organic farming

Rusheseverywhere

make sure bull under 3 years old or alot of hassle with the new TB testing regieme. Same for moving back,

Danzy

I might be renting out the slatted shed., Would it be possible to out winter dry stock in organics.

I would have a machinery shed that I could put cattle in to if a back up shed meeting is required

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639353#Comment_120639353

Out winter is better for organics.Lots of rules about out winter with regards how much area they have access to.

Rusheseverywhere

Standard outwintering rules in organic 1 LU per ha or 1 cow per 2.2 acres. Now a suckler cow 0.8 LU assume it is 1 cow to the 2 acres. Lot of fun with poaching in organics!Also Slaney etc require declaration that housed for a max of 5 months. Can see 5 or 10 years down the line that become checkable with EID tags. Ie you will scan them in and out of the shed on housing.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639959#Comment_120639959

Is that worked out across the entire farm or do they want a specific block assigned.

Water John

With the high grant rate, buildings should be considered. Even if it's just used for shelter access.

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640731#Comment_120640731

So long as cattle where you say they are if you are inspected. You cannot operate sacrifice fields. The other killer is sheds even if access have to be 6m2 per cow min and straw bedded. The housing kills it for most lads.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640731#Comment_120640731

It’s means they need access to it ….so to out winter 10 cows you need them on a 22 acres field where they have access to it all. Not a 3 acre sacrifice field with a a ring feeder.

Rusheseverywhere

Danzy see they are tighting up on outwintering. Google NITRATES EXPLANATORY HANDBOOK for Good Agricultural Practice for the Protection of Waters Regulations 2022

"The total amount of livestock manure produced on your holding must not be more than 130 kg nitrogen per hectare per year. From 1st January 2025 onwards the total amount of livestock manure produced on your holding must not be more than 100 kg nitrogen per hectare per year. All the lands used for outwintering must be part of your holding, and

• The outwintered stock must have free access at all times to the required land, and

• There must be no severe poaching,

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641208#Comment_120641208

You can use cubicles instead of a straw bedded area also.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641252#Comment_120641252

When was this limit of 100kg nitrogen per hectare per year brought in , i thought the limit was 170 kg/nitrogen/hectare/year?

Does the 100kg limit only apply to Organic farms where cattle are outwintered?

Rusheseverywhere

Not in yet 1/1/25 and everyone I assume. Protection of Waters Regulations 2022 what driving it

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641333#Comment_120641333

Just for people outwintering

roosterman71

• The outwintered stock must have free access at all times to the required land, and

• There must be no severe poaching,

I'd have assumed that both of these were mutually exclusive. It must be next to impossible to outwinter cattle and not have poaching

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641743#Comment_120641743

Dexters. They weigh 350 kg and their feet are like snowshoes after 5000 years of evolution in the rainy SW.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641252#Comment_120641252

"free access at all times to the required land"

Do they intend this to stop paddock/mob/strip grazing in Winter of deferred forage I wonder. Allowing free access to a large piece of land without control would surely lead to poaching of preferred areas I would have thought.

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641915#Comment_120641915

Even Dexters and Galloways poach was with a lad and we both went to see some and I remember they had done plenty of damage. The tractor going ut to the round feeder was nt helping things eirther. 350 times 10 still 3.5 tonnes going around on saturated land. I had some weanlings out last winter and they poached; not keeping weanlings again over the winter.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642531#Comment_120642531

I had a bull and two cows outwintered last year, worked fine, though there was a good enough cover of grass when they went into the field so no bales needed, the place would have been in a fair state if I was drawing bales to them.

Outwintering with bigger numbers would only work in hilly places. Bale grazing could definitely be an option to save drawing in the winter. It's worth looking up Cluainview farm on Facebook to show how they do it over the winter. The bales are all put in the fields before the animals get in and when the ground is more suitable. It's interesting alright, but never seen it done anywhere else.

Danzy

Can anyone recommend a good adviser to talk to about going organic, I'm based in North West Cork.

Thanks for all the info so far.

Rusheseverywhere

Danzy talk to lads in it. IMO alot of the advisors inc Teagasac knew liittle enough about it. What I can tell you is I am getting 20k a year out of it in payments and that is good. Suits me as have alot of poor land hard to farm conventionally. Good land is easier to farm organically if you have issues with rushes Organics is a nightmare. What it costs me to top and time prob costing me 5k a year.

If you cannot get full ACRES in addition to Organic I would say go with ACRES and skip the Organic

Meal is 600 to 1000 (Straights direct from farmer v nuts from Ag Coop)

Housing and straw an issue.

Stock much the same price as conventional

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/laois-farmer-holds-first-growing-organics-walk/

Maybe tip to that Danzy

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642823#Comment_120642823

What do you need to know, between all of us here we should have most of the answers. I don't think there's much incentive for dairy organics, was at a walk recently 43c/L vs 45c/L for organic milk.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643458#Comment_120643458

An old pal of mine from home is saving a packet on organic feed via Red Clover silage - says its rocket fuel for stock!!

Water John

Red clover silage is rocket fuel. It will finish stock. However it need to rotate with oats or barley. Teagasc have belatedly started employing specialist organic advisors. Some private advisors use Mary Lynch, now with IOA to run the training course. Danzy search the Agricultural Consultants Association website possibly.

endainoz

You'll learn so much from the 25 hour intro to organics course alone. I agree with the rest here though, you'd probably get an answer off someone here.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645421#Comment_120645421

Will the price of organic milk drop as quickly as conventional?

I spoke to an organic dairy processor last year and one of his selling points was that the price of organic milk would be more consistent over time and would never drop as much as conventional.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646376#Comment_120646376

It would make sense in terms of supply alright, but I wouldn't know much about it. Very few organic dairy processors around.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646504#Comment_120646504

I’ve no experience in it myself but very interested. I assume the external inputs are lower for organic and so you’re less exposed to fertiliser and feed costs.

But as I said, I don’t know the reality.

blue5000

I’ve never done the sums on organic dairy farming, but there is an interesting debate over on the dairy thread about a farm lowly stocked vs the same size farm stocked to the max.

In general the biggest problem in conversion is meeting the winter requirements for housing. The simplest solution is to halve your cattle numbers and adapt existing sheds with straw bedded areas.

We cut cow numbers savagely here, I also stopped finishing cattle as well, but I hope to go back into finishing eventually. However the price of organic beef compared to conventional would want to change a good bit before I commit to it.

Selling Forward stores around 450-500 kg is probably what I will end up at. TB would be the big issue with this though.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642823#Comment_120642823

Ring NOTS, they'd point you towards someone.