VW E-Golf launched

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/02/20140215-egolf.html

A claimed 12.7 kwh/100 Kms. Consumption V the Leaf's 15.

Meaning the E-Golf needs 20kwh to go 160 kms or just over 100 miels V the Leaf's 30 kwh/100 miles.

I severely doubt the E-Golf is that much more efficient than the Leaf, using a whopping 10 Kwh less per 100 miles. Not a hope in hell.

They must have been getting that from the NEDC test which is completely bogus and the E.U needs to step in to protect consumers from outrageous mpg expectations and EV ranges !!!

Anyway 35K for the E-Golf and probably hasn't much more range than the MK 1.5 leaf with heatpump and more efficient regen.

Still, that is 3500 Euro's cheapet than the GTD TDI 180 hp DSG, though that has about an 0-100 kphof about 7.5 seconds compared to 10.5 for the E-Golf, though the E-Golf will have a fraction of the running costs.

colm_mcm

It looks normal though. That'll be enough to get one over the leaf for a lot of people

For 15,000 Euro's more than the Basic Leaf though ? or 10 K for the pretty well equipped mid range SV or 8K more than the top range leaf.

I can't wait for an EPA review !

I do like the idea of DSG Style flappy paddles to control regen strength.

Interslice

VW have'nt been particularly real world with their tdi fuel consumption claims of late. Wouldn't be surprised if the e-golf is the same.

3.2l/100km out of the new 1.6tdi golf apparently :cool:.

Interslice

Interslice wrote: »

VW have'nt been particularly real world with their tdi fuel consumption claims of late. Wouldn't be surprised if the e-golf is the same.

3.2l/100km out of the new 1.6tdi golf apparently :cool:.

88 mpg would love one for a week though to see what I could get, same with Renaults new Clio with claimed 90 mpg.

The E-Golf might be more efficient than a Leaf but the Leaf's 30 kwh/100 miles is the EPA rating.

Even if the E-golf managed 10 more miles per charge than the Leaf I still don't think it's 10,000 Euro's price tag is worth it. Especially considering there are 0 CCS fast chargers yet.

Supergurrier

Great to see a proper mainstream EV finally

Sitec

Sitec wrote: »

How fast will they charge a car?

20 mins v 30 for Leaf to 80% though some sources say 30 mins too. Still researching.

Supergurrier

Sitec wrote: »

I agree but the pricing is ridiculous, if they could make a Golf EV for circa 25k they would be on to a winner.

Yet they sell like hotcakes in Norway.

Positive taxation would make them very attractive also some more charge points.

bazz26

Interslice wrote: »

VW have'nt been particularly real world with their tdi fuel consumption claims of late. Wouldn't be surprised if the e-golf is the same.

3.2l/100km out of the new 1.6tdi golf apparently :cool:.

Lol, very true. I have a loan of a Mk7 1.6 TDi at the moment. Drove it from Belfast to Limerick yesterday and it used more fuel than my CC 2.0 TDi did doing the reverse journey 2 days earlier.

Sitec

Sitec wrote: »

Nice little leap in technology there, hopefully in five years time it will be down to ten minutes.

Yeah sorry had to edit that , conflicting information on that.

Pity more reading seems to suggest 30 min fast charging.

bazz26

Sitec wrote: »

Is it a new car? Engine might not be broke in yet.

The car has over 5k miles on it. The Golf is only 5 speed but still proves the point that small engines are not automatically the most economical. I wouldn't swap the comfort of my CC for the Golf either.

Anyway gone OT.

Days 298

A lot more eye pleasing than a leaf. I'd say most would prefer the egolf to a leaf. Golf is already a recognized model of car.

Nixer Jim

But the burning question;

How long does it take to drive from Dublin to Cork?

A) 2 hours , 29 minutes.

3 hours , 15 minutes.

C) An entire day, maybe slightly longer!

Still useless if you want to go anywhere except in and out of work for a short distance, in which case it's far more environmentally friendly to take public transport.

When they can do 250 miles on a charge, be recharged in roughly the same time as
It takes to fill a fuel tank and that fuel tank doesn't need replacing after 7-10 years, then they might be considered useful for the majority. Till then, utterly useless.

mickdw

Nixer Jim wrote: »

But the burning question;

How long does it take to drive from Dublin to Cork?

A) 2 hours , 29 minutes.

3 hours , 15 minutes.

C) An entire day, maybe slightly longer!

Still useless if you want to go anywhere except in and out of work for a short distance, in which case it's far more environmentally friendly to take public transport.

When they can do 250 miles on a charge, be recharged in roughly the same time as
It takes to fill a fuel tank and that fuel tank doesn't need replacing after 7-10 years, then they might be considered useful for the majority. Till then, utterly useless.

I don't know. I think they actually have a place now in 2 car households.
Seeing as many are buying on pcp type deals, If the ev golf has good resale value, the actual price might not be a major issue.

Dublin to cork would add about 30 mins, but not exactly useless, longer trips might be a pain alright but I'm sure most people can get a loan of a nice for a day.

Those who can afford a model s would have no worries of course.

As a 2 car household we wouldn't have issue. I don't think I'd have issue with one 30 min stop or 2 for the couple of times a year I might need to.

But the leaf is more than capable of doing my 20,000 mile yearly commute with a daily fast charge of 5-10 mins over lunch, the charger is only 5 mins away from where I work now.

But back to the golf, better looking or not it's still not worth 10 grand more than the leaf.

wotswattage

Nixer Jim wrote: »

But the burning question;

How long does it take to drive from Dublin to Cork?

A) 2 hours , 29 minutes.

3 hours , 15 minutes.

C) An entire day, maybe slightly longer!

Still useless if you want to go anywhere except in and out of work for a short distance, in which case it's far more environmentally friendly to take public transport.

When they can do 250 miles on a charge, be recharged in roughly the same time as
It takes to fill a fuel tank and that fuel tank doesn't need replacing after 7-10 years, then they might be considered useful for the majority. Till then, utterly useless.

Yes you can drive your petrol/diesel car for 250 miles without going to the petrol station, but with an electric car you NEVER go to the petrol station. Every morning you have the car fully charged to do 80 miles driving. In other words you could do 30,000 miles in a year with only nightly charges. 80 miles in a day is more than enough for the vast majority of drivers.

Maybe not suited to someone who spends hours commuting, but not utterly useless.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

I don't know. I think they actually have a place now in 2 car households.
Seeing as many are buying on pcp type deals, If the ev golf has good resale value, the actual price might not be a major issue.

I doubt with a price 10 k more than the leaf that pcp on the golf would be reasonable even if it has better resale value.

Actually come to think of it, the BMW. I 3 costs about 33 k and has a 0-62 of 7.5 seconds and has the option to drive itself up to 40 mph.

Btw don't know what the irish price of the Golf is yet.

Nixer Jim

wotswattage wrote: »

Maybe not suited to someone who spends hours commuting, but not utterly useless.

The limitations are to restrictive though. What if you want to go somewhere without a charge point? What if you want to do 100 miles, not 90? What if you're battery is empty, your child is sick at 8 in the evening and you need to rush to the doctor? With a regular ICE car there are no limitations, fuel up and go anywhere, anytime.

Then there's the issue of why the EU wants us driving electric cars and more the more potent question, where the electricity is coming from.

If every ICE car was replaced with electric cars in the morning, we'd likely have even more pollution emitted, especially given the way we generate electricity in this country. Infact, if you were in Poland, you're actually doing considerably more damage to the environment because they generate 100% of their electricity from coal.

Then there's the green energy savings myth. The level of subsidy into green energy in this country is far too disproportionate to the amount of return we're getting. If electric vehicles take off, we won't be saving a penny. Infact it'll be costing everybody fortunes more through taxation, taxation needed to fund green energy which is completely unviable in any of it's current forms. Gotta meet those EU targets though.

When electricity is generated via actual emmison reducing methods and those methods are financially viable, then we should consider electric vehicles. For now though we'll continue to fund unviable green methods and simultaneously burn more oil, gas and turf to make up the gap. (unless you count that tabboo in Ireland, British nuclear coming under the Irish sea)

Nixer Jim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dublin to cork would add about 30 mins, but not exactly useless, longer trips might be a pain alright but I'm sure most people can get a loan of a nice for a day

You see that's my point, they are a pain in the arse. Take an ordinary persons ordinary day and roll in that weekend trip to Cork.

8 am, full charge and you leave your house in Wicklow town lets say ( just for example)

You drive to work in Dublin, drive home early to pick up the missus and kids, then head for Cork circa 4pm that evening. That's not just a pain, that's unviable for any rational human with two screaming kids. That's not adding one 30 minute stop to get to Macroom.That's a weekend destroying litany of charges. One new Skoda Octavia diesel would cost less and do it all on one tank of fuel. Why would I give that up?

wotswattage

Nixer Jim wrote: »

You see that's my point, they are a pain in the arse. Take an ordinary persons ordinary day and roll in that weekend trip to Cork.

8 am, full charge and you leave your house in Wicklow town lets say ( just for example)

You drive to work in Dublin, drive home early to pick up the missus and kids, then head for Cork circa 4pm that evening. That's not just a pain, that's unviable for any rational human with two screaming kids. That's not adding one 30 minute stop to get to Macroom.That's a weekend destroying litany of charges. One new Skoda Octavia diesel would cost less and do it all on one tank of fuel. Why would I give that up?

Because if you drove 18,000 miles (EDIT: 18000 is only 50 miles a day) in a year charging it nightly it'd cost you less than €470 in electricity. Same mileage in a 50mpg diesel would cost you €2,300 in diesel. (thanks here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88894950&postcount=42). That's the reality that people obsessed with mpg and tax in a diesel are completely ignoring in Ireland at the moment..

Drive more or keep it for 2 years and you'd be saving way more.

The debate on how power is generated is for another forum really, but surely the economy of scale with an oil fired power station charging 1000 cars at their 'house' is more efficient than the fuel being further refined, divided and transported to each petrol station then being further divided into the fuel tank of each respective car. And thats for an oil fired station. 100% free unlimited wind is obviously much more efficient again.

Nixer Jim

wotswattage wrote: »

Because if you drove 18,000 miles (EDIT: 18000 is only 50 miles a day) in a year charging it nightly it'd cost you less than €470 in electricity. Same mileage in a 50mpg diesel would cost you €2,300 in diesel. (thanks here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88894950&postcount=42)

But I'm not saving. For every new green energy incentive, my taxes are just going skyward to subsidize green energy. 28 cent alone has been dropped on to a liter of petrol/diesel since this government came to power. That's all in the name of green credentials. But it's nuts. It's just paying for unaffordable fuel somewhere else.

As for the side step of the how electricity is generated, I find that ridiculous. That's central to the entire point. Green energy is only green when it's generated carbon free. Carbon free energy is currently unaffordable.

The ICE car won't last forver but the electric alternative is not ready, not realworld useable and nowhere near as green as it's made out to be.

When it's better it will naturally replace the inferior concept. For now it's nothing more than an agenda for a few and nod to Kyoto emission regs, otherwise known as vastly profitable for some key people worldwide, all at the ordinary tax payers expense yet again.

Nixer Jim

Nixer Jim wrote: »

You see that's my point, they are a pain in the arse. Take an ordinary persons ordinary day and roll in that weekend trip to Cork.

8 am, full charge and you leave your house in Wicklow town lets say ( just for example)

You drive to work in Dublin, drive home early to pick up the missus and kids, then head for Cork circa 4pm that evening. That's not just a pain, that's unviable for any rational human with two screaming kids. That's not adding one 30 minute stop to get to Macroom.That's a weekend destroying litany of charges. One new Skoda Octavia diesel would cost less and do it all on one tank of fuel. Why would I give that up?

Jim, a skoda wouldn't cost less, sure if the leaf doesn't suit you or anyone I'm not telling you to buy one.

I never said electrics in their current form are suitable for everyone.

For me a high mileage driver that does 20-25 k miles a year, the leaf is suitable. If for the trip it would be too much hassle 2-3 times a year maybe less than I'd simply hop in the Prius.

Remember it's a limitation of cost not technology why we don't have a 200 mile range affordable ev.

Nixer Jim

Nixer Jim wrote: »

But I'm not saving. For every new green energy incentive, my taxes are just going skyward to subsidize green energy. 28 cent alone has been dropped on to a liter of petrol/diesel since this government came to power. That's all in the name of green credentials. But it's nuts. It's just paying for unaffordable fuel somewhere else.

As for the side step of the how electricity is generated, I find that ridiculous. That's central to the entire point. Green energy is only green when it's generated carbon free. Carbon free energy is currently unaffordable.

The ICE car won't last forver but the electric alternative is not ready, not realworld useable and nowhere near as green as it's made out to be.

When it's better it will naturally replace the inferior concept. For now it's nothing more than an agenda for a few and nod to Kyoto emission regs, otherwise known as vastly profitable for some key people worldwide, all at the ordinary tax payers expense yet again.

No one saves money buying a new car, but for the same purchase price electrics are cheaper than anything to run available.

And another thing, while electrics may have fuel from mostly fossil fuel stations they charge at night when power stations have to be kept burning fuel to be ready to meet demand which is very wasteful.

Electrics remove most of the harmful emissions from towns and cities, while elimination of diesel and converting to gas would probably make the most sense for now that doesn't mean electrics are bad for the environment. More electricity is been generated from renewables but I would like to see nuclear added to the mix tho ugh Ireland maybe too small for such a power station, liquid fluoride thorium reactors could be a solution in the future! another topic.

As far as tax goes, they don't have to crucify ev owners because more and more new taxes are coming on line such as property and water, so the books will balance out in the end.

For me I think electric drive is far superior, I loved the drive I the leaf and I'm a technology nut.

We are in the early days of electrics, but in 2017 leaf II and the affordable tesla that promise 200 mile rage will be here. So that's not too far away.

wotswattage

Nixer Jim wrote: »

But I'm not saving. For every new green energy incentive, my taxes are just going skyward to subsidize green energy. 28 cent alone has been dropped on to a liter of petrol/diesel since this government came to power. That's all in the name of green credentials. But it's nuts. It's just paying for unaffordable fuel somewhere else.

As for the side step of the how electricity is generated, I find that ridiculous. That's central to the entire point. Green energy is only green when it's generated carbon free. Carbon free energy is currently unaffordable.

The ICE car won't last forver but the electric alternative is not ready, not realworld useable and nowhere near as green as it's made out to be.

When it's better it will naturally replace the inferior concept. For now it's nothing more than an agenda for a few and nod to Kyoto emission regs, otherwise known as vastly profitable for some key people worldwide, all at the ordinary tax payers expense yet again.

Well it's central to your entire point. You brought up green energy.
Not to my point which is based around A-B transport which costs less.

Most people who buy cars do not care about emissions or the environment, if they did they would not buy diesel cars, but they do for the cheap motor tax !

Anyway this thread is about the E-golf not how electricity is generated or green tax so please back on topic.

I'll say it again, anyone who doesn't like electrics, don't buy them, it's as simple as that.

Nixer Jim

wotswattage wrote: »

Well it's central to your entire point. You brought up green energy.
Not to my point which is based around A-B transport which costs less.

Do we produce electrify in Ireland that makes electric cars actually more ecological than ICE cars. By ecological I'm meen do they pollute more than their ICE car equivalents due to the power station emmisons?

Nixer Jim

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Do we produce electrify in Ireland that makes electric cars actually more ecological than ICE cars. By ecological I'm meen do they pollute more than their ICE car equivalents due to the power station emmisons?

Who cares Jim ? People who buy cars care about what they cost to run, environmental factors are out of most peoples hands.

As more renewables come online they probably are far cleaner and besides, they are emission free in towns and cites.

Nixer Jim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Most people who buy cars do not care about emissions or the environment, if they did they would not buy diesel cars, but they do for the cheap motor tax !

Anyway this thread is about the E-golf not how electricity is generated or green tax so please back on topic.

I'll say it again, anyone who doesn't like electrics, don't buy them, it's as simple as that.

And I'll say it again, electric "Golfs" are a farce. If it's not about environmental matters then what's the point! There's no point driving an electric golf unless it improves useability, extends range or uses more viable fuel. Currently none of the above are the case.

Nixer Jim

Nixer Jim wrote: »

And I'll say it again, electric "Golfs" are a farce. If it's not about environmental matters then what's the point! There's no point driving an electric golf unless it improves useability, extends range or uses more viable fuel. Currently none of the above are the case.

Electric golfs are a farce, you're right there, but because of the price !

The point to most people Jim is the cost to run, maintain etc. most people don't care or as I said if they did they wouldn't buy diesels.

Electrics are also very good to drive.

Electrics have 0 emissions while driving and are far cleaner to have in town and cities, more and more electricity is being generated using renewable and gas which is far cleaner than diesel.

wotswattage

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Do we produce electrify in Ireland that makes electric cars actually more ecological than ICE cars. By ecological I'm meen do they pollute more than their ICE car equivalents due to the power station emmisons?

I don't know. I don't have the facts to hand. I would wager that the % of the emissions required to charge one car from a power station are less than those produced by fuelling cars on an individual basis.


We can certainly put 80 miles worth of electricity into a car more cheaply than the equivalent 80 miles worth of petrol/diesel.

Nixer Jim

Sitec wrote: »

24% of electricity generated in December 2013 came from wind stations.

At what cost? Both financially and environmentally?

Nixer Jim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Electrics are also very good to drive.
.

Despite the discussion we are having, I couldn't agree more. They are fantastic to drive, I love them. I just don't see the sense in them yet. I also think that sometimes by forcing the issue we can muck things up.

Nixer Jim

Nixer Jim wrote: »

Despite the discussion we are having, I couldn't agree more. They are fantastic to drive, I love them. I just don't see the sense in them yet. I also think that sometimes by forcing the issue we can muck things up.

Well that alone is good enough for me along with a fraction of the cost to run !

Nixer Jim

Sitec wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/wind-energy-eases-cost-of-power-255088.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/98699

mfceiling

As a second car it could make sense for someone living in Dublin. The wife drops the kids to school in the morning and then travels 15 miles to work and back. Way less than 80 - 100 miles a day.

That would work for us...bar the odd trip down the country, we could live with it as I suspect most people in Dublin could.

mickdw

mfceiling wrote: »

As a second car it could make sense for someone living in Dublin. The wife drops the kids to school in the morning and then travels 15 miles to work and back. Way less than 80 - 100 miles a day.

That would work for us...bar the odd trip down the country, we could live with it as I suspect most people in Dublin could.

Most people down the country have similar use. School runs, running about the local area. As a second car in the situation where someone was considering a new golf anyway, it really would be worth looking at.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

Most people down the country have similar use. School runs, running about the local area. As a second car in the situation where someone was considering a new golf anyway, it really would be worth looking at.

Maybe they would be considering a new golf, but not 35K Eur's worth I'm sure.

Zubeneschamali

Folks, there's no point in comparing an E-Golf to a real Golf - as Mad_Lad says, the competition is the Leaf or BMW E3. Nobody buys an electric car if they are interested in range - they don't do range.

Of course, almost no-one buys an electric car at all, but the relevant comparisons are with the Leaf, not the diesel Octavia.

mickdw

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe they would be considering a new golf, but not 35K Eur's worth I'm sure.

Well what does a mid spec 1.6 tdi costs - about 26k Im sure. Considering the fuel savings, if they got the price down to around 30k, it would make alot of sense for alot of people.
You would have to consider that they will get a handle on production costs in short time if they start to sell afew. Im sure it would be relatively easy to roll out the electric version of alot more models across the whole VAG range too.

colm_mcm

It'd be the same price as an A3 S line DSG

If you're a city slicker with 35k and space to charge it, then this might be an alternative. There's the novelty value too.

hognef

Supergurrier wrote: »

Yet they sell like hotcakes in Norway.

Buyers of electric vehicles in Norway are heavily incentivised through:

- no VRT
- no VAT
- significantly reduced motor tax
- free parking
- free driving on tolled roads
- access to bus lanes
- free charging
- free ferry crossings
- 50% reduction in company car taxation
- a larger difference between the costs of electricity and traditional fuels, than in Ireland (electricity is a quarter of Irish prices, petrol roughly 20% higher than Irish prices)
- actual green and renewable electricity

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

It'd be the same price as an A3 S line DSG

If you're a city slicker with 35k and space to charge it, then this might be an alternative. There's the novelty value too.

No, I'd have to draw the line somewhere on this, 35 K is mental money for a small car like a Golf no matter the engine, fuel or trim leccy or not !

Remember, the E-Golf is a Euro version of a compliance car, nothing more so VW don't care if it sells or not. It's construction was to satisfy the German Government, nothing more. VW couldn't care less if the Golf EV sells or not as they have no interest in electrics until such time as EV's start to threaten their ICE sales.

I would go with the Leaf any day because it's a good car, proved to be reliable. And it's a lot cheaper and as good as the Golf. The Golf is not worth 10K euro's more.

And Nissan are the pioneers in affordable EV development who took a major risk but will pay off in the end, for now they loose money on every single leaf but they will start to make money the more they sell.

I'd have to buy a Leaf for that reason alone, because Nissan want electrics to be successful while the Germans will only care once they can make money from them.

Electrics are Tesla's bread and butter not the Germans, there's no reason the Germans couldn't do the same. Tesla make good electrics because they have to, the Germans make any old e.v because they're told to, because any O'l ev will do to keep the Government off their backs.

colm_mcm

So do you think anyone will buy one?

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

So do you think anyone will buy one?

Unfortunately at the price, I doubt many will at all, not in Ireland. Even if I had the money I wouldn't spend 35K one one, even the I3 has a 7.5 second 0-100 kph and is 2 K cheaper than the bloody VW.

Not only that, there is 0 fast CCS chargers at this time too, the bright sparks in Europe and the U.S decided to adopt a new standard, fair enough but at least Tesla had the brains to offer a CHAdeMo adapter for their model S cars so they could use the existing fast charge network !

A lot of people would rather buy the 1.6 TDI for 25K and realise that 10K extra would buy a lot of diesel, even considering maintenance savings. That would be a good few years driving for many !

colm_mcm

When it comes to vw buyers I wouldn't rule anything out.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

When it comes to vw buyers I wouldn't rule anything out.

Indeed !

It's just amazes me that after 2 years 3 months that the E-Golf is the best they could come up with knowing that in 3 years Nissan will have a much better Leaf and Tesla the (affordable 200 mile EV)

colm_mcm

Off topic madlad, but have you seen the new Toyota Aqua?

Assume its related to the yaris hybrid. Badged as the Prius c as well