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VW E-Golf launched

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    #32
    wotswattage
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭wotswattage


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    But I'm not saving. For every new green energy incentive, my taxes are just going skyward to subsidize green energy. 28 cent alone has been dropped on to a liter of petrol/diesel since this government came to power. That's all in the name of green credentials. But it's nuts. It's just paying for unaffordable fuel somewhere else.

    As for the side step of the how electricity is generated, I find that ridiculous. That's central to the entire point. Green energy is only green when it's generated carbon free. Carbon free energy is currently unaffordable.

    The ICE car won't last forver but the electric alternative is not ready, not realworld useable and nowhere near as green as it's made out to be.

    When it's better it will naturally replace the inferior concept. For now it's nothing more than an agenda for a few and nod to Kyoto emission regs, otherwise known as vastly profitable for some key people worldwide, all at the ordinary tax payers expense yet again.

    Well it's central to your entire point. You brought up green energy.
    Not to my point which is based around A-B transport which costs less.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Most people who buy cars do not care about emissions or the environment, if they did they would not buy diesel cars, but they do for the cheap motor tax !

    Anyway this thread is about the E-golf not how electricity is generated or green tax so please back on topic.

    I'll say it again, anyone who doesn't like electrics, don't buy them, it's as simple as that.


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    #34
    Nixer Jim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Nixer Jim


    wotswattage wrote: »
    Well it's central to your entire point. You brought up green energy.
    Not to my point which is based around A-B transport which costs less.

    Do we produce electrify in Ireland that makes electric cars actually more ecological than ICE cars. By ecological I'm meen do they pollute more than their ICE car equivalents due to the power station emmisons?


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    #35
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    .

    When they can do 250 miles on a charge, be recharged in roughly the same time as
    It takes to fill a fuel tank and that fuel tank doesn't need replacing after 7-10 years, then they might be considered useful for the majority. Till then, utterly useless.

    At the moment EV's might not be feasible to your requirements and fair enough but don't write them off because of that. Obviously if you want to go to travel the length of the county there are better alternatives.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    Do we produce electrify in Ireland that makes electric cars actually more ecological than ICE cars. By ecological I'm meen do they pollute more than their ICE car equivalents due to the power station emmisons?

    Who cares Jim ? People who buy cars care about what they cost to run, environmental factors are out of most peoples hands.

    As more renewables come online they probably are far cleaner and besides, they are emission free in towns and cites.


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    #37
    Nixer Jim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Nixer Jim


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Most people who buy cars do not care about emissions or the environment, if they did they would not buy diesel cars, but they do for the cheap motor tax !

    Anyway this thread is about the E-golf not how electricity is generated or green tax so please back on topic.

    I'll say it again, anyone who doesn't like electrics, don't buy them, it's as simple as that.

    And I'll say it again, electric "Golfs" are a farce. If it's not about environmental matters then what's the point! There's no point driving an electric golf unless it improves useability, extends range or uses more viable fuel. Currently none of the above are the case.


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    And I'll say it again, electric "Golfs" are a farce. If it's not about environmental matters then what's the point! There's no point driving an electric golf unless it improves useability, extends range or uses more viable fuel. Currently none of the above are the case.

    Electric golfs are a farce, you're right there, but because of the price !

    The point to most people Jim is the cost to run, maintain etc. most people don't care or as I said if they did they wouldn't buy diesels.

    Electrics are also very good to drive.

    Electrics have 0 emissions while driving and are far cleaner to have in town and cities, more and more electricity is being generated using renewable and gas which is far cleaner than diesel.


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    #39
    wotswattage
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭wotswattage


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    Do we produce electrify in Ireland that makes electric cars actually more ecological than ICE cars. By ecological I'm meen do they pollute more than their ICE car equivalents due to the power station emmisons?

    I don't know. I don't have the facts to hand. I would wager that the % of the emissions required to charge one car from a power station are less than those produced by fuelling cars on an individual basis.


    We can certainly put 80 miles worth of electricity into a car more cheaply than the equivalent 80 miles worth of petrol/diesel.


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    #40
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    And I'll say it again, electric "Golfs" are a farce. If it's not about environmental matters then what's the point! There's no point driving an electric golf unless it improves useability, extends range or uses more viable fuel. Currently none of the above are the case.

    The only thing that is a "farce" is the price of the E-Golf. 24% of electricity generated in December 2013 came from wind stations.


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    #41
    Nixer Jim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Nixer Jim


    Sitec wrote: »
    24% of electricity generated in December 2013 came from wind stations.


    At what cost? Both financially and environmentally?


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    #42
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/wind-energy-eases-cost-of-power-255088.html


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    #43
    Nixer Jim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Nixer Jim


    [Deleted User] wrote: »

    Electrics are also very good to drive.
    .

    Despite the discussion we are having, I couldn't agree more. They are fantastic to drive, I love them. I just don't see the sense in them yet. I also think that sometimes by forcing the issue we can muck things up.


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    #44
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    At what cost? Both financially and environmentally?

    Financially you're paying 1% less electricity cost without even driving an EV.

    Environmentally, 24% of energy to the grid was generated without fossil fuel.


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    #45
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    win win in fairness.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nixer Jim wrote: »
    Despite the discussion we are having, I couldn't agree more. They are fantastic to drive, I love them. I just don't see the sense in them yet. I also think that sometimes by forcing the issue we can muck things up.

    Well that alone is good enough for me along with a fraction of the cost to run !


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    #47
    Nixer Jim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Nixer Jim


    Sitec wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/wind-energy-eases-cost-of-power-255088.html

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/98699


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    #48
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    In fairness that article could be right by "indymedia". The stats on "The Examiner" are from the ESB.


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    #49
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    As a second car it could make sense for someone living in Dublin. The wife drops the kids to school in the morning and then travels 15 miles to work and back. Way less than 80 - 100 miles a day.

    That would work for us...bar the odd trip down the country, we could live with it as I suspect most people in Dublin could.


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    #50
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    mfceiling wrote: »
    As a second car it could make sense for someone living in Dublin. The wife drops the kids to school in the morning and then travels 15 miles to work and back. Way less than 80 - 100 miles a day.

    That would work for us...bar the odd trip down the country, we could live with it as I suspect most people in Dublin could.

    Most people down the country have similar use. School runs, running about the local area. As a second car in the situation where someone was considering a new golf anyway, it really would be worth looking at.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mickdw wrote: »
    Most people down the country have similar use. School runs, running about the local area. As a second car in the situation where someone was considering a new golf anyway, it really would be worth looking at.

    Maybe they would be considering a new golf, but not 35K Eur's worth I'm sure.


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    #52
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Folks, there's no point in comparing an E-Golf to a real Golf - as Mad_Lad says, the competition is the Leaf or BMW E3. Nobody buys an electric car if they are interested in range - they don't do range.

    Of course, almost no-one buys an electric car at all, but the relevant comparisons are with the Leaf, not the diesel Octavia.


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    #53
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Maybe they would be considering a new golf, but not 35K Eur's worth I'm sure.
    Well what does a mid spec 1.6 tdi costs - about 26k Im sure. Considering the fuel savings, if they got the price down to around 30k, it would make alot of sense for alot of people.
    You would have to consider that they will get a handle on production costs in short time if they start to sell afew. Im sure it would be relatively easy to roll out the electric version of alot more models across the whole VAG range too.


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    #54
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,415 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    It'd be the same price as an A3 S line DSG

    If you're a city slicker with 35k and space to charge it, then this might be an alternative. There's the novelty value too.


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    #55
    hognef
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭hognef


    Supergurrier wrote: »
    Yet they sell like hotcakes in Norway.

    Buyers of electric vehicles in Norway are heavily incentivised through:

    - no VRT
    - no VAT
    - significantly reduced motor tax
    - free parking
    - free driving on tolled roads
    - access to bus lanes
    - free charging
    - free ferry crossings
    - 50% reduction in company car taxation
    - a larger difference between the costs of electricity and traditional fuels, than in Ireland (electricity is a quarter of Irish prices, petrol roughly 20% higher than Irish prices)
    - actual green and renewable electricity


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    It'd be the same price as an A3 S line DSG

    If you're a city slicker with 35k and space to charge it, then this might be an alternative. There's the novelty value too.

    No, I'd have to draw the line somewhere on this, 35 K is mental money for a small car like a Golf no matter the engine, fuel or trim leccy or not !

    Remember, the E-Golf is a Euro version of a compliance car, nothing more so VW don't care if it sells or not. It's construction was to satisfy the German Government, nothing more. VW couldn't care less if the Golf EV sells or not as they have no interest in electrics until such time as EV's start to threaten their ICE sales.

    I would go with the Leaf any day because it's a good car, proved to be reliable. And it's a lot cheaper and as good as the Golf. The Golf is not worth 10K euro's more.

    And Nissan are the pioneers in affordable EV development who took a major risk but will pay off in the end, for now they loose money on every single leaf but they will start to make money the more they sell.

    I'd have to buy a Leaf for that reason alone, because Nissan want electrics to be successful while the Germans will only care once they can make money from them.

    Electrics are Tesla's bread and butter not the Germans, there's no reason the Germans couldn't do the same. Tesla make good electrics because they have to, the Germans make any old e.v because they're told to, because any O'l ev will do to keep the Government off their backs.


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    #57
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,415 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    So do you think anyone will buy one?


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    So do you think anyone will buy one?

    Unfortunately at the price, I doubt many will at all, not in Ireland. Even if I had the money I wouldn't spend 35K one one, even the I3 has a 7.5 second 0-100 kph and is 2 K cheaper than the bloody VW.

    Not only that, there is 0 fast CCS chargers at this time too, the bright sparks in Europe and the U.S decided to adopt a new standard, fair enough but at least Tesla had the brains to offer a CHAdeMo adapter for their model S cars so they could use the existing fast charge network !

    A lot of people would rather buy the 1.6 TDI for 25K and realise that 10K extra would buy a lot of diesel, even considering maintenance savings. That would be a good few years driving for many !


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    #59
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,415 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    When it comes to vw buyers I wouldn't rule anything out.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    When it comes to vw buyers I wouldn't rule anything out.

    Indeed !

    It's just amazes me that after 2 years 3 months that the E-Golf is the best they could come up with knowing that in 3 years Nissan will have a much better Leaf and Tesla the (affordable 200 mile EV)


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    #61
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,415 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Off topic madlad, but have you seen the new Toyota Aqua?

    Assume its related to the yaris hybrid. Badged as the Prius c as well


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