EVs before, but that takes the biscuit. Does that honestly sound like the thinking of any government. EV's will be just as expensive to run as ICE vehicles when they become the norm.

keithclancy

Sitec wrote: »

Do you travel 643km's a day? The range of Ev's is more suited to the Irish market than most of Europe. A glorified milk-float I don't think so, I was exactly the same, doubted all Ev's as a gimmick.

Brought a Leaf for a spin and was generally surprised by the responsiveness and pick -up from any speed. I would love to own one, considering my daily commute is 75km point to point.

Considering people are complaining about a 15 minute wait for a random drug test that might happen once every few years (on another thread) I think that highlights the problem of EVs

paulclan

keithclancy wrote: »

Considering people are complaining about a 15 minute wait for a random drug test that might happen once every few years (on another thread) I think that highlights the problem of EVs

This thread,if evisaged as promotional,appears to have failed in its objective?
If informational, it seems to inform in a flawed fashion,though the OP,s with the exception of one appear to see through the smokescreen!

I am well aware of the fact that I'm in the motors section of Boards.ie, I don't expect much else !

Anan1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Hold up now.

You keep starting threads on ev's and it's only fair comment to point out their game ruining shortcoming. I'd buy one if it had range and the price was reasonable btw.

The issue isn't battery size or weight it's technology. 400 miles real world range with reasonable size/weight and it's a runner.

Otherwise it's a glorified milkfloat. I think it's fair enough point that out.

Come on now - you may need 400 miles range, but many people do not. It's a game ruining shortcoming for you (and, incidentally, for me), not for everyone.

Zubeneschamali

Anan1 wrote: »

Come on now - you may need 400 miles range, but many people do not. It's a game ruining shortcoming for you (and, incidentally, for me), not for everyone.

But the Leaf is ridiculously cheap to run. Given how people doing low miles will buy an entirely unsuitable diesel just to save pennies on tax, where are the armies of people buying Leafs?

They've sold as near to none as makes no difference.

I think that even though many people don't really need 500 miles of range, they are used to the idea that that's what a real car has. So the Leaf doesn't count as a real car in their eyes.

I mean, what if Mini announced that their new model only has a 2 gallon tank? It saves weight, makes the car more economical, and most trips are less than 70 miles, so no biggie.

Eh, no. Nobody would buy one, just like the Leaf.

Nixer Jim

Slightly off topic but surely range extenders are the way to go. Electricity genertated onboard and used far more efficiently by driving an electric motor.

None of the range anxiety of plug in electric cars, still vastly more efficient than regular ICE cars (not to mention there's no need to expend so much energy and do so much environmental damage making all those batteries) and about the same cost to buy as the Golf, Opel Ampera for example.

It would seem that, with such an alternative available, buying a plug in electric car is more of a statement than actually any genuine advantage by powering a car from a plug, that same plug which is by and large powered by a highly polluting fossil fuel fired power station.

Anan1

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Slightly off topic but surely range extenders are the way to go. Electricity genertated onboard and used far more efficiently by driving an electric motor.

None of the range anxiety of plug in electric cars, still vastly more efficient than regular ICE cars (not to mention there's no need to expend so much energy and do so much environmental damage making all those batteries) and about the same cost to buy as the Golf, Opel Ampera for example.

It would seem that, with such an alternative available, buying a plug in electric car is more of a statement than actually any genuine advantage by powering a car from a plug, that same plug which is by and large powered by a highly polluting fossil fuel fired power station.

Generating electricity onboard is far less efficient than generating it in a power station. There's no getting away from the fact that ICE is an incredibly inefficient use of petrol.

Nixer Jim

Anan1 wrote: »

Generating electricity onboard is far less efficient than generating it in a power station. There's no getting away from the fact that ICE is an incredibly inefficient use of petrol.

If we continue to base efficiency simply on the amount of emmisons manufactured per km of journey we'll be going around in circles forever. I'm sure there's one or two giant holes in the ground in Africa and some very impoverished, infact almost slave like existences for human beings over there, all on the pursuit of "clean energy cars" It's flawed logic. It's gotta be the complete picture or we're wasting each others time, money and valuable resources.

Sitec

Nixer Jim wrote: »

If we continue to base efficiency simply on the amount of emmisons manufactured per km of journey we'll be going around in circles forever. I'm sure there's one or two giant holes in the ground in Africa and some very impoverished, infact almost slave like existences for human beings over there, all on the pursuit of "clean energy cars" It's flawed logic. It's gotta be the complete picture or we're wasting each others time, money and valuable resources.

?????

I genuinely don't understand that post. The Golf EV wasn't developed to help people in Africa?

Anan1

Nixer Jim wrote: »

If we continue to base efficiency simply on the amount of emmisons manufactured per km of journey we'll be going around in circles forever. I'm sure there's one or two giant holes in the ground in Africa and some very impoverished, infact almost slave like existences for human beings over there, all on the pursuit of "clean energy cars" It's flawed logic. It's gotta be the complete picture or we're wasting each others time, money and valuable resources.

What does this have to do with my post?

Nixer Jim

Sitec wrote: »

?????

I genuinely don't understand that post. The Golf EV wasn't developed to help people in Africa?

Oh man.

Anan1

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Oh man.

Oh man is right.

Sitec

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Oh man.

"Oh man" doesn't explain anything. What are you trying to say? We need to solve World economics and Famine before we sell an Electric Golf?

See ye're forgetting something and that's Petrol and Diesel cars are still affordable and most people have no interest in electrics they see no incentive to buy one because most people are able to afford petrol or diesel.

As most "normal" people I have this debate say to me that they would only consider an EV when petrol and diesel cars/fuel becomes unaffordable, range is a concern but not the greatest and they don't care what powers the car as long as it gets them from A to B.

While petrol and diesel is expensive, it's still affordable to most people who throw in 20-40 Euro's a week.

Even though the Leaf is far more superior to drive than the equivalent petrol or diesel most people don't care.

When I ask people what would get them to buy an electric car they say when they are forced to or normal cars become unaffordable.

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

See ye're forgetting something and that's Petrol and Diesel cars are still affordable and most people have no interest in electrics they see no incentive to buy one because most people are able to afford petrol or diesel.

As most "normal" people I have this debate say to me that they would only consider an EV when petrol and diesel cars/fuel becomes unaffordable, range is a concern but not the greatest and they don't care what powers the car as long as it gets them from A to B.

While petrol and diesel is expensive, it's still affordable to most people who throw in 20-40 Euro's a week.


Even though the Leaf is far more superior to drive than the equivalent petrol or diesel most people don't care.

When I ask people what would get them to buy an electric car they say when they are forced to or normal cars become unaffordable.

Id jump at an electric car if it was stylish, had performance similar to 200 bhp approx and had 200 mile range.

jca

Sitec wrote: »

The only thing that is a "farce" is the price of the E-Golf. 24% of electricity generated in December 2013 came from wind stations.

How much was generated by wind last June July and August during the heat wave?

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

Id jump at an electric car if it was stylish, had performance similar to 200 bhp approx and had 200 mile range.

A Tesla Model S you would like then ?

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A Tesla Model S you would like then ?

Yes but we can currently but a petrol car that does all that without selling the house