Don't marry a Non-EU Spouse if you are poor or disabled

MadsL

Uriel. wrote: »

Tough conditions for residency?

Oh a few, but I don't have an exhaustive list.

Circumstances surrounding criminal record

Background checks are already made.

Purpose of residency (education or a sponsored qualifying job)

What purposes would be disallowed? Housewife?

Ability to support oneself

Define this please

Strict time limits of residence depending on purpose

Time limits? On a marriage?

Disqualification conditions

What does this mean?

The bottom line is depending on the circumstances, the Irish priority must be on housing, jobs, school and college places etc for the Irish. Of course I do by favour a prohibition on immigrants, far from it, but I do believe we must take as many steps as possible to protect the state from issues such as welfare migration, fraudulent marriage etc

This is just waffle honestly, there are already protections against welfare migration and fraudulent marriage.

jimboblep

spank_inferno wrote: »

About 3/4 of workers earn less than 40k.

This is pathetic.

thats 40k divided over 3 years not per annum

MadsL

Boskowski wrote: »

But the discussion is about someone with no means and a spouse with no citizenship. Doesn't sound like that applies to you?

???

I have no idea why you are referencing me. My point is that I expect nothing from my adopted country until I earn the right to be a citizen.

seb65

Uriel. wrote: »

Tough conditions for residency?

Oh a few, but I don't have an exhaustive list.

Circumstances surrounding criminal record
Purpose of residency (education or a sponsored qualifying job)
Ability to support oneself
Strict time limits of residence depending on purpose
Disqualification conditions

Plenty of others I'm sure if I sat down to right a policy paper on the matter.

The bottom line is depending on the circumstances, the Irish priority must be on housing, jobs, school and college places etc for the Irish. Of course I do by favour a prohibition on immigrants, far from it, but I do believe we must take as many steps as possible to protect the state from issues such as welfare migration, fraudulent marriage etc

1) Those are the normal conditions for residency, not tough.
2) What do they have to do with spousal residency?
3) Overseas students paying overseas fees to Irish colleges provides income to them that they desperately need.

B.A._Baracus

Uriel. wrote: »

That that poster has an entitlement to a view on the matter. I thought that was obvious to be honest

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinon :pac:

But may I ask, what forms your opinion? Like lets look at it from two different angles. Scamming and genuine. On the scamming side of things I get why people would support. But what about the genuine side of things? Tough shite like?

I mean it's 2014. Not 1974. Its not unusual to see an Irish person dating a non-Irish person these days not to mention its common for irish people to go work abroad / non-irish people to come over to Ireland etc. People are gonna hook up. People are going to fall in love.

Uriel.

MadsL wrote: »

Background checks are already made.


What purposes would be disallowed? Housewife?

I
Define this please


Time limits? On a marriage?


What does this mean?



This is just waffle honestly, there are already protections against welfare migration and fraudulent marriage.

I never once said any of the above were not already in play nor did I say that there weren't already in place conditions on residency. I said I favour tough conditions full stop.

This policy change increases the strictness of the conditions.

Generally, I am in favour of this approach as previously outlined.

MadsL

Uriel. wrote: »

I never once said any of the above were not already in play nor did I say that there weren't already in place conditions on residency. I said I favour tough conditions full stop.

This policy change increases the strictness of the conditions.

Generally, I am in favour of this approach as previously outlined.

This policy change only affects financial history, what others do you want to be "tough" or are they tough already?

Uriel.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinon :pac:

But may I ask, what forms your opinion? Like lets look at it from two different angles. Scamming and genuine. On the scamming side of things I get why people would support. But what about the genuine side of things? Tough shite like?
I
I mean it's 2014. Not 1974. Its not unusual to see an Irish person dating a non-Irish person these days not to mention its common for irish people to go work abroad / non-irish people to come over to Ireland etc. People are gonna hook up. People are going to fall in love.

I don't disagree with you. I am about to marry a non-Irish citizen ;-)

As I've said I favour making it difficult and having safeguards in place to deal with non genuine cases.

Is the alternative an open border? I'm talking generally here, not specifically in respect of the policy change in question.

I really just see that putting across strict conditions will deter the would be fraudsters from taking advantage of loop holes (E. G. The Chen case, though I would not describe the mother in that case necessarily as a fraudster)

Also, I do think there is a necessity to protect indigenous interests. Not of course to the point of blanket banning all immigrants or something mad like that, but rather to ensure careful management of our immigration.

Uriel.

MadsL wrote: »

This policy change only affects financial history, what others do you want to be "tough" or are they tough already?

Some are tough, some perhaps are not. As I said I favour tough conditions but I haven't written a policy paper setting out the ideal scenarios and procedures.

MadsL

Uriel. wrote: »

Some are tough, some perhaps are not. As I said I favour tough conditions but I haven't written a policy paper setting out the ideal scenarios and procedures.

Fair enough, but you can see why people would ask what you mean by 'tough'.

Boskowski

MadsL wrote: »

???

I have no idea why you are referencing me. My point is that I expect nothing from my adopted country until I earn the right to be a citizen.

Didn't mean to offend, you brought your own circumstances into the discussion not me.

Uriel.

seb65 wrote: »

1) Those are the normal conditions for residency, not tough.
2) What do they have to do with spousal residency?
3) Overseas students paying overseas fees to Irish colleges provides income to them that they desperately need.

1 ok
2 nothing. Never said they did
3 no problem..

I will reiterate I favour strong national control on residency and citizenship full stop. The means to do this are a matter for the legislature and policy makers. I am happy with their approach generally. I do not want to blanket ban or immigration.

MadsL

Uriel. wrote: »

I don't disagree with you. I am about to marry a non-Irish citizen ;-)

Congrats. Hope the Govt don't get in the way

As I've said I favour making it difficult and having safeguards in place to deal with non genuine cases.

Is the alternative an open border? I'm talking generally here, not specifically in respect of the policy change in question.

Open border has nothing to do with genuine marriage and it is easy to test a genuine marriage.

I really just see that putting across strict conditions will deter the would be fraudsters from taking advantage of loop holes (E. G. The Chen case, though I would not describe the mother in that case necessarily as a fraudster)

Also, I do think there is a necessity to protect indigenous interests. Not of course to the point of blanket banning all immigrants or something mad like that, but rather to ensure careful management of our immigration.

The conditions are, as you have admitted already strict. This financial requirements is however not equitable and in my opinion discriminates against many in Irish society.

And I'm going to leave it there..

Uriel.

MadsL wrote: »

Fair enough, but you can see why people would ask what you mean by 'tough'.

Not really to be honest. As I said I made a statement regarding my view that it should be difficult to become resident in ireland. If tough is the wrong to use, so be it, mea culpa, but again I say, my favoured approach is to make it difficult to gain residencny in ireland.

Ush1

MadsL wrote: »

And hence my objection...

Let's say a billionaire wants to move to Ireland and marry a disabled man who is not working.

Refused.

Huh?

Is this what actually happens? I have a feeling a billionaire could find a loophole.

Ush1

MadsL wrote: »

And hence my objection...

Let's say a billionaire wants to move to Ireland and marry a disabled man who is not working.

Refused.

Huh?

Is this what actually happens? I have a feeling a billionaire could find a loophole.

AngryHippie

This really sh!ts me off.
A decision is going to be made that will seriously affect my ability to return home with my soon to be wife. And I am not allowed have an input

I brought it up recently http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2014/02/10/many-of-my-emigrantfriends-are-now-moving-back-home/ and the attitude received has been pretty depressing.

If I haven't been contributing to the Irish Economy (i.e. paying income tax) for the previous 3 years, I will not be able to go back home for a few years to try and put the life I left back together ?
Or if I do, She cannot be a part of it ?

I can completely understand that there needs to be some form of regulation, and a policy, but the strokes here are too broad. Do as is done over here in Oz, set out criteria that you will be tested on, and process the applications on a case by case basis.
The Oz immigration system handles a volume that would make Ireland pop at the seams, and does it pretty fairly from most accounts. Why can our gubberment never fcuking learn from a system that works, and instead try and patch something together like a collage of half baked ideas and end up making a balls of it ?
Not only that, but Citizens of Australia, regardless of their location in the world are entitled to cast a vote in their local embassy or consulate. How novel, good system, and it works.

Nah, lets chuck it in the too hard pile, make a hames of what we put in place instead, ignore peoples complaints about constitutional rights and get back to the dail bar. Hurray

osarusan

AngryHippie wrote: »

This really sh!ts me off.
A decision is going to be made that will seriously affect my ability to return home with my soon to be wife. And I am not allowed have an input

I brought it up recently http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2014/02/10/many-of-my-emigrantfriends-are-now-moving-back-home/ and the attitude received has been pretty depressing.

If I haven't been contributing to the Irish Economy (i.e. paying income tax) for the previous 3 years, I will not be able to go back home for a few years to try and put the life I left back together ?
Or if I do, She cannot be a part of it ?

I can completely understand that there needs to be some form of regulation, and a policy, but the strokes here are too broad. Do as is done over here in Oz, set out criteria that you will be tested on, and process the applications on a case by case basis.
The Oz immigration system handles a volume that would make Ireland pop at the seams, and does it pretty fairly from most accounts. Why can our gubberment never fcuking learn from a system that works, and instead try and patch something together like a collage of half baked ideas and end up making a balls of it ?
Not only that, but Citizens of Australia, regardless of their location in the world are entitled to cast a vote in their local embassy or consulate. How novel, good system, and it works.

Nah, lets chuck it in the too hard pile, make a hames of what we put in place instead, ignore peoples complaints about constitutional rights and get back to the dail bar. Hurray

According to citizensinformation.ie, there are a list of countries which are visa-exempt, as in, these foreign nationals do not need a visa to enter and stay in Ireland. Australia is in the list.

you can find it here under schedule 1: (scroll down to item 3)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0146.html

It is hereby declared that the following classes of non-nationals are specified as classes the members of which are not required to be in possession of a valid Irish visa when landing in the State:

(a) nationals of a state or territorial entity specified in Schedule 1;

..
..
..
Australia

Is this information no longer valid?

B.A._Baracus

osarusan wrote: »

According to citizensinformation.ie, there are a list of countries which are visa-exempt, as in, these foreign nationals do not need a visa to enter and stay in Ireland. Australia is in the list.

you can find it here under schedule 1: (scroll down to item 3)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0146.html



Is this information no longer valid?

But does that just mean come and stay on your passport for up to 3 months?

Guess I'll never be living in Ireland again.. Been gone for three years, can't prove any income and will likely marry my Vietnamese girlfriend. Thanks Ireland.

AngryHippie

osarusan wrote: »

According to citizensinformation.ie, there are a list of countries which are visa-exempt, as in, these foreign nationals do not need a visa to enter and stay in Ireland. Australia is in the list.

you can find it here under schedule 1: (scroll down to item 3)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0146.html



Is this information no longer valid?

As per the title of the document -Not unless Australia is now in the EEA ?

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/funding/biomedical-science/application-information/wtd004113.ht

This is what I am talking about.

Instead of a comprehensive approach from top to bottom, bungling around patching legislation together and then writing a policy that is clearly ar$e about face from document title onwards.

What are we paying these clowns for ?

Frank Lee Midere

MadsL wrote: »

Go have a long think about that statement. You may wish to reword it.

No.

Frank Lee Midere

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Guess I'll never be living in Ireland again.. Been gone for three years, can't prove any income and will likely marry my Vietnamese girlfriend. Thanks Ireland.

If you are Irish of course this doesn't matter.

Frank Lee Midere

AngryHippie wrote: »

This really sh!ts me off.
A decision is going to be made that will seriously affect my ability to return home with my soon to be wife. And I am not allowed have an input

I brought it up recently http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2014/02/10/many-of-my-emigrantfriends-are-now-moving-back-home/ and the attitude received has been pretty depressing.

If I haven't been contributing to the Irish Economy (i.e. paying income tax) for the previous 3 years, I will not be able to go back home for a few years to try and put the life I left back together ?
Or if I do, She cannot be a part of it ?

I can completely understand that there needs to be some form of regulation, and a policy, but the strokes here are too broad. Do as is done over here in Oz, set out criteria that you will be tested on, and process the applications on a case by case basis.
The Oz immigration system handles a volume that would make Ireland pop at the seams, and does it pretty fairly from most accounts. Why can our gubberment never fcuking learn from a system that works, and instead try and patch something together like a collage of half baked ideas and end up making a balls of it ?
Not only that, but Citizens of Australia, regardless of their location in the world are entitled to cast a vote in their local embassy or consulate. How novel, good system, and it works.

Nah, lets chuck it in the too hard pile, make a hames of what we put in place instead, ignore peoples complaints about constitutional rights and get back to the dail bar. Hurray

Australia can control its immigration - as it does very rigorously - because it's not obliged to allow 400 million or so people freedom of movement. Ireland is so obliged.

osarusan

AngryHippie wrote: »

As per the title of the document -Not unless Australia is now in the EEA ?

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/funding/biomedical-science/application-information/wtd004113.ht

This is what I am talking about.

Instead of a comprehensive approach from top to bottom, bungling around patching legislation together and then writing a policy that is clearly ar$e about face from document title onwards.

What are we paying these clowns for ?

That link doesn't bring up anything.

AngryHippie

type Non-EEA into google.

Result number 1 brings up the list of European Economic Area Countries:

Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Republic of Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
UK


NB while Switzerland is not in the EEA, Swiss nationals have the same rights as EEA nationals.

Frank Lee Midere

Anyway back to facts. I like facts. The Irish foreign born population was 17% in the last census, probably higher now.

http://cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasethisisireland-highlightsfromcensus2011part1/


No problem with that, they are integrating well but it's higher than the US. The US is 13%

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/10/foreign-born-population-in-u-s-higher-than-ever/

osarusan

AngryHippie wrote: »

type Non-EEA into google.

Result number 1 brings up the list of European Economic Area Countries:

To be honest, i don't understand what your specific issue is, either from your piece in the Irish Times or your posts on here.

Is your problem with getting a visa for your soon-to-be Australian wife?

Frank Lee Midere

AngryHippie wrote: »

type Non-EEA into google.

Result number 1 brings up the list of European Economic Area Countries:

So what's the point? That's not enough, we need to add Aussies?

MadsL

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Anyway back to facts. I like facts. The Irish foreign born population was 17% in the last census, probably higher now.

http://cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasethisisireland-highlightsfromcensus2011part1/


No problem with that, they are integrating well but it's higher than the US. The US is 13%

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/10/foreign-born-population-in-u-s-higher-than-ever/

If you like facts you should type more clearly, yes there are obviously proportionally more foreign born living in Ireland but that's not what you said.

If there is no problem with that, what is the problem?