SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

wandatowell

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Why in the sweet **** are Cork, Galway etc City on that list? Why not bring it to places that have bad connections FIRST, and then move to cover everywhere else?

I thought the original plan was to install these new services in towns that don't already have UPC?

Very good point pal.

wandatowell

OneEightSeven wrote: »

you would have to lock people down contracts for decades to pay back the investment Vodafone and ESB are putting it to the area.

I don't believe you would have to lock people down for decades at all. A lot of rural folk dont have a fixed line option at all and would only love to pay for the vodafone/ESB.


Voda/ESb would be flooded with people throwing their money at them

OneEightSeven

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

I'm not talking about complete rural areas that wouldn't even be classified as villages. This is my response to your point, which I posted already above:

Fair enough, but the areas where UPC areas located are the most profitable - this is why UPC moved into those areas in the first place. Perhaps Vodafone-ESB think they can grab their customers with a superior product.

Fibre to the home is the pinnacle of broadband, UPC will need to upgrade their cables to compete with the upload speeds offered with FTTH.

OneEightSeven

wandatowell wrote: »

I don't believe you would have to lock people down for decades at all. A lot of rural folk dont have a fixed line option at all and would only love to pay for the vodafone/ESB.


Voda/ESb would be flooded with people throwing their money at them

What if they pass away or move house? Imagine Eircom paying ten of thousands of euro to bring fibre to a rural area. Eircom lock them down to 18-month contracts, a couple of the people in the area die or move house, others decide that when their contract with Eircom is finished they'll move to Vodafone.

It just not worth the risk and hassle. I'm sure Eircom will extend into semi-rural area, but only if they calculate that there's enough houses in the area to pay back their investment.

---

Anyway, it would be great if Eircom introduce a fibre on demand scheme like BT did. I can see that solving a lot of arguments.

Quin_Dub

OneEightSeven wrote: »

What if they pass away or move house? Imagine Eircom paying ten of thousands of euro to bring fibre to a rural area. Eircom lock them down to 18-month contracts, a couple of the people in the area die or move house, others decide that when their contract with Eircom is finished they'll move to Vodafone.

It just not worth the risk and hassle. I'm sure Eircom will extend into semi-rural area, but only if they calculate that there's enough houses in the area to pay back their investment.

---

Anyway, it would be great if Eircom introduce a fibre on demand scheme like BT did. I can see that solving a lot of arguments.

If they were to use this to sort out the back-haul to all the rural exchanges it would resolve most of the issues....

A lot of exchanges are enabled but have pitiful back-haul, my own has 8mb , so in the evenings when you get 15-20 people online, it's utterly unusable..

I'm not expecting 100Mb+ fibre to my rural house, the economics would not make sense...

But - If someone delivered a decent fibre pipe to my exchange I could then get 15-20mbs..

Not screaming fast , but enough for what I want and an acceptable trade-off for being able to live out in the country-side with a bit of space and no neighbours...

MajesticDonkey

OneEightSeven wrote: »

It just not worth the risk and hassle. I'm sure Eircom will extend into semi-rural area, but only if they calculate that there's enough houses in the area to pay back their investment.

The problem with that for rural customers (including myself) is, if that is the case, there will never be any point to extend fibre to rural areas, as long as those areas stay rural, because it'll stay as expensive to install it (unless the price of installation comes down, which it probably won't too much) and there will never be more than "a few" houses using it.

I think what ISPs need to accept is that every community in the country should be a potential customer - it'll just take longer in some areas to gain back their investment. But oh no...they want their investment back in 2-3 years, so rural customers can go f**k themselves.

Owryan

According to the blurb on newstalk you all be able to download a full movie in 2 seconds.

MajesticDonkey

Owryan wrote: »

According to the blurb on newstalk you all be able to download a full movie in 2 seconds.

Maybe if the movie is 10 minutes long you might.

A full HD movie is going to be around 3-4000 MB in size, a 720p movie typically around 7-900 MB. With a connection of 200Mbps, it would take 30 seconds to download a 720p movie and 2 and a half minutes to download a full HD movie, which I would happily put up with any day of the week.

There really wouldn't be much point downloading movies with a connection like that anyway, because you can just stream all day from Netflix or whatever.

Nolars

I hear the word rural being used alot with this why? joke as always

Quin_Dub

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Maybe if the movie is 10 minutes long you might.

A full HD movie is going to be around 3-4000 MB in size, a 720p movie typically around 7-900 MB. With a connection of 200Mbps, it would take 30 seconds to download a 720p movie and 2 and a half minutes to download a full HD movie, which I would happily put up with any day of the week.

To be honest.. If I could get a service that allowed me to stream a movie/tv show in HD in the evenings I'd be ecstatic...

15-20mb uncontended and I'll be a very happy bunny indeed..

I'm not asking for too much....

Am I??

Quin_Dub

Nolars wrote: »

I hear the word rural being used alot with this why? joke as always

"Rural" means "Not City" in their world...

Not what Rural means for every other definition on earth...

MajesticDonkey

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be honest.. If I could get a service that allowed me to stream a movie/tv show in HD in the evenings I'd be ecstatic...

15-20mb uncontended and I'll be a very happy bunny indeed..

I'm not asking for too much....

Am I??

Exactly. Like I keep saying, I'm paying €35 per month for a 2Mb connection, which is 1Mb more often that it's 2Mb, which is so utterly ridiculous in the year we're in it's not even funny anymore. I don't give a crap if I can't get fibre - I don't expect it - but I should be getting a reliable, constant 15-20Mb connection at this stage.

Quin_Dub

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Exactly. Like I keep saying, I'm paying €35 per month for a 2Mb connection, which is 1Mb more often that it's 2Mb, which is so utterly ridiculous in the year we're in it's not even funny anymore. I don't give a crap if I can't get fibre - I don't expect it - but I should be getting a reliable, constant 15-20Mb connection at this stage.

I'm part of the SamKnows test group for Ireland, which means I have a separate box measuring my broadband performance all the time..

As I've been posting here , my monthly report for June just came through...

Time Average (Mbps)
03:00 2.56
09:00 1.3
15:00 0.9
16:00 0.81
17:00 0.84
18:00 0.7
19:00 0.56
20:00 0.4
21:00 0.27


This shows my average speed for the month at various times through the day....I have a 3Mbs profile currently configured...

Check out the averages in the evenings....

I don't care how rural I might be , that's simply unacceptable in an alleged modern "high tech" society...

AlmightyCushion

I don't really know why places like Sligo are on that list. Sligo already has both UPC and e-fibre. They'd have to price it cheaper than either of then to win customers quickly. Hopefully, they focus on some of the more rural parts of these places which can't already get decent broadband.

bk

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Why in the sweet **** are Cork, Galway etc City on that list? Why not bring it to places that have bad connections FIRST, and then move to cover everywhere else?

I thought the original plan was to install these new services in towns that don't already have UPC?

Most of the towns/cities on the list already have 100Mb+ fibre. Unless Eircom charge a fair bit less than what the current providers charge, why would anybody switch to them?

Why are you surprised at any of this, you were clearly told by people in the know right here on this forum, that this wasn't aimed at rural Ireland, rather it is aimed at urban and semi-urban areas not currently serviced by UPC.

The reason is very simple, economics. It costs an average of €10,000 to run fibre to a rural home, while it costs €1000 to do a urban/semi-urban homes.

Yes, they aren't targeting UPC areas, however Cork City, Galway, while having UPC, have many densely populated areas of those cities that aren't actually serviced by UPC (or only serviced by crappy MMDS feed service, no broadband).

These are ideal areas for the ESB to target and the ESB has said they will specifically target areas down to the street level. So if one street has UPC, but the next street doesn't in Cork, then they will target the non-UPC street.

Yes, many if not all of these areas will already have Eircom eFibre, so how will they compete? Well I believe they will offer Gigabit speeds by default on this service, offering speeds 10 times faster then the best you can get from Eircom eFibre. I also expect they will have a very high quality TV service on the system.

ESB believe they can become the "UPC" of non UPC areas. UPC has managed to capture 40% of Eircoms customers in the areas they service. The ESB I assume believe they can do the same in non-UPC areas.

This is where the economics come in, assuming the ESB get a 40 to 50% take up rate, then they can service 4 to 5 homes in urban areas, for the cost of just one home in a rural area. As a company required to make a profit, it is a no brainer.

However for those in rural Ireland, I wouldn't despair, this is actually really good news for all of you. In the long term (20+ years) fibre will come to every home in Ireland and the ESB are the best placed to deliver this (thanks to their existing network of poles and no investment in an existing network). It was never realistic that the ESB would start in rural Ireland, but the sooner they start in the urban areas, the sooner they build up experience in actually delivering FTTH, experience which they will require in later phases when they rollout to rural Ireland (probably with some government subsidy).

Also Eircoms eFibre is definitely being rolled out to many parts of rural Ireland, including an additional 500,000 homes then they originally planned. I've heard that Eircom specifically made this change due to fear of competition from this ESB network. So rural Ireland is already benefiting from this. More competition is very good news.

Quin_Dub wrote:

If they were to use this to sort out the back-haul to all the rural exchanges it would resolve most of the issues....

There is a separate government scheme to bring fibre to every town and village in Ireland. Eircom should then be able to feed their rural exchanges, which as you say should help many rural users greatly. This fibre can also be used to improve 3G and 4G services and fixed wireless services from every town and village.

Also with the success of the VDSL rollout, I'd imagine a lot of Eircom ADSL2+ gear is going unused in city exchanges. I'd hope that Eircom will transfer some of this gear to small rural exchanges, many of which currently are limited to max 8mb/s ADSL DSLAMS.

It won't happen overnight, but increases in the cities will also trickle down and help those in rural Ireland.

Quin_Dub

D_BEAR wrote: »

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/37476-esb-and-vodafone-announce/

The list of 50 towns:
.....
Shannon, Clare
Ennis, Clare

So - Selfishly looking at Clare where I live - The only 2 places they are covering are also currently the only two places in Clare where you can already get UPC and Eircom eFibre (and Vodafone)...So not giving anything to anyone that doesn't already have it...

What's the f***ing point.........

bk

Quin_Dub wrote: »

So - Selfishly looking at Clare where I live - The only 2 places they are covering are also currently the only two places in Clare where you can already get UPC and Eircom eFibre (and Vodafone)...So not giving anything to anyone that doesn't already have it...

What's the f***ing point.........

To make money!

Quin_Dub

bk wrote: »

To make money!

I know I know... Allow me my moment to vent my spleen at the marketing spin that headlines it as an expansion of service when in reality it's simply more competition for existing customers..

More competition is good and as you mention in your other post, hopefully Eircom do sensible things like move the now redundant urban ADSL2+ kit out to the rural exchanges..

But I'm just tired of the spin around Broadband and "rural" expansion....

MajesticDonkey

^^ this.

I know I keep ranting on about this over and over, but it's so unbelievably sickening to have to put up with sh!t service constantly, more so when it's emphasized and emphasized again to be a rural project.

Having said that, I'll be upgrading to 5Mb (for €40/month) in the coming weeks... I'm moving up in the world

Sully

I'm in Tramore. We do not have full efibre coverage (it only came live recently) and there isn't much competition in the market. UPC have no interest in coming here but Voda / ESB will be. Good news for us.

I'm intrigued as to how this is going to pan out. Will it be a case of fibre to the home or to a cabinet? What about telephone services - is that VOIP styled or what's the craic?

same ol sh1te

Sully wrote: »

I'm intrigued as to how this is going to pan out. Will it be a case of fibre to the home or to a cabinet? What about telephone services - is that VOIP styled or what's the craic?

It's fibre to the home

Sully

same ol sh1te wrote: »

It's fibre to the home

Spotted a video after I posted which explained it. I'm intrigued as to how the telephone service is going to work though. I've heard UPC's phone service isn't that great and must be connected where the modem is?

Shady Tady

What a load of ****e, it's urban broadband and as usual rural broadband is left with 3rd world speeds, bunny Rabbitte will no doubt count this as his parting achievement. It's clear they see dublin as urban and the rest of the country as rural, well there are people who live in the country as well, this won't even come to most small towns. Pure spin!

bk

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

^^ this.

I know I keep ranting on about this over and over, but it's so unbelievably sickening to have to put up with sh!t service constantly, more so when it's emphasized and emphasized again to be a rural project.

In fairness, the ESB/Vodafone never claimed this project was aimed at rural Ireland. They always said it was going to be urban and semi-urban areas not serviced by UPC.

You and a few others here on this thread mixed this announcement up with a totally separate government lead project to bring fibre to every village in Ireland and suddenly you all thought it with FTTH for rural Ireland!

Despite being told numerous times by people in the know in this thread, you and others continued to wrongly believe it was rural FTTH.

And it is a pity because this fantastic news, perhaps one of the best pieces of news to hit the Irish Broadband market in years has being somewhat derailed by people who simply confused themselves.

Sully wrote: »

Spotted a video after I posted which explained it. I'm intrigued as to how the telephone service is going to work though. I've heard UPC's phone service isn't that great and must be connected where the modem is?

UPC's phone service is excellent and works just as well as a normal phone line.

Yes, UPC's phone service works using VoIP, but you would never know it, it uses a standard Irish phone number, with a standard dial tone, etc.

Yes, you need to plug your phone into the back of the UPC router to use it. You can opt to have your existing house phone wiring, wired into the port in the UPC router and all your old phones will work as they always did. However most people don't bother with this anymore, as they just use wireless DECT phones which work very well with UPC.

Yes, I expect the ESB FTTH phone service will work in the same way as UPC.

However to be honest, it is probably the least interesting part of this announcement. Gigabit speeds and a new TV service on it will be much more interesting.

To be honest, I hardly use my UPC phone service anymore. €15 per month gets me unlimited calls to mobiles and landlines from Tesco Mobile, so no need for this old tech.

Sully

Shady Tady wrote: »

What a load of ****e, it's urban broadband and as usual rural broadband is left with 3rd world speeds, bunny Rabbitte will no doubt count this as his parting achievement. It's clear they see dublin as urban and the rest of the country as rural, well there are people who live in the country as well, this won't even come to most small towns. Pure spin!

You have cities, towns, and villages. Most cities have UPC and Eircom fibre. Most towns only have Eircom fibre, either in part, coming soon or not at all. Villages are where the downfall lies. Competition is slim.

In order for the ESB & Vodafone to get a return on the significant investment, and launch quickly, it makes sense to launch into these areas first and then expand to more rural areas.

Idbatterim

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/europes-fastest-broadband-set-to-be-launched-in-dublin-30398477.html

A new ‘ultra broadband’ service is to be launched in Dublin, with speeds of up to 1,000 megabits-per-second (Mbs) offered to residents in some of the capital’s neighbourhoods. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/europes-fastest-broadband-set-to-be-launched-in-dublin-30398477.html#sthash.B1koZBCN.dpuf

The service, launched by Magnet Networks, will target three areas in Dublin for the fibre broadband technology. Sandyford, Stillorgan and North Dublin’s Belmayne are first on the list, according to the firm’s networks manager, Darren O'Donohoe.

“The service we’re offering will give customers up to 1,000 megabits per second,” said, networks manager in Magnet. “It will be the fastest consumer broadband offering in Europe. You can download a full high definition movie in seven seconds.”

Mr O’Donohoe declined to say what the minimum guaranteed speed would be but said that “typical” speeds would be over 300Mbs per second. At present, UPC’s fastest broadband service is 200Mbs while Eircom’s fastest speed is “up to” 100Mbs. He said that the new service will cost €50 per month.

Recent official figures show that average Irish broadband speeds have jumped in the last 12 months, with over half of all subscriptions now over 10Mbs and over a third of subscriptions over 30Mbs.

Meanwhile, the Minister for Communications, Pat Rabbitte, said that the government wants to subsidise fibre broadband rollout to over 1,000 rural villages outside existing commercial broadband areas in a project that could cost up to €512m.

Magnet’s announcement comes ahead of a new €400m fibre broadband service to be launched by the ESB and Vodafone in large towns around Ireland. The service, which is expected to be formally confirmed by the two companies tomorrow, is expected to offer fibre broadband over ESB lines in areas that are not covered by existing fibre broadband services.

Eircom has hinted that it might challenge the new ESB Vodafone service as it believes the joint venture may be using state assets in an uncompetitive way.
- See more at: http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/europes-fastest-broadband-set-to-be-launched-in-dublin-30398477.html#sthash.B1koZBCN.dpuf

MajesticDonkey

bk wrote: »

In fairness, the ESB/Vodafone never claimed this project was aimed at rural Ireland. They always said it was going to be urban and semi-urban areas not serviced by UPC.

You and a few others here on this thread mixed this announcement up with a totally separate government lead project to bring fibre to every village in Ireland and suddenly you all thought it with FTTH for rural Ireland!

Despite being told numerous times by people in the know in this thread, you and others continued to wrongly believe it was rural FTTH.

And it is a pity because this fantastic news, perhaps one of the best pieces of news to hit the Irish Broadband market in years has being somewhat derailed by people who simply confused themselves.

Actually, no, I didn't mix up anything. Pat Rabbitte announced this plan as a project for RURAL IRELAND. Open the link in the very first post on this thread, and you'll see:

Plans are afoot for the ESB network to be used to roll-out broadband across rural Ireland.

To repeat, yes it was Pat Rabbitte that said this, not the ESB (or Vodafone), which is what I meant by "advertised as a rural Ireland project".

What you believe I'm mixing it up with is the National Broadband Plan, which is still in the planning phase, and will be out for public consultation in a few months. I've been emailing the DCENR constantly about this with the last few months.

So please, clarify yourself first, before pointing out that others are confused.

This ESB/Vodafone project is good news - I agree - but what it will do is create a bigger divide between rural and city broadband speeds, as if it needed "biggening".

Apogee

Vodafone/ESB video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNx5-sT-9I

http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/media/vodafone-group-releases/2014/esb-vodafone-ireland.html


I think some posters may be confusing this commercial ESB/Vodafone rollout with the proposed Government-subsidised National Broadband Plan to bring fibre to smaller villages which probably not start until 2016.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/2014/Major+fibre+build-out+to+rural+Ireland+will+be+cornerstone+of+Government+strategy.htm

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/some-answers-to-key-questions-on-rural-broadband-30241457.html

same ol sh1te

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Actually, no, I didn't mix up anything. Pat Rabbitte announced this plan as a project for RURAL IRELAND.

This is not the same plan, this is a joint venture between the ESB and Vodafone, the National Broadband Plan still exists

KIERAN1

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Why in the sweet **** are Cork, Galway etc City on that list? Why not bring it to places that have bad connections FIRST, and then move to cover everywhere else?

I thought the original plan was to install these new services in towns that don't already have UPC?

I thought the plan was to to bring ESB fibre to areas outside of our cities? Frankly i think its waste of time bringing ESB fibre to cities. Hardly anyone will want it when they can get 100 to 200 meg already. That's more than enough speed for the average household. Businesses might take it up depending on how reliable it is. Pricing will be a big factor too. If the ESB and Vodaphone can offer fibre at a lower price this can't be good for Eircom and UPC.

ESB fibre would be great for more rural areas than city areas and towns that have already got fibre.