SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

bk

MOD: There is a lot of off topic talk about rural broadband on this thread, so I've split off some of the posts so it can continue to be talked about here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057153058, please keep this thread for discussion specific to the ESB rollout only please. Thanks

Irish Steve

Haven't read all the recent posts, but I had a very interesting call yesterday.

Eircom are DESPERATE to get people back to their services, and I had yet another long call from one of their sales reps, trying to persuade me to move back to them from my present provider and Sky.

During an interesting conversation, it was mentioned that "Eircom are negotiating with ESB to be able to use their fibre service". I'm not convinced that wasn't just sales B$, he was desperate to try and get me to go with them, and I think they would have promised almost anything to get me to move over.

I didn't go into that in much depth, because I'm not sure that it would be relevant here, we're already able to get Efibre locally, my reservation is that we are going to be at the end of the line range wise, so the speeds may not be that good, and if Evision is added to the package, with multiroom, that's going to take a big bite out of the overall speed available, and the other deal breaker is that we get up to 1 hour per call free to the UK with our present provider, and as we have family in the UK, that's a significant saving, being that Eircom would be nearly €5 per hour for a UK call, so a real deal breaker for me.

It's still all a joke, when are our politicians going to get wise to the requirement to have a decent broadband package that has good upload speeds as well as good download speeds. The whole focus of broadband at the moment is on being able to provide "entertainment" level services, and anything that might actually allow people to work sensibly from home, or provide a web presence or acceptable level of support from their business premises, is only a wet dream, due to the appallingly bad upload speeds that are on offer! "the Cloud" is exactly what that implies, vapourware, long on promises and very short on real reliability and security, which leaves many companies with very few options other than to find some way to outsource much of their service provision, and that can be a very fraught situation, and moving provider is not the simple and easy task that some would say it is.

Then again, most of the state services expect us to have all our interactions with them through info@whoever.ie, so what does that tell us about the degree to which real computing has penetrated the government services!

football_lover

murphaph wrote: »

Your definition of a one-off house is at odds with the accepted definition used by everyone else so it's very hard to debate the issue with you to be honest. In any case, the vast vast majority of homes in rural Ireland do not belong to farmers or those in allied sectors, far too many belong to people who work in urban centres but want to live 200m from the next house. That's a lifestyle choice that brings with it poorer availability of utilities.

People have lived in rural Ireland for many generations and did not just move out of the cities to there.

Yes there are people who have moved out there but that does not change the fact there are communities that have been there for centuries.

I am sorry to shock you but farms and the people who run them are based in the countryside not Dublin 4/6.

And the supporting structure around them are in some cases rural or small towns based.

The few billion that would be spent developing a rural fiber optics system not a national system would be monies well invested.

We either stick our heads in the sand and watch Ireland argi-sector disappear to other nations or we literally grab the bull by the horns.

We either sit and do nothing or we do something. I find it funny that motorways which where built in this country costing billions but a fiber optics system that would cost the same is considered too expensive.

We should be building small manufacturing industries around our agriculture instead of people worrying about one of builds we are what we are.

Germany's Mittelstand is what we in Ireland should be aspiring to only it could be food based.

sparky63

Another network from another provider:mad:. What this country needs is some sort of joint venture between the three network operators, Eircom, UPC and ESB to give every household, high speed broadband. Not another provider like UPC which will compete in towns and cities. Interesting to note Eircom extended invitations to all the providers to come together for talks to try and achieve this. Not one provider responded:(

Mr. G

Sounds awful but I'm not surprised.

bk

sparky63 wrote: »

Another network from another provider:mad:. What this country needs is some sort of joint venture between the three network operators, Eircom, UPC and ESB to give every household, high speed broadband. Not another provider like UPC which will compete in towns and cities. Interesting to note Eircom extended invitations to all the providers to come together for talks to try and achieve this. Not one provider responded:(

I'm sorry, but this is absolute rubbish. The ESB and UPC were absolutely right not to respond.

Eircom would love to get together with the ESB and UPC to create a Oligarchy where they all agree to divide up the market and not to compete directly and keep prices high!

Remember this is Eircom who just a year ago made proposals to Comreg that they should be allowed to charge cheaper prices in areas served by UPC and more expensive prices where they faced no competition. In other words charging more expensive prices to rural Ireland!

Eircom increasing the number of homes they are rolling out VDSL to from 1 million to 1.4 million (in particular in rural areas) is a direct response to the ESB FTTH network.

From what I've been told it is a "cut them off at the pass" manoeuvre before the ESB even arrives. So even the possibility of increased competition from the ESB has already forced Eircom to be more competitive.

Don't kid yourself, the only reason Eircom is doing 70mb/s VDSL and soon vectoring is because of intense competition from UPC and soon from the ESB.

The ESB FTTH network bringing extra competition to the Irish market is the best thing that has happened since UPC arrived on the market. It will ensure we have a high quality network and real competition that will keep Eircom on their feet and competitive.

sparky63

The ESB was not a provider at the time, and i doubt it extended to UPC. The offer was to the telecoms providers, should have stated that. The idea was in response to the NBP. As from the lack of participants, Eircom went alone with the fibre project. In relation to increased competition, yes why wouldn't any company up the stakes and become more competitive. As for vectoring and kidding myself, they moved from 56k to ISDN and DSL with no competition from UPC or the ESB, its the next step in being able to provide higher speeds and used widely by similar providers in Europe. The higher the speed, the more products can be offered. My argument is that the introduction of the ESB into the broadband market while it will increase competition and the prospect of lower prices to the consumer, its looking like only benefiting areas that will be served by fibre already. My comment as to the joint venture of the three providers was in the hope that the expectation of providing areas that are cost prohibitive with providing fibre can be overcome.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/esb-broadband-wont-improve-rural-experience-much-29983827.html

bk

sparky63 wrote: »

As for vectoring and kidding myself, they moved from 56k to ISDN and DSL with no competition from UPC or the ESB, its the next step in being able to provide higher speeds and used widely by similar providers in Europe.

Again, what more revisionist nonsense.

I was there for all of these as part of Ireland Off Line, I sat in front of the CEO of Eircom and The Minister of Communications at the time. Eircom had to be dragged kicking and screaming to rollout broadband.

Eircom had no interest at all in rolling out affordable consumer broadband, they were far happier making a fortune on crappy per minute dial up costs.

It was the members of Ireland Off Line who convinced the Minister of Communications that he did have the legal power to require Eircom introduce a FRIACO (Flat rate dial-up product) product, which he did. Within one month of Eircom (and Esat/BT) introducing FRIACO, Eircom then responded by cutting the price of Broadband in half and announcing the big rollout of Broadband.

I can assure you that before this, Eircom had no plans on doing extensive consumer broadband. It was being forced to do FRIACO that convinced them it would be preferable to do Broadband then FRIACO as FRIACO removed the massive per minute dial up bills.

Also you are also wrong about cable broadband, it was available from NTL Ireland even back then.

sparky63 wrote: »

My comment as to the joint venture of the three providers was in the hope that the expectation of providing areas that are cost prohibitive with providing fibre can be overcome.

And again I'm saying any joint venture was pure nonsense on Eircom's part.

How exactly would a joint venture make any difference to rolling out broadband to rural Ireland?

Eircom has a larger fibre network then any company in Ireland. UPC would be no help as they are only in urban areas. And what Eircom expected the ESB to let Eircom use their electricity poles for free!

All pure nonsense, everyone knew that at best, this was just another stalling tactic by Eircom and at worst an attempt to divide up the market and reduce competition.

Honestly it would be very naive to think anything else, this is Eircom we are talking about here.

Azhrei

Do we have any more news on this? Any idea when they will start offering their services?

Nonoperational

I'd venture that it will be years before we get anything other than a pilot.

Mr. G

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/what-will-esbvodafone-fibre-network-do-to-entice-new-punters-30108429.html

6. Finally, do we know that this new fibre network is really going to happen?
It looks pretty certain now. The legislation to allow it happen has been quickly passed and a green light from the EU (which needs to sanction the initiative because of the nature of the ESB) is expected. More importantly, the two companies putting up the money – ESB and Vodafone – say they are solidly committed to doing so. Vodafone is freshly flush after its €90bn Verizon stake sale, while the ESB just announced a €415m profit.

Azhrei

Cheers, G. Seeing as Eircom has seen fit to build fibre cabinets around us but not near enough, UPC isn't interested in the fact that we exist and Cobh is more than large enough to fit the ESB's criteria, I'm hoping to go with the latter. There is a substation at the beginning of our estate, which I am very close to, so I'm also hoping that we will be able to get near to full speed from it.

It will be nice to be able to not have to pay to rent the landline any more, and a 15mb connection speed up to a 150mb one will be a nice jump

Mr. G

Azhrei wrote: »

Cheers, G. Seeing as Eircom has seen fit to build fibre cabinets around us but not near enough, UPC isn't interested in the fact that we exist and Cobh is more than large enough to fit the ESB's criteria, I'm hoping to go with the latter. There is a substation at the beginning of our estate, which I am very close to, so I'm also hoping that we will be able to get near to full speed from it.

It will be nice to be able to not have to pay to rent the landline any more, and a 15mb connection speed up to a 150mb one will be a nice jump

I would imagine it would be in a few years time so I wouldn't get your hopes up just yet.

It's fibre so distances between houses won't affect speed anyway.

AlanS181824

Because it's a deal between ESB and Vodafone do you think current Vodafone customers would get upgraded if they were in an eligible area or are Vodafone just there to provide the cash?

Also what will it be branded as? We'll have ESB Networks then Electric Ireland who aren't ESB anymore and then ESB broadband?

Surely they'd stick with Vodafone's name to prevent confusion.

norrie rugger

wait until the hassle begins with rural dwellers amd lines running over their land, especially if they are not able to benefit from the connection

boardzz

It will be Vodafone selling the broadband using ESB infrastructure.

garroff

Norrie, at present fibre is wrapped around 110Kv lines and some lesser voltage (38KV), have you seen any problems?

Its ok for rural dwellers to have wind turbines and 400kv masts but please do not look for high speed broadband.

We really don't know our place!!!!.

MajesticDonkey

garroff wrote: »

Norrie, at present fibre is wrapped around 110Kv lines and some lesser voltage (38KV), have you seen any problems?

Its ok for rural dwellers to have wind turbines and 400kv masts but please do not look for high speed broadband.

We really don't know our place!!!!.

The countryside is just a transport lane for services to cities. Who are we to expect these services!

norrie rugger

I was highlighting that work will need to be carried out on people's land while they may not even get the benefit of that work. Not everyone is having a go at rural dwellers lad.
Also considering where i live.
And yes, wind turbines are grand, saying this as someone who lives next to a peat bog and likely to have them placed there at some stage.

MajesticDonkey

norrie rugger wrote: »

I was highlighting that work will need to be carried out on people's land while they may not even get the benefit of that work. Not everyone is having a go at rural dwellers lad.

I don't think Garroff was having a go, just pointing out how behind in everything as usual the country people are.

norrie rugger

it read like he thinks that I'm having a pop at rural dwellers

garroff

Thanks Majestic.
The reality in my case is that I have a 220KV mast behind my house, a 20Kv trafo and line in my garden and a 110kv line with wrapped fibre in front of my house.

I can live with this because I enjoy the benefit of a reliable electricity supply at a reasonable cost.
Now am I been unreasonable to ask that that fibre should help me?

norrie rugger

have you even fully read my post? Which i even clarified.
I am highlighting that exact fact

celtic_oz

i'm trying not to pay any attention to this thread because it just gets my hopes up

It's not working though, is there any estimated rollout times ?

MajesticDonkey

celtic_oz wrote: »

i'm trying not to pay any attention to this thread because it just gets my hopes up

It's not working though, is there any estimated rollout times ?

Well the first question is...are you in a town of more than 4000 people? If not, then you'll probably be waiting years.

celtic_oz

nope rural house getting .1mbs from three under the nbs who say 2.3mbs is available at 6:00am every second sunday and therefore they are delivering their mandate

Talk to comreg and they are giving them a good hard stare though, so have given up.

MajesticDonkey

celtic_oz wrote: »

nope rural house getting .1mbs from three under the nbs who say 2.3mbs is available at 6:00am every second sunday and therefore they are delivering their mandate

Talk to comreg and they are giving them a good hard stare though, so have given up.

I am in the same position, though I gave up on Three and Comreg a few years back. Not getting much better service now with a private provider.

football_lover

There is no real rural broadband plan at national level. It is all a myth.

Fiber optics is the only cost effective solution to bring Broadband to rural communities.

Copper and wireless based system are too expensive and they are also bandwidth limited.

What all of this means is that the 20 billion that rural Ireland contributes to GDP will shrink as other countries become more competitive with the use of technology.

Irish agriculture has embraced genetics and this will become one of the most powerful tools in combating disease in humans, livestock, crops and also viral outbreaks. But it will require rural fiber optics.

football_lover

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Well the first question is...are you in a town of more than 4000 people? If not, then you'll probably be waiting years.

My gut feeling is that we will be waiting to the point that everybody in the country realizes how far Ireland has fallen behind and at that point it will be too late.

Politics only reacts to pressure of some sort such as a crisis but there will be too much lost ground by the time it happens.

We need to start with Fiber optics now and just maybe by about 2020 we would have a national network and enable Ireland to be a world leader in agriculture and SME's.

MajesticDonkey

I admire your enthusiasm but I strongly believe that what you're hoping for is completely and utterly not going to happen by 2020. I would however love to be proven wrong.