organic farming

Muckit

Anyone looking in here into organic farming?

How are things going for you? It's an area l wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about, especially the beef side of things. It might not be viable for a small farmer in the west of Ireland though, would it?

You'd have to be fully self sufficient ie growing your own grain, feeding it to your own bred stock, bedding on straw. ..

Anyone make the switch from conventional or visa versa?

Good to keep all options open

f140

with the amount of fert I spread I would never do

exercise is the antidote

What's the difference in stocking rate towards conventional farming I wonder?
I herd Glenisk are mad looking for people to get into organic milk too!

Mad4simmental

Don't know much about it to be honist. I would have an interest like yourself. I had a good Chat with one of the nabougers a few months ago. He was one of the biggest sheep farmers in Ireland about five years ago. I would consider him a very good farmer. He was saying he was finding it unbelavible hard to get his lambs to killing condition. I'd love the idea of going down this road with sucklers but I'd say it would be just to hard to make a buck. Anyone know what price per kg cattel are making organic?

Mad4simmental

I should have said he changed from normal farming practices to organic a few years ago.

micraX

Look at last weeks ear to the ground on RTÉplayer

hugo29

Muckit wrote: »

Anyone looking in here into organic farming?

How are things going for you? It's an area l wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about, especially the beef side of things. It might not be viable for a small farmer in the west of Ireland though, would it?

You'd have to be fully self sufficient ie growing your own grain, feeding it to your own bred stock, bedding on straw. ..

Anyone make the switch from conventional or visa versa?

Good to keep all options open

Muckit

do you think its a viable option, would be interested to hear what info you find out, as you say keep the options open,
wonder how is it regulated and is one open to more inspections, paperwork etc

Farrell

hugo29 wrote: »

Muckit

do you think its a viable option, would be interested to hear what info you find out, as you say keep the options open,
wonder how is it regulated and is one open to more inspections, paperwork etc

Not in the organic, but know a few that are.
Was quoted:
Organic AAX weanlings were making more at Organic Autumn Sales than some farmers got with their CHX weanlings.
I didn't see either animals

rancher

micraX wrote: »

Look at last weeks ear to the ground on RTÉplayer

That was Pat Lalor, he really has made a success of organic farming, grows clover for silage to fix nitrogen in the soil, turns his farmyard manure to improve the quality/ kill weed seeds and now he's exporting his own porridge oats,
He also hosts farm visits as well

Neddyusa

rancher wrote: »

That was Pat Lalor, he really has made a success of organic farming, grows clover for silage to fix nitrogen in the soil, turns his farmyard manure to improve the quality/ kill weed seeds and now he's exporting his own porridge oats,
He also hosts farm visits as well

He also features in this video of several successful organic farmers around the country...well worth a look for anyone interested.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=M5SsKrTUmRQ

Markcheese

There's usually a few farm walks if your into that , there 's hobby organic farmers,throw a few sheep or rough cattle on a hill organic farmers and then there are the serious guys that could make a go of any farming enterprise...
if you've got good management skills and dont rely on the meal bag and can grow clover then go for it ...
In dairying it's all about market .., glenisk are mad looking for winter milk,hard to make money on that and what do you do in summer. None of the
co-ops ever got in on it, so very little
scale

Justjens

Have a calf to beef enterprise that has been certified 18 years, has it's ups and downs, more paper work, more inspections but the plus side there is a little less work;) except when it comes to weed control:(

Have straw bedded slatted sheds, but fortunate enough to have easy access to straw and the fym is my fertiliser, plus the slurry. Always dig up the straw bed, and heap at the back of the shed at the end of each winter, heats nicely and rots down a good bit which means it breaks up on spreading.

Most are finished off grass, lucky to have a dry farm, and for the few finished during the winter I just have to bite the bullet and buy expensive meal.

Best to finish AA or HE, had difficulties with the LM. Best price last summer was €5.50/kg, and they have to be under 30mths, Quality Beef Assured too.

The OFS pays reasonably well, and I save by not having to spread fertiliser. You need a minimum stocking density of 0.5 lu/ha, I'm managing about 1.1 lu.

Any questions pm me, I don't want to give away too much information.....

goosey5

Muckit wrote: »

Anyone looking in here into organic farming?

How are things going for you? It's an area l wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about, especially the beef side of things. It might not be viable for a small farmer in the west of Ireland though, would it?

You'd have to be fully self sufficient ie growing your own grain, feeding it to your own bred stock, bedding on straw. ..

Anyone make the switch from conventional or visa versa?

Good to keep all options open

I made the switch in 2009! And havn't looked bac ! I grow my own wheat in a part of the country were extremly little tilage is done ! Had 7 acres of wheat in las year got 18 ton off it , sold 10.5 ton for €3800 i keep 30 sucklers with charolais bull sold year old bulls 1200 , beef price at mo is 4.95 flat for o r u grades ! And no probs gettin dem into da factory. They are now doing an organic veal at 8 months €3kg live weight

bogman_bass

biggest issue is the 2 year conversion period. You get all the disadvantages of organic with none of the bonuses

conor t

goosey5 wrote: »

I made the switch in 2009! And havn't looked bac ! I grow my own wheat in a part of the country were extremly little tilage is done ! Had 7 acres of wheat in las year got 18 ton off it , sold 10.5 ton for €3800 i keep 30 sucklers with charolais bull sold year old bulls 1200 , beef price at mo is 4.95 flat for o r u grades ! And no probs gettin dem into da factory. They are now doing an organic veal at 8 months €3kg live weight

did you grow wheat in 2012,if so how did it go? do you base variety selection all around septoria resistance? any weed problems?

goosey5

conor t wrote: »

did you grow wheat in 2012,if so how did it go? do you base variety selection all around septoria resistance? any weed problems?

Grew spring barley in 12 , cause the combine man said oct 11 was to wet to plant ! Barley done 2 ton /ac in 12 but as with everyone's quality not great , harvest 11 done 2.5/ac of wheat , tested this years wheat 70 bush @16mo ! i rotate fields , i pick a field or 2 to reseed and plant wheat first and try to get wheat cut in aug and reseed as soon as pos ! Wheat grown on ley ground is easy to grow and nearly weed free , a key trick is to sow heavy 15/16st ac , i also get organic hen manure and plough it down 6-8 ton /ac and in the spring 3000gals / ac of cattle slurry thats all it needs !

goosey5

Had a small patch of septoria in 11 but 13 clean using oakley seed and reusing for seed !

goosey5

bogman_bass wrote: »

biggest issue is the 2 year conversion period. You get all the disadvantages of organic with none of the bonuses

Its not that bad , u would do nothing in farming if ya always needed a fast euro! 212€ /ha is good bonus for those years !

goosey5

Organic cattle sale drumshanbo mart tomorrow

INOX

Is straw bedding the only housing acceptable, or could cubicles be used for organic stock? Straw would work out expensive round here.

INOX

Is straw bedding the only housing acceptable, or could cubicles be used for organic stock? Straw would work out expensive round here.

Zr105

INOX wrote: »

Is straw bedding the only housing acceptable, or could cubicles be used for organic stock? Straw would work out expensive round here.

Main reason that straw is preffered is purely that its good organic fertilizer/ organic matter to build up the soils!


Was on a walk in an organic farm last year and the thing that stood to it was massive grass management. All feilds that could be done were reseeded every 4-5 years and the rest over seeded.
The reseeding was done by ploughing then sowing a crop of corn(barley or oats i think) then over sown with grass. The grass took care of the weeds as much as possible, then the grain was cut early and crimped into pit to provide the "meal" for cattle and the grass and straw was mowed and baled for silage.

The feilds were then oversowed with a lower rate of grass and red clover.
The red clover needed serious management tho as it needs to be grazed tight to get the most out of it but if the root gets any damage it's gone..

The red clover awards were also baled for silage, i cant remember the exact figure but i know it was light cuts of super quality and the protein was through the roof thanks to the protein, it left it that very little meal would be needed along side the silage to finish cattle

Markcheese

INOX wrote: »

Is straw bedding the only housing acceptable, or could cubicles be used for organic stock? Straw would work out expensive round here.

You can use cubicles, you need to have more cubicles than cows, and they have to be plenty big enough for them with lunge room ect ...and have a certain amount feeding and standing space ect ...

BattyJoe

Hi Muckit,

did you ever do anymore about that organic?

im from west of Ireland too, and thinking about getting into it.

k mac

Anything had a look at this new scheme or any opinions on it. I see the closing date is the end of May.

blue5000

goosey5 wrote: »

I made the switch in 2009! And havn't looked bac ! I grow my own wheat in a part of the country were extremly little tilage is done ! Had 7 acres of wheat in las year got 18 ton off it , sold 10.5 ton for €3800 i keep 30 sucklers with charolais bull sold year old bulls 1200 , beef price at mo is 4.95 flat for o r u grades ! And no probs gettin dem into da factory. They are now doing an organic veal at 8 months €3kg live weight

Goosey are you still on here, what was organic beef price like this spring?

trabpc

Open again today for one month. Any takers?

eoinmk2

seriously considering it, extra payments are a big incentive. weary about some of the extra paper work/inspections involved though.

any already organic farmers on here have any comments on it?

Nettleman

eoinmk2 wrote: »

seriously considering it, extra payments are a big incentive. weary about some of the extra paper work/inspections involved though.

any already organic farmers on here have any comments on it?

higher payment is one thing but need to pitch this against extra costs. like straw, organic meal, FYM storage, certification body annual fee. Can you farm your farm without fertiliser or sprays? I wonder could organic farmers be missing a trick here if theres future compensation for highly stocked conventional farmers to reduce emissions and organic already not using fert or sprays. theres is a representative association speaking for organic farmers at the moment, but no website and probably little or no financial backing to have an impact

kelslat

Lads are ye allowed vaccinate cows for lepto etc.. And is it true that you get a reduced payment for organic if you are in glas scheme.

Nettleman

kelslat wrote: »

Lads are ye allowed vaccinate cows for lepto etc.. And is it true that you get a reduced payment for organic if you are in glas scheme.

If you have lepto on your herd health plan, and theres a history of it at some point in the plan to justify a vacination programme, then yes, its allowed. Each Glas action specifies if theres a reduction in the organic payment or not - wild bird in glas means you dont get the organic payment for that land. the Glas specification doc on DAFM website says what hits your organic money and what doesnt-

trabpc

Ah. So if in Glas not all organic payments will be eligible?

ganmo

My understanding is as one of the cornerstones of the organic certification is animal welfare once you can make the case that animal welfare will be impacted negatively you can use what you like(except gm)

kelslat

If a group of animals get sick for one reason or another and you give them antibiotics I believe they don't qualify as organic, so how would this affect payment if you go below your minimum stocking levels for the scheme?

Mehaffey1

Worked on an organic dairy farm in NZ. Looking back the farm produced very well but the mastitis would cripple you mentally if it takes hold. Had 26 out of 300 cows on Apple cider vinegar and cell count at 343,000. Where im working now has all cows clear except one lame on penicillin out of 30. Also, knowing a bit more than I did back then I don't think I'd be happy not being able to treat lames but it's all about the level of management as all things are really.

barnaman

Now a lad went into Organics and regreting it. Very expensive nearly €600 a tonne for meal. No double payment on GLAS or Organics its one or the other. Cattle cannot get dosed with antibiotics and get sold as organic and over the life of a beast quite a few need an antibiotic; withdrawal periods doubled for medicines or tribled and the real killer is according to him need to book cattle in months in advance to factory. Might some but not easy. Also Organic hay is killing him cannot get it easily and he has none saved.

3611

Hi All, long time reader, first post!

I joined organic this year as far as I am aware if an animal gets more than two courses of antibiotics in a calendar year they cannot be slaughtered as organic. Withdrawal period is doubled also.

Panch18

3611 wrote: »

Hi All, long time reader, first post!

I joined organic this year as far as I am aware if an animal gets more than two courses of antibiotics in a calendar year they cannot be slaughtered as organic. Withdrawal period is doubled also.

Welcome on board

Tell us a bit more about The pros and cons of organics

3611

I am very lowly stocked as just getting going with raw land which had been rented for years. I need to build up stock numbers, but also shed space and machinery. I am hoping the organic grant will be an additional payment which will help towards this. Don't want to borrow too much as already fairly heavily committed off farm!

The organic tams seems great for equipment purchases, I hope dung will go a long way towards substituting for p&k. Also more likely to get dairy sludge if organic. I also intend to look at red clover as a protein source. I'm told getting your head around carrying less stock for most guys is the hardest part, but if selling for a premium hopefully evens this out.

Scouring young stock will probably be my biggest issue as I don't want to go down the breeding route, due to real job commitments and time.

Big plans just have to figure out how to fund it all!!

trabpc

My understanding is that if your not rearing your own stock but buying stock in each yr, you must buy organic stock. You cannot go to your normal mart and source your stock. So may not suit summer grazers. You options/sources to purchase these stock may be limited and you may pay more for them. Scheme only really suits those with sucklers and bedding on dung during winter thus having the waste to spread. Getting waste milk product from factories to supplement dung may not be easy. Alot want it now so you may have long wait if lucky.
Info from 2 farmers i know in the scheme.

Tomjim

I,m a commercial farmer currently in GLAS.


If I was to turn organic
How much extra in an organic payment would I receive taking into consideration my Glas payment

What is the average stocking rate for an organic farm

tractorporn

Tomjim wrote:

If I was to turn organic How much extra in an organic payment would I receive taking into consideration my Glas payment

You won't get an organic payment on top of your glas payment. The organic licence will give priority access to GLAS but for the land you have in GLAS you will forgo the organic payment. So if you have 10Ha in low input pp you will get 314 for that and the rest of your land you can claim an organic payment. For your 2 year conversion period it's 220/Ha and then the payment for the remaining 3 years is 170/Ha

eoinmk2

anyone know if or when the next tranche of this scheme is opening?

The part time boy

Any organic farmer here I could ask a few quistions?

tractorporn

The part time boy wrote:

Any organic farmer here I could ask a few quistions?

Pm me if you want I'll try my best to answer any questions

orchard farm

yea fire away!!

3611

Ask away. Pm if you like

kowtow

I didn't realise we had so many organic farmers around, that's a hidden fount of knowledge if ever there was one!

I hope they don't hand out all the advice by PM, I'd love to hear what they are all up to and the challenges of it. Every organic thread I ever read seems to be an enquiry about whether the grants are big enough to be worth the hassle of converting which is hardly the point!

Bring it on!

3611

kowtow wrote: »

I didn't realise we had so many organic farmers around, that's a hidden fount of knowledge if ever there was one!

I hope they don't hand out all the advice by PM, I'd love to hear what they are all up to and the challenges of it. Every organic thread I ever read seems to be an enquiry about whether the grants are big enough to be worth the hassle of converting which is hardly the point!
Bring it on!

Ask away I will be convert in May. Payment is only one aspect of it. Inputs are a lot less and despite what everyone says I actually have grass in April!

orchard farm

Same as that will be fully organic in may after 2 year conversion,im a young farmer living in north west where land is marginal with some good plots here and there,majority of farmers here are organic farming in all but name as its hard to stock much higher than min 0.5 lu/ha anyways with 6 month winters etc So not much change for me if anything i had to increase stock,bit more cleaning out of sheds and cant lick rushes apart from that the organic payment helps keep me farming full time and give me more interest in farming the land as opposed to just running 3 and 4 sucklers on rough hills of 20 acres plus also cant rely on 18-6-12 short tern fix so more interested in slowly increasing fertility of soil and getting ph right.Basically farming in harmony with nature as always has been done here anyway and hopefully add value to the excelent quality weanings that are produced in this area.The way i see it it was either try farm the land to its natural advantages or else give up plant trees and get a day job,and us farmers hate to give in:-)Only 1800 organic farmers in ireland is shocking since were such a green isle,but farmers are slow to change to their own detriment and to the advantage of fertilizer and chemical companys

kowtow

When I look at organic milking herds in the UK doing 6 or 7k litres it strikes me that it is an option at least for irish farms.

What are the major constraints... on stocking rate for example particularly if like many dairy farmers the milking platform is heavily stocked but silage etc grown on outfarm.

I know organic feed is a problem presumably in an ideal world grown on farm?

How do people manage the transition from intensive rotational grass to organic? And What about weed control?