organic farming

Castlekeeper

Industrial milk is dropping like a stone, heading towards the low 30s, it'll be interesting to see if organic holds.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646608#Comment_120646608

As already mentioned, cubicles is the answer.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641252#Comment_120641252

That would seem to be trying to eliminate outwinering except for those on the Burren or similar.

It certainly won't suit winter crops, deferred grazing, or the mob grazing/ holistic management approaches.

BTW, on stocking rates 1 ha = 2.47 acres, not 2.2 as mentioned a few times.

releasevalve

Good idea if thinking about it is to do the organic principles course can ask plenty questions and visit two farms. You do a farm business plan as a project ( nothing major) gets you thinking about all sides of it costs profits numbers farm modifications. As they say biggest conversions is in your head.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646839#Comment_120646839

I know a organic dairy farmer and he uses cubicles for the cows. I recently read that there is a predicted shortage of straw already for 2023.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/grain-and-straw-shortages-must-be-tackled-icsa-764583

Water John

Organic dairying is paying a fairly consistent price. It is not really connected to the conventional market.

Greengold Agri Services in Macroom I think would cover cork North West. But it's mainly up to each farming thinking of going into organics to do most of their own research. Lots of farm walks right through the summer, IOA, Organic Trust and Teagasc each hold them.

Rusheseverywhere

Below per the OT "

"Cubicles are permitted. They must be bedded with a bedding material. Mats can be used but additional bedding must be applied on top.

Cubicles must be of optimum size for the animals on the holding with regard to welfare. At least 3m2 of accessible/available floor area per individual animal must be allowed for dairy cows and larger animals, with lesser areas for smaller animals; cubicles with dimensions of 2.62m2 can be permitted provided the overall solid-bedded area is compliant with the Organic Food and Farming Standards in Ireland e.g. a 600 kg animal would require an overall solid-bedded area of 3m2, therefore, where cubicles less than 3m2 are used, an additional solid-bedded area must be made available to the animals"

So cubicles are not really the answer unless massive as you still need 3m2 floor space somewhere in the shed. In fact larger suckler cows require more space. Below again from the OT on shed space

Cattle Over 350 5 with a minimum of 1m2 per 100Kg

so 800 kg cow needs 8m2 of solid bedded area and a 350kg weanling as you see need 5

893bet

If you a few down to arguing a cow is 700 kg vs 800 then you are in a good place

Water John

Hadn't ever heard of more than 6 sq m per large animal, half of which to be bedded.

Rusheseverywhere

One lad I know had issues on an inspection, he had large 900kg SI/CH cross cows They measured shed and said tight. Must ask again he was not given a penalty but was some written comment. He cut down anyway on cows but must ask him more.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648319#Comment_120648319

900 kgs is a huge cow, did they weigh the cows?

Water John

Accept your point. My learning was normally 5 sq m for a fully grown animal and up to 6 sq m for a larger animal. Some body was being very officious.

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648334#Comment_120648334

The lad used the phrase a "ringing ...." alot that evening.

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648328#Comment_120648328

No but they were massive and anyone could tell. Would still be alot of 800kg plus cows in the suckler game. My own heaviest was 1050 kg Ch cow. Cut down most mine now prob 700kg and few 800kg left.

Castlekeeper

You'd need extra cubicles alright to satisfy the total bed space requirement, but their still the easiest option for dairy cows.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648334#Comment_120648334

The accepted size of area for cows is 6m2 doesn't matter whether its a 350 kg Dexter or a 900 kg LIMX cow. I can guess the German fella that was out inspecting and he is wrong.

I'm terms of cubicles the cubicle can be 3m2 and the remaining 3m can be made up of scraped passageway or slatted area on the shed. The min size a cubicle can be is actually 2.62m2 but that is actually far to complicated to explain via text. The only thing to remember is that the cubicle still needs to be bedded with something.

To the man looking for an advisor in the North West try either Martin Mulvihill in Moyvane or Tony Murphy in Lissarda.

Silverdream

6m2 for a suckler cow isn't much. I had 22 Cows on slats/straw bedding that had access to 4 bays of slats and 5 bays of solid concrete floor bedded. Needless to say the spent all there time when they weren't eating out on the bedding. Next impossible to keep dry straw under them,

I used 18 bales of straw over 12 weeks (and that was skimping). I have 12 inch bed of straw and dung to clear out now which will be a mini digger job some Saturday, problem is its not rotted and I'm not so keen on the idea of throwing it out on the land. I have no storage for the dung, if I wanted to rot it down I can make a heap outside but it needs to be covered underneath and on top so that's a non runner.

Next winter is going to be tougher as the rules for outwintering have been tightened up, so having them in a sarcrafical field won't work anymore either.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652039#Comment_120652039

Won't need it covered this time of year as long as it can leech into the ground and that it's spread before the closed period next winter.

Water John

A slope on the floor really helps keep the bedding dry.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642531#Comment_120642531

You need a big area of rough ground, preferably with the rock not too far down. Unfortunately for me I've plenty of that. You can only do one year in the same place, it needs to be left recover the next year or sheep fed there instead.

The tractor going out does make tracks but a bit of planning - ie starting at the farthest point/working closer to the gate, and never putting a second bale on the same lump does minimize the damage.

It's not perfect anywhere but the Burren (where I aint) but it can work almost anywhere with small numbers.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652039#Comment_120652039

Try woodchip under the straw. Is there room to stack it in the shed? If not you’re allowed stack it outside on a field outside the closed period. Have a heap in a shed here turned 6 times and it’s nearly compost now.

Silverdream

I was told woodchip isn't great for land as it takes years to breakdown fully, but then again someone will always have a reason why you shouldn't do something!

I have room in the shed for now, I might try to turn it. It just seems that there isn't enough dung in the bedding. There's layers of straw through it.

Another thing I have discovered is the Wheaten straw doesn't break down as easily as the Barley straw, and the Wheaten doesn't soak up as good either.

I'm thinking of mixing hydrated lime in to speed up the break down process. I'd love to have nice crumble manure to spread instead of lumps of straw

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656979#Comment_120656979

I have strawy sheep dung and turn it about once a fortnight and it turns mouldy after 5 or six turns

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656979#Comment_120656979

Put some topsoil on it before you stack it. You don't need a lot. Best place to get the topsoil is under mature beech or oak trees. Some urea might be better than lime, the protein feeds the bugs, but if you're organic you can't use urea.

blue5000

Couple of pics, this stuff has wood chip and wheat straw in it, the real sharp eyed fookers here might spot a bit of net wrap as well.

Silverdream

Looks good. I'd say the heaping it up helped it. How much further will you bring it before spreading, would it be good enough in the current state?

Water John

Making compost, don't go over 1.5 m high as it will overheat.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663806#Comment_120663806

I'll probably turn it once more then draw it out the field next week. It's still heating. Will probably spread it in September, I need to give it time to break down the wood.

Agreed WJ about the stack height, a long low heap is better. But a hot heap kills weed seeds and pathogens. When I tip it in the field it will be about 3 feet high and 8 feet wide.

Water John

Dail was suspended twice yesterday because Minister Hackett referred to Michael Collins TD as an organic farmer. Seems he was upset.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0531/1386778-dail-row/

rounders

Guessing overheating it would kill good bacteria?