SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

dbit

bk wrote: »

That seems to be a bit of an open question.

ESB/Vodafone say that their FTTH network will be open to be used and resold by all operators in the style of Eircoms Bitstream service (ADSL & VDSL).

But what Eircom say they want is access to the ESB's power lines and ducts, so they can lay their own fibre more easily. Which is different to what the ESB are offering.

FACEPALM Eircom . Bastards. They can deliver similar services themselves why should they now gain access to another orgs ducts and runs - Do you think eircom would do this for any other provider , the Ducting aspects im refering too not the silly llu offers they give third parties.

murphaph

flamegrill wrote: »

And have all but deemed it commercially unsound as a product.

If that were true then why future proof their VDSL cabinets for FTTH (they have announced this to be the case). Eircom aren't entirely stupid folks. They know what's coming down the line at them and I don't expect them to roll over an capitulate. They also have by far the biggest and densest fibre network in the country. The ESB and UPC are way behind in this respect. They also have cables just like the ESB running right into people's homes and they can also push fibre along a duct just like in Odin's pics. They are just as well placed (and indeed in many respects better placed) to deliver FTTH to large numbers.

The only place I see and advantage for the ESB is actually in rural environments where they might run FTTH wrapped around overhead supply lines. The Eircom overhead lines are in much worse shape physically than the ESB's. This could be a factor but in reality we're a good while away from FTTH for such premises anyway, regardless of supplier.

Hackery

dbit wrote: »

FACEPALM Eircom . Bastards. They can deliver similar services themselves why should they now gain access to another orgs ducts and runs - Do you think eircom would do this for any other provider , the Ducting aspects im refering too not the silly llu offers they give third parties.

ESB has offered it as an open access network. Nothing to do with eircom.

murphaph

Hackery wrote: »

ESB has offered it as an open access network. Nothing to do with eircom.

But Eircom is trying to throw a spanner in the works by claiming they should be allowed PHYSICAL access to the ESB's network of ducts and cabling, so Eircom can use these physical channels to route their own physical fibre. Personally I don't see how Eircom can justify this claim.

dbit

murphaph wrote: »

But Eircom is trying to throw a spanner in the works by claiming they should be allowed PHYSICAL access to the ESB's network of ducts and cabling, so Eircom can use these physical channels to route their own physical fibre. Personally I don't see how Eircom can justify this claim.

Yes at least you understand my point.

dbit

murphaph wrote: »

But Eircom is trying to throw a spanner in the works by claiming they should be allowed PHYSICAL access to the ESB's network of ducts and cabling, so Eircom can use these physical channels to route their own physical fibre. Personally I don't see how Eircom can justify this claim.

They wil sell LLU's and access to llu's just the same as eircom does

ukoda

murphaph wrote: »

But Eircom is trying to throw a spanner in the works by claiming they should be allowed PHYSICAL access to the ESB's network of ducts and cabling, so Eircom can use these physical channels to route their own physical fibre. Personally I don't see how Eircom can justify this claim.

isn't it a bit ridiculous for eircom to want to lay fibre beside ESB's fibre? wouldn't make more sense to wholesale it?

I mean its a bit like Airtricity wanting to lay electricity cables instead of using ESB's network:eek:

Hackery

I would assume that as the ducting is public owned infrastructure the European commission will decree that other operators such as BT, eircom, UPC etc should also have access to it at a regulated price controlled by ComReg.

murphaph

ukoda wrote: »

isn't it a bit ridiculous for eircom to want to lay fibre beside ESB's fibre? wouldn't make more sense to wholesale it?

I mean its a bit like Airtricity wanting to lay electricity cables instead of using ESB's network:eek:

I don't expect Eircom would ever actually lay fibre alongside ESB fibre. They are just using this claim to delay the ESB rollout I think. It would indeed be almost exactly the same as laying parallel electricity cables and such a thing is preposterous.

murphaph

Hackery wrote: »

I would assume that as the ducting is public owned infrastructure the European commission will decree that other operators such as BT, eircom, UPC etc should also have access to it at a regulated price controlled by ComReg.

Ducting is owned by all sorts of different entities, private and public.

Hackery

murphaph wrote: »

Ducting is owned by all sorts of different entities, private and public.

I was referring to the esb owned ducts.

murphaph

Well, semi-state owned does not mean publicly owned. Private bus operators can't ask to use Dublin Buses, even though they are owned by a semi-state.

Hackery

murphaph wrote: »

Well, semi-state owned does not mean publicly owned. Private bus operators can't ask to use Dublin Buses, even though they are owned by a semi-state.

If you replace bus with copper you can see that eircom are required under eu competition rules to share that. I would expect the Commission to make some ruling on shared access to ducting in the name of competition. Other operators not just eircom have an interest in this.

Johnboy1951

Hackery wrote: »

If you replace bus with copper you can see that eircom are required under eu competition rules to share that. I would expect the Commission to make some ruling on shared access to ducting in the name of competition. Other operators not just eircom have an interest in this.

If the copper equates with fibre ....... are Eircom required to allow others to use their ducting for Vodafone copper for instance?
I did not believe so.

Eircom are required to share the copper .... not the ducting, as far as I am aware.

dbit

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If the copper equates with fibre ....... are Eircom required to allow others to use their ducting for Vodafone copper for instance?
I did not believe so.

Eircom are required to share the copper .... not the ducting, as far as I am aware.

Correct as in housing estates third party pstn's cannot duct to and estate eircom has to do that. I have seen loads of sob story's over the years where developers did nothing to approach utilities companies to pre duct the area and low and behold its eircom that hold up the show , factoring in of course the shody office work not fully done by the housing developers.

Ordin73

Ok guys first off I swear that I wasn't just teasing you with these speed tests!!
The problem was they are just so inconsistent!!
On my laptop the speeds wired and wirelessly were just not right so I waited and let the engineers confirm what I thought. Anyway here is what they got!!


The following tests were all the same and I was told that this is the average they are expecting as it rolls out.

PeadarB

That's fibre!!!

If this is an indication of what's coming down boys 'n gals we're in clover.

Eircom finger out time - now!!!

Ordin73

Well it IS impressive but what I don't understand is why MY laptop speed test are much lower than this..I get that wireless its alot slower but wired?




Wired on my laptop the results vary but on average look like



Wirelessly

Its Only Ray Parlour

If you want to truly enjoy that ping of 1ms, I suggest downloading Firefox or Google Chrome or Opera and then install a plug-in/extension called AdBlocker.

Internet Explorer is a big pile of steaming shíte. I haven't used it since 2008 when I discovered to brilliance of Mozilla Firefox.

Ordin73

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

If you want to truly enjoy that ping of 1ms, I suggest downloading Firefox or Google Chrome or Opera and then install a plug-in/extension called AdBlocker.

Internet Explorer is a big pile of steaming shíte. I haven't used it since 2008 when I discovered to brilliance of Mozilla Firefox.

Lol as I said the pics were of their laptop...I tend to use Firefox myself but thanks for the tip on AdBlocker I will give it a go

bk

murphaph wrote: »

If that were true then why future proof their VDSL cabinets for FTTH (they have announced this to be the case). Eircom aren't entirely stupid folks. They know what's coming down the line at them and I don't expect them to roll over an capitulate. They also have by far the biggest and densest fibre network in the country. The ESB and UPC are way behind in this respect. They also have cables just like the ESB running right into people's homes and they can also push fibre along a duct just like in Odin's pics. They are just as well placed (and indeed in many respects better placed) to deliver FTTH to large numbers.

True.

It would actually be cheaper, easier and quicker for Eircom to do FTTH then the ESB. The reasons are:

- Much more extensive and deep fibre network. In particular the new FTTC network which Eircom have designed from the start to be FTTH ready.
- Existing telecoms experience and existing relationship with telecoms customers.

The reason however why the ESB will do FTTH faster then Eircom initially at least is because the ESB currently have no network. If the ESB want to enter the telecoms market they have to build a new network from scratch and if you are doing that no point not to go FTTH from the start as most of the cost is labour anyway.

Eircom on the other hand already have a legacy copper network and for them it makes more sense to sweet that existing network for as long as they can until forced to rollout their own FTTH network due to competition.

I hear it costs Eircom 5 times as much to do a urban FTTH install as it does to do an urban FTTC/VDSL install. So it makes economic sense for them to wait and see what the ESB do first, before spending lots of money building thier own FTTH network.

- Maybe the EU won't give the ESB the go ahead
- Maybe the ESB will be slow to start
- Maybe the ESB rollout will be slow
- Maybe the ESB won't get the number of sign-ups they expect and will cancel the rollout.
- Maybe a lot of people will be already stuck in contracts with Eircom
- Maybe Eircoms VDSL will be cheaper then the ESB's FTTH and people won't be willing to pay more for the extra speed, with VDSL being good enough for them.

Lots of maybes, it makes sense for Eircom to wait and see before then invest lots of money in their own FTTH network to compete. Given how long it takes to rollout FTTH and how slow people are to sign up for new services, Eircom can likely wait two or more years before they start losing significant numbers of customers to the ESB.

However the ESB does have advantages too. Most importantly they are debt free and very profitable. They have an excellent track record in big infrastructure projects and seem to think very much long term. I assume they have little difficulty raising capital to fund the building of their FTTH network versus debt laden and risky Eircom.

Also I hear that many of Eircoms poles in rural areas are in a bad state and might not be able to take the extra weight of fibre gear. In contrast, the ESBs pole network is in excellent condition and of a much higher quality. This might be the main reason why Eircom wants access to the ESB's network to run their own fiber.

As to the question, will Eircom duplicate the ESB's FTTH network and build their own FTTH network next to the ESB's, rather then being a reseller on the ESB's network. Yes, I believe they will.

The reason is believe their is more value to be made owning your own network then being a reseller.

Eircom would probably make more money getting 100% of the revenue from a connection, even if only 50% of people sign up, rather then say making just a small 10% margin being a reseller on the ESB's network.

This is why UPC aren't a Eircom VDSL reseller, even though it might make sense to do so.

I was even more surprised that UPC didn't partner with the ESB on their FTTH network rather then Vodafone. Seems like it was a great opportunity for them.

ED E

UPC have end to end control, I suspect they like this as their service teams are very effective with huge quality control and auditing.


Is the ESB fibre GPON like Eircom or doing or single fibre links for every customer?

garroff

Just seen the speeds. Just turned green with envy.
Are we witnessing the demise of Telecom Eireann.

bk

ED E wrote: »

UPC have end to end control, I suspect they like this as their service teams are very effective with huge quality control and auditing.

Yes, but it would have allowed them access 500,000 to a 1 million extra premises that they currently don't service.

Also it allows a powerful new company enter the market. While ESB/Vodafone don't currently expect to compete with UPC, in time as the complete the initial phases, if it goes well they might decide to start targeting UPC areas.

ED E wrote: »

Is the ESB fibre GPON like Eircom or doing or single fibre links for every customer?

GPON from what I hear.

h_orse

I cant believe my eyes, honestly I cant.

Think this is the first time I payed so much attention for so long

Ordin73 maith an fear.

I have a smart tv with 2.5mb feeding it from eircom

What a waste of time...?

When is it coming to longford...?

Ozziejoe

Just back from OZ after 3 years of working on their National Broadband Network (NBN) where we rolled out both FTTH and FTTC. Looking at the Cavan photos the ESB are using GPON. It really is irrelevant what speed the trial users get as GPON is capable of delivering 2.5Gig downstream and 1.25 Gig upstream. These speeds will be shared across 32 or 64 customers depending on the splitter ratio used on the distribution fibre. The final service will be sold with rate limiting i.e. the ESB have advertised a 200Mbps symmetrical service on launch but this can be increased to 1Gbps later. It will be irrelevant whether it is ESB, Eircom or UPC who delivers the FTTH service they will all have the same options on end user speeds – Like mobile broadband, just remember that these are just headline speeds and the more users on your GPON tree group – the less bandwidth to go around. Thinks of GPON technology as a motorway and the ESB as the speed limit/traffic police – they will control how fast you go and in the long run it will be who pays the most, gets the fastest speed.

dbit

Ordin73 wrote: »

Ok guys first off I swear that I wasn't just teasing you with these speed tests!!
The problem was they are just so inconsistent!!
On my laptop the speeds wired and wirelessly were just not right so I waited and let the engineers confirm what I thought. Anyway here is what they got!!


The following tests were all the same and I was told that this is the average they are expecting as it rolls out.

Jesus wept holy God , Internets, what Internets . In Ireland today the internet lives in cavan .

Lots of love from cork . Dad has a house in cavan fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap !

Luck SOB.



Had to share this on Facetube one of my sweedish buds will get a kick out of this .


Oh and loving the Buy broadband from eircom add for only 24.99 a month pmsl.

Ordin73

Ok bk I will try and answer all your questions and relate the process it as it was done

Last year the majority of the ground work for this was done, and an electrical conduit was left between the manhole and my ESB meter box see first pics 2 & 3.

The Fibre cable was then fed thru this and the grey "TE" outside box was placed on the wall as in pic 1 in the second batch I posted .
Next a hole was drilled through wall and the white faceplate was put on the inside wall of the house. If you see pic 2 in the second batch you will notice a green adapter head, this has a long wire that is passed out to the "TE" box.
Apparently this is the difficult bit as the outside fibre cable is spliced together with the indoor cable in the grey "TE" box. I didn't see what this involved so I cant tell you guys any more
After that it was a simple thing to put the Alcatel ONT unit on the wall and connect it to the faceplate then run a ethernet cable to the Huawei router..plug all in and GO!
Now this whole process did take awhile..there were a few stop/starts for various reasons. For example the day before health and safety decided they needed to turn the power off to the house before ANYTHING was touched and they had to wait for the ESB tech to arrive. He did arrive but then the powers that be decided turning the power off was unnecessary. Then the ONT unit hadn't arrived so they had to call back a little later..Then the tec who had to check the installation and stability of the connection was delayed until the following day. All just little teething problems as everyone involved was learning as they were doing lol.
As for the router it just seems to be a just standard router and the setup could be attached to what ever you want, but from what Ive read the Huawei is quite good.
Finally there was no mention of other services, not yet at least. The whole focus seems to be on the Fibre

Ozziejoe

I would suggest that you all take 15 minutes to read about TWDM-PON(XG-PON2) that will be available in the next two years. this will deliver 10Gbps speed across the same fibre infrastructure that ESB and eircom are trialing at the moment. The beauty of this next generation PON is that you have 4 x 10Gig wavelengths on the one fibre – that means that in theory esb, eircom, UPC and another operator can deliver FTTH to the same home on the same fibre – we were researching this in OZ before I left – I tell you this is the future.

BArra

I can see the less tech savvy users who take this up having headaches with bottlenecked wifi

Or Ethernet ports on computers only being 100mbps

You really need a solid setup, ac WiFi router, ac WiFi nic in laptop/computer, 1gbit plus nic Ethernet