organic farming

Rusheseverywhere

Should be full organic. With anything in calf or cow all kinda irrlevant as they would be organic for breeding purposes. ie their prodigy is full organic. No organic market for cull cows when they ultimatley go so sell away. Organic market is so so I sold high five star in calf good heifers and got same price as ordinary, same for weanlings I sold. Cutting down cows and seems everyone is. Advise you to put them on Done Deal.

Water John

Organic hens get special music composition:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/new-zealand-orchestra-music-chickens-chook-symphony

roosterman71

See the EU on about a slump in organic sales across the board, and organic farmers selling products at the same prices as conventional. Can't say I'm surprised.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/eu-facing-worrying-drop-in-demand-for-organic-sales/

_Brian

In many ways the organic payments are an extension of the other direct payments. Just a tool to have farmers produce to tighter regulations while taking whatever price the processors are willing to give. It’s a progression of the idea that farmers are becoming nothing but a below cost source of primary goods to support the processors where the real employment numbers are.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121277922#Comment_121277922

Its a bit of a simplistic assessment in that conventional beef and lamb sales have also contracted significantly in that time across the EU and UK. Current Milk Price speaks too to such trends. Indeed in the latter lamb consumption is now barely half of what it was just 15 years ago. At least Organics is not subject to increasing costs in inputs like Chem fert etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/24/uk-meat-consumption-lowest-level-since-record-began-data-reveal#:~:text=That%20was%20down%20from%20976g,11%25%20in%20the%20past%20decade.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279870#Comment_121279870

It might not have fertilizer costs but lots of other farming costs have escalated in recent years including the cost of living.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279870#Comment_121279870

1 15% Organic sheep nut last Winter was €23.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279936#Comment_121279936

No doubt thats a cost - mostly related to how far this country is behind in developing the sector compared to others in terms of scaling up organic feed grain, hay etc. production from a very low base, compared to a sudden influx over the last year of livestock entrants on the back of the new scheme. I suspect it will balance itself out in the years to come, plus folk gradually producing more of their own feed requirements

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279988#Comment_121279988

On many farms there will never be an ability to produce their own feed due to the farm make up or terrain type.

I don't think the market is a surprise either tbh. One of the first things we were told on the course was that if anyone was expecting to make their fortune from organic beef or lamb they were going to be disappointed. During the last General Election my second least favourite politician was pushing organic and admitting in the same sitting the local market in that town was failing.

But farmers shouldn't have a problem with any of that once the scheme money ends up in their account. That's the bottom line, this is a paper exercise to say Ireland has the "acceptable" % of organic farmers for the EU. If it suits a farm, join with open eyes, not a head in the clouds like that politician.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280051#Comment_121280051

The loss of self sufficiency and production imbalances(Headage in particular )that came of the old CAP from the late 70's is a damaging legacy that feeds into this issue. B4 then even small farms on the West coast produced much of their own feed via local breeds of oats, barley etc. All lost now and farming in this country is much the poorer for it when u look at the averge earnings of conventional beef and sheep farmers currently. The most succesfull in this sector now are doing it for themselves in terms of marketing etc. outside of the group think that infects so much of the conventional farming orgs

Water John

Producing self grown feed requires a rotation. It will be an approach most farmers haven't done in their lifetime. The simplest rotation, is 20 acres, 10 acres red clover, 10 acres oats/barley and flip them every three years.

The other option is a barley/pea or bean mix, crimp it. It is a couple of years ago but on a farm visit, they were producing that for €157/ton. All it needed was minerals.

Silverdream

Long gone are the days when you got a the true value for your produce., it's all about the cheque in the post, Organics suits a system that goes down the line of zero inputs and take whatever you can get for the few stock that can forage for themselves.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280210#Comment_121280210

You'd need your own small combine for that job too. And the time to go the second it's fit. With challenging weather conditions in the west of Ireland, contractors won't be got with suitable combines in the areas and off farm jobs of people that need to be flexible to allow to go the second it's ready.

Even in the favourable tillage areas with full time operators. Some have over stretched themselves basing their machinery and labour on the perfect year weather wise. When the disastrous year strikes there's no way they can reach it all.

For anyone in the west especially at that craic you'd need your own combine. Even for the 10 or 20 acres.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280360#Comment_121280360

Not with wholecrop which I am currently doing with a small oat acerage I have set this last few years. Indeed wholecropping is a core principle for organic and regenerative farming in many cases

Water John

That's why the crimping or wholecrop would be a better option. I fully understand the problem of combining a crop of oats.

..

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280389#Comment_121280389

You still have to combine to crimp. Combining is the issue. You could possibly do a forage crop but the problem is too much straw in the silage.

I have done all of that crimping was never an option as no tillage man is going to come to combine 5 acres of grain. You might get him for ten acres but you be last on the list. Crimping might save you but it would depend on how much winter grain he had to do or if he was involved in silage harvesting as well.

I did peas and barley in reseeding you risk is you will smother the grass if you do it as a forage crop. Only the hybrids can survive in such a crop in an year with very good growing conditions. Ya you could use a tine harrow to incorporate more grass seed into the ley the following year.

But forage silage has too much straw unless you have a headset on the combine to only take 8-10'' of straw with it. Then unless you put it into a pit of silage you will not have enough moisture to preserve it.

Red clover and grass is only a three year crop and even by the third year the crop will be poor. Tilling will cost 2-300/ acre any year you don't whether it's grass, clover or grain. Ideally with organics you most plough and that is another problem on poorer quality land.

Water John

You have to keep the seeding rate down on barley/peas, 50 kg per acre.

kollegeknight

Hoping to join next year.

have low enough stocking rate at about .5Lu/ HA and fertiliser and silage killing me price wise.

will know this year how many bales I need with current stocking rate.

what catches me is the land is so wet, it’s hard to not house for 6months.

the extra few Bob might help me improve the farm.

currentlt at €13k farm payments including acres and mam gets between €10k-€12k a year so nothing to play with.

Water John

Watch that some of your Acres actions may limit the Organic payment. Each case is different. Another €5/6K from organic would be a big help to you.

Might be worth reducing stock. For example, just calve the 7 cows and sell the weanlings.

I use mob grazing, which is a 42 day rotation. This gives a matt of fodder under the cattle. They walk in a third of it but it would possibly help on wet land.

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281712#Comment_121281712

That’s great advice, I’ve asked my advisor to maximise payments and that I’m hoping for organic, I’ll just remind about the crossover of payments.

im in a cp zone and it’s looking like the €7k with just the field scoring. But I must watch the topups.

massey 265

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284944#Comment_121284944

Good pointers there from water john.very important to read up on the specs when joining acres and organics,have ur homework done re double funding .remember its you that will suffer the financial concequences if mistakes are made .read the spec and then read it again.do not leave everything to your advisor.

Water John

I'm not good on T & Cs, just pass on anything my advisors mention, usually.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281601#Comment_121281601

Have you straw bedded sheds?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284944#Comment_121284944

That 7k will be obliterated with organics. You'll still paid, but at a far lower rate and if you get below 8 out of 10 you get zero. It's very harsh to be fair.

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285667#Comment_121285667

Slatted sheds with cubicles. can be modified to suit.

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285884#Comment_121285884

thanks for that,

Have you a link for those T&Cs?

my advisor was saying it made sense to join in conjunction as I’d get both.

scores are anything from 4-8 if I remember correctly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286443#Comment_121286443

Look into it but I'm pretty sure Enda is correct, if you're in Organics you must score 8+

massey 265

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286443#Comment_121286443

Keep away from area based actions in acres if ur joining organics scheme.Both can work together if u choose linear options e.g.30 hectare farm, acres options grass margin 2500 mrs,riparian strip 2000 mtrs ,new hedge row 400 mtrs .total acres payment 7300 approx.Deduction for double funding off organic payment is grass margin 2mtr wide×2500 =5000 mtrs,riparian strip 2000 mtrs ×1.5 mtrs wide=3000 mtrs ,total 8000 mtrs which is .8 of a hectare so deduction of organic payment will be ,8 ×300=240 eu.So organic payment will be 30 ha ×300 =9000 +top up of 2k= 11000 -240=10760.total organic payment 10760 plus acres 7300 =18060.

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286798#Comment_121286798

I have to go area based with being in the CP zone for the hen harrier.