organic farming

tanko

I see Clive Bright makes an appearance on Sean o falluins latest video on YouTube.

massey 265

Pricing structure for next 6 months for organic beef showing price dropping 50 cent per kilo over next 6 weeks from current 6 eu per kilo to under 5.50 .Not great outlook and 2k more after joining the organic scheme.

Rusheseverywhere

Not alone that but a trebling of the medication withdrawal period for aload of common medications/antibiotics.

Long story short as I said before organic is a nonsense for trying to farm commerically. I get the max payment so suits me but otherwise a cod.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120781970#Comment_120781970

Where is the detail on the trebling of withdrawal times?

Rusheseverywhere

Good Herdsmen leaflet. Came with prices. Will stick it up later or email them will send it to you,

tanko

Let’s face it, the Organic scheme is basically a Suckler/beef reduction/retirement scheme for most farmers who enter it. Farmers who have been getting robbed blind for their produce for decades have given up caring what crumbs the beef barons are going to throw them from now on.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120782040#Comment_120782040

The organic standard is double. Is this good herdsman specific requirement?

Rusheseverywhere

Agree Tanko and the 0.1 LU per HA for Organic shows just a land scheme now. 893 just Good Herdsmen. Slaney not to best of my knowledge have the antibiotics requirement. They have max 5 months in sheds. Essesntialy was the fluke stuff/ Oxytreacyline and Fluxeniol off the top of my head.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120781580#Comment_120781580

The government is now paying the premium. Except the price differential to get less and less.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120781970#Comment_120781970

Conventional Sheep and beef output is not exactly making millionaires out of folks either these days.... Indeed the EU has just blown nearly 2 billion Euros of the current CAP budget over the past few months putting a safety net under conventional grain, sheep, pigs etc. across the block

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120719651#Comment_120719651

Does anyone know where to find the exact payment rate? Let's say a 10 foot mower conditioner costs 22k to buy. Under TAMS 3 if we get a 60% grant does that mean there is a grant of 13,200 or does the dept have reference costs for the mower per foot of working width? Let's assume the reference cost is €1000 per foot, a 10 foot mower is costing €10,000. 60% of €10,000 is 6k, not 13,200.

Which way does this work?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120784359#Comment_120784359

There is a nice twist out of beef in either store, weanling or calf to beef. Its all about displine, attention to detail and keeping cost under control. Really interesting comment from Martin Coughlan in the FI this week. I quote

''The old saying , "if you look after the pennies the pounds will look after themselves” remains common, despite Ireland changing to the euro in 2002. This adage extols the virtues of careful financial planning and frowns on reckless spending.

Cattle farmers are traditionally a cautious and careful breed to begin with, yet I cannot get my head around the mentality that can see them fight endlessly with merchants, vets and contractors over a fiver, while at the same time accepting the level and speed of recent factory price pulls, that now run at around €150/hd, without a murmur.

It's a mentality not shared by their dairy farmer neighbours, as shown by the recent protest in Cork over falling milk prices.''

The biggest issue is if you expect to get paid for added cost in any farming system you will be disappointed. It's interesting that this week Teagasc came out staying that those dairy farmers with costs running at 35c/L need to readjust there systems, I say if your real costs are above 27/28c/L ( unless it for selected capital investments with a focus on the medium term) you really need to look at your business model. You have to know what is a cost and what is a lifestyle choice.

But going back to Martin Coughlan, beef is a game where you must always have a handle on your costs. If you decide that you really need a brand new tractor ( or even something 5-10 of it's cost) you really must do a cost benefit analysis as Larry is unlikely to cover the cost of it.

I heard a story a few weeks ago. 8-10 years ago Larry was doing an viewing/inspection of one of the new supermarket packaging plants he had added onto one of his processing plants.

On the assembly line where the stickers went on the meat packs there was labels all over the place there was a fault on the machine. He picked one up and asked what was happening. The worker shrugged and said

''it's only a sticker''

Larry said

'' every one of them is costing me 0.2 cent there is a couple of euro on the floor already get it sorted ''

Attention to detail

tanko

Christ, what a load of waffle.

trabpc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120785227#Comment_120785227

Reference cost for mower without conditioner is €2722 a meter. Say for example you intend to buy a 3 m mower then its 2722 x3 so €8166 is the reference cost. What you get is 60% of this so €4899 of a grant... In the past you had to purchase equipment outright. No lease or loan allowed. Now I'm not sure if thats still the case this time around.

Rusheseverywhere

Herdsmen requirements "treble withdrawal of any medication cattle might receive and non use of active ingredients Closamection Tetracycline, Oxytetracycline and Florfenicol in your veterinary plan. Please contact our office if you require any further clarity"

Water John

I posted on farmers storing carbon and being paid to do it here before. New research shows this has remarkable potential. If we were paid, farmers could improve their soils, store carbon and solve the climate heating problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/04/improving-farming-soil-carbon-store-global-heating-target

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805757#Comment_120805757

Yet today we have the dairy heroes going nuts over a 12% reduction in a derogation from best practice...

A DEROGATION..... it's like they don't understand the meaning of the word.

If they dealt with their addiction to the crack cocaine that is synthetic fertiliser there wouldn't be any derogation needed.

Articles like this whilst ostensibly hopeful ignore the reality that the most damaged soils will never be repaired because their owners are caught in a vicious circle of production at minimum cost.

Nobody wants to pay the real price of food though so no real hope.

Water John

I've come across a good few dairy farmers who have reduced the bag fertiliser in the last two years and still had plenty grass. Oversold as to what they needed IWT.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120806046#Comment_120806046

I see Gerry Boyle of Teasgasc fame was still pushing the nonsense about production and chem fert reduction recently🙄

Water John

Gerry will say whatever you pay him to say.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805841#Comment_120805841

Derogation from stocking rate.

It's not Derogation to spread fertiliser.

If it was Derogation to spread fertiliser I wouldn't be in derogation.

There's tillage guys spreading 200 units N /acre and not a derogation amongst them.

I'm way below most non derogation farmers in fert use.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120807503#Comment_120807503

tillage land has zero nitrogen in it, anyone that reseeded land that was in tillage for more than five years will tell you that.

Every kg of nitrogen the crop requires has to come from a bag.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810267#Comment_120810267

You're getting it now.

Because it's leached out. There's feck all life in the ground too. Life is the carbon, is the nutrients, are the gofors for the plant roots to find the nutrients. When it's not there, the nutrients go.

It has to be farmed sympathetically to life to retain the nutrients.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810320#Comment_120810320

The residual nitrogen in soils on livestock farms comes from the organic matter produced by cattle/sheep.

That's not available on tillage land, it's as simple as that.

If you ever tried to reseed long term tillage land,, you'd know what I'm talking about

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810320#Comment_120810320

Would it be fair to say that better relationships between tillage and dairy could address this issue in terms of the use of excess slurry, fym etc. and cutting down on the bagged stuff??

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810761#Comment_120810761

I have and I do.

On livestock farms that use wormers and spray herbicides and till as much as cereal growers then it's simple to think of all coming from the dung, urine. But what farmers are finding is depending on how active their biology is in soil is that badly treated organic manure is counterproductive to the biology and fertility that's already there or they've nurtured along. Conversely good stuff improves it.

It's not as simple as more is better.

Farms that have more active biology get more bang for buck from applied nutrients.

Farms that don't, good luck to lots down the stream and groundwater. These farms then keep applying more thinking it will make things better.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810845#Comment_120810845

See above. It's always nuanced.

Say my name

I'm fecking up the organic thread. So apologies.

But just think now of the damage that urea coated with a plastic polymer coating repeatedly applied to the soil can do.

Our aim should be to embrace biology. To make more of it. To do everything we can to nurture it along to store that carbon and nutrients.

Now what happens when a product is applied that's sole aim is to disrupt and destroy any biology that comes near it?

From a product that is supposed to be good for the environment (from a lab where it stopped biology getting to the urea granule) where now it's a harm to that biology in soil. What does that mean for nitrates leaking from soil? Think about it. It's till and spray, without the till and spray.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811343#Comment_120811343

No apologies necessary. You’re preaching to the converted here, off you go to the fertiliser price thread.

I have a field that was in maize for about 20 years, in grass now for about 10 years and it still can’t grow grass. I think the yaltox for maize killed everything in the soil, not just the leather jackets. Have tried fym, good stuff with a lot of earth worms in it. Even had fungi in the fym. Any suggestions?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813151#Comment_120813151

Suggestions from me are something to neutralise and buffer.

So your humic and fulvic acid. You can even get humates in a granule or pellet to apply. Then as well apply food for or add more biology.

Gypsum might be a good addition too. There's buffering in that. I even heard a lad applying zeolite from a Cork company and adding it to his organic sources. But I emailed that what I thought was the company and got no reply back so far.