Power Meter Brands

godtabh

Just doing some research on power meters.

I haven't a clue of brands or types. Looking for info on ant compatible devices. It will be for a single bike use only.

Idleater

http://bit.ly/1hIZwcg

Beasty

Check out www.cyclepowermeters.com

I think all they do except for Polar are ANT+ compatible, and the only major brand they don't sell is powermax (http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/)

Ryath

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews/power-meters

Good place to start reading up on them. Leaning towards the power2max myself.

Mechanic365

Anybody ever seen this Pioneer powermeter? I seen it in between a dura ace crank one day?
Oh here it is, I wonder if its on sale yet?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gy1rMeRkdVg&list=PLUdAMlZtaV13YJHezxloByoym22GRjwMn&feature=plpp

godtabh

The one I saw was the Stages power meter but never heard of it before

harringtonp

Went through that process myself for a long time, doing a lot of reading. Bought a power2max last October for price/reliability/simplicity reasons and have not seen anything yet to make me think otherwise.

Stages would be the only other one I would consider due to its slightly lower price point on basic models but the doubling left leg power didn't do it for me.

Smalltom

I have a power2max and have no issues bar it doesn't give true left/right power like the garmin vector which is around €1500 as opposed to €800/900. If I had the money then garmin vector but am delighted with my P2M.

Beasty

I'm about to give up on the Vector because it's not showing the consistency I would expect from L & R. On a recent trip to Newport velodrome cadence and power were dropping to zero when there was no scope for freewheeling on a fixie. We had a thread about them where others were noticing discrepancies when measured against other PMs

I have been regularly ensuring the pedals are tightened to the correct torque but still see a tail off of power output during a session (when I know there should not be - again it's easy to notice on an indoor track when power should pretty much be in line with speed except when drafting), and L/R balance shifting between 42/58 either way (when I know I am pretty consistently close to 50/50 on a Quarq and Wattbike). Looking at individual data points it's clear that sometimes it iis not picking up L or R at all with it being skewed 100% one way on occasions

It may be that I've got a dodgy set, and DCRainmaker did eventually get himself happy with his own set-up. However I've seen too many problems already, both from my own experience and that of others, to trust them.

Inquitus

So whats the best value in the PM world? Stages and Power2Max? and any preference therein?

Quigs Snr

Inquitus wrote: »

So whats the best value in the PM world? Stages and Power2Max? and any preference therein?

I got the Power2max after giving up on my rather Fragile Powertap. Stages multiplies one legs power to get the output for both. For some folks myself included that means that absolute power is less accurate than Power2max so it was a no brainer for me...

Beasty

Never heard any complaints about Power2Max (but I've never used one)

I think it's too early to tell with Stages - the fact it only measures one leg is a major disadvantage - although I've mentioned I am typically 50/50 anyway, others may be materially different. I'm right footed and my right leg certainly used to be a lot stronger than my left, but I suffer from sciatica in my right leg which probably helps even things out

Don't discount Powertaps if you are prepared to stick with the one wheel. I've also never had any major issues with Quarqs - I think technology and reliability wise they are fine but they are a bit pricier

Lumen

I've used Powertap, Quarq and P2M.

I've not used SRM, partly due to the cost and partly because you have to ship it for battery changes (or at least that was the case a couple of years ago).

The Quarq (SRAM version) is a very high quality piece of kit with which I've had no problems other than a bit of creaking. The Powertap suffered short bearing life. The P2M (BOR version) doesn't creak but was awkward to fit and therefore problematic for foreign trips.

If I was doing it again I'd look for an Campag Ultratorque thinger but AFAIK only SRM do one.

Inquitus

If you have a stages and you ride 45% L / 55% R it will overestimate your power obviously, but if it does this consistently then as a training / race aid it matters not? as long as you are consistently comparing the same data, and it is consistently flawed, you are getting the same use out of it as any of the others? aside from you will think your ftp is higher than it is or am I wrong in that assertion?

Beasty

Inquitus wrote: »

If you have a stages and you ride 45% L / 55% R it will overestimate your power obviously, but if it does this consistently then as a training / race aid it matters not? as long as you are consistently comparing the same data, and it is consistently flawed, you are getting the same use out of it as any of the others? aside from you will think your ftp is higher than it is or am I wrong in that assertion?

No it's a fair summary. The only slight caveat is whether your L/R split may be different in different scenarios (sprinting as opposed to steady riding, in or out of the saddle for example). I personally find it's pretty much 50/50 in all scenarios (except when I'm having a problem with the back with additional sciatica related weakness in the right leg)

As I said though, it's early days for Stages and it may be worth waiting a while (as I should probably have done for the Vector, but I had hoped it would provide a reliable measure for the track bike, and the only alternative at the time was the SRM at nearly twice the price)

Lumen

Beasty, there has been a track powertap available for ages.

I was thinking of putting one on the kids bike but had a bit of a word with myself and decided against it.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Beasty, there has been a track powertap available for ages.

I did know (but tbh had forgotten about it), but it limits you to the one wheel, and I want it as much for racing (when I will be using a variety of wheels, including disc wheels). I had been holding out (probably for 2 years or so!) for the Vector as I had expected that to provide all I needed (as well as easy back-up should I ever need to send one of the road bike PMs back for service/repair)

godtabh

I am basically looking into one to prevent burnout.

Like most people I'm busy but want to get as much rides in as possible but I am not particularly smart about it. I might ride alot one week and physically not able for it next. I believe that PM's can help with this (so can alot of other things) so I'd like the research into it.

Beasty

Stages announced as official supplier of PMs to Sky

That's a massive vote of confidence for them

After extensive testing and validation Team Sky has chosen to exclusively use the Stages power meter during the 2014 racing season

It will be interesting to see exactly how "exclusive" this is, or if any of the team actually race with SRMs

Diarmuid

Beasty wrote: »

That's a massive vote of confidence for them

I was thinking more along the lines: "that must have cost them a ton"

godtabh

Beasty wrote: »

Stages announced as official supplier of PMs to Sky

That's a massive vote of confidence for them
It will be interesting to see exactly how "exclusive" this is, or if any of the team actually race with SRMs

Saw that. Probably made my mind up. My brother in law is home from the states in May and I'll get him to bring back one as I think it will work out a lot cheaper

Darkglasses

Do Stages make head units? Or will they still be using SRM on the handlebars?

godtabh

Darkglasses wrote: »

Do Stages make head units? Or will they still be using SRM on the handlebars?

Not that I've seen. I assume they are ant /Bluetooth compatible

mossym

Diarmuid wrote: »

I was thinking more along the lines: "that must have cost them a ton"

i'm sure a lot of money went with that deal

at the same time, the idea that a result chasing team like Sky would use sub par equipment just for the money they get from a power meter maker is crazy. no results, all the other suppliers go away as well, and they are faced with bigger losses than the stages deal will make up for.

the anti stages crew on other forums are already saying that part of the deal is that stages have to develop a two sided version to provide L/R data. i find that extremely hard to believe. if that were the case they would have had to have done it before sky started using it and sky would have had to tested and okayed it before announcing it. i find it more likely sky are happy with the performance as is and are happy stages provides the data they need. that coupled with a big envelelope of moolah and sky are on stages

mossym

godtabh wrote: »

Not that I've seen. I assume they are ant /Bluetooth compatible

they are both, the recently announced polar w800 claims support with them over bluetooth, and they connect to the garmins with ant+

mossym

Darkglasses wrote: »

Do Stages make head units? Or will they still be using SRM on the handlebars?

all the sky riders have already been photographed with the stages meters in place and garmins on the bars.

so, easy inferrence is, but a stages and a garmin and you're as fast as froomie:)

godtabh

mossym wrote: »

i'm sure a lot of money went with that deal

at the same time, the idea that a result chasing team like Sky would use sub par equipment just for the money they get from a power meter maker is crazy. no results, all the other suppliers go away as well, and they are faced with bigger losses than the stages deal will make up for.

the anti stages crew on other forums are already saying that part of the deal is that stages have to develop a two sided version to provide L/R data. i find that extremely hard to believe. if that were the case they would have had to have done it before sky started using it and sky would have had to tested and okayed it before announcing it. i find it more likely sky are happy with the performance as is and are happy stages provides the data they need. that coupled with a big envelelope of moolah and sky are on stages

I'm sure they've done the test comparisons and know the link between l/r balance

mossym

godtabh wrote: »

I'm sure they've done the test comparisons and know the link between l/r balance

it's not my view, but the common argument is that the L/R balance is not the same across effort, fatigue level. and other variables. agree or not, there is some data out there to support that. the argument about single sided measuring will be more commonplace now that a high profile team is using them

Statler

godtabh wrote: »

Saw that. Probably made my mind up. My brother in law is home from the states in May and I'll get him to bring back one as I think it will work out a lot cheaper

Works out cheaper alright, I bought one from a bike shop in the states shortly after they launched, unfortunately I had to return it as it decided to stop speaking to my Garmin, (Stages and the Bike Shop I got it from couldn't have been more helpful in fairness, couple of emails back and forth trying a few fixes but then said they'd replace it asap) posting it back was a bit of a pain and bear in mind that when you're getting anything from the States you're liable for VAT and customs charges as well. If I was buying again I'd probably get it in the UK, less hassle in the long run...

godtabh

Statler wrote: »

Works out cheaper alright, I bought one from a bike shop in the states shortly after they launched, unfortunately I had to return it as it decided to stop speaking to my Garmin, (Stages and the Bike Shop I got it from couldn't have been more helpful in fairness, couple of emails back and forth trying a few fixes but then said they'd replace it asap) posting it back was a bit of a pain and bear in mind that when you're getting anything from the States you're liable for VAT and customs charges as well. If I was buying again I'd probably get it in the UK, less hassle in the long run...

Where did you buy yours and what price was it?

easygoing39

I'd be in Florida,Missouri and Wisconsin with work a far bit.So I looked up Stages Power website to see what shops stock them near to where I'll be working.Then I clicked on the shops website for prices etc.Of the 10 shop websites I looked at,none listed Stages Power meters even though they were listed as dealers.I wonder are they special order only??? Next step will be to e-mail the shops to get prices etc.

mossym

Statler wrote: »

. If I was buying again I'd probably get it in the UK, less hassle in the long run...

there had been issues affecting a number of users, good news is they seem to have been resolved, this may have been your issue and buying in the uk might not have avoided it but as you say would have left you with easier service. been watching these for a while now and if i was getting one would likely go uk based as well for the service reasons
(apologies for posting a link to another forum but here is the issue)
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93866&start=75

joey100

I've been keeping an eye on stages for the last while too, I could probably get two stages powermeters for the price of 1 quarq but am going to wait a while to let them sort out any teething issues, like the problem with the batteries draining after a spin.

For people looking at buying in UK, Cyclesuperstore are now stocking them, seem to only have shimano in stock but everywhere seems to be short on SRAM,

http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/showsearchresults.asp?idCategory=282

harringtonp

joey100 wrote: »

I've been keeping an eye on stages for the last while too, I could probably get two stages powermeters for the price of 1 quarq but am going to wait a while to let them sort out any teething issues, like the problem with the batteries draining after a spin.

For people looking at buying in UK, Cyclesuperstore are now stocking them, seem to only have shimano in stock but everywhere seems to be short on SRAM,

http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/showsearchresults.asp?idCategory=282

Was looking a few months ago, this is the first link I've seen where you can actually drop one into a basket, other links provided had a promise of them coming.

They are meant to be cheap but the cheapest on this link is 839. When you consider that you can get a power2max for 858 including postage, 839 is not cheap...

I've seen cheaper prices advertised on their own site but can anybody actually provide a link to a UK/IRL shop where you can buy one now for these cheaper prices ?

goose06

harringtonp wrote: »

Was looking a few months ago, this is the first link I've seen where you can actually drop one into a basket, other links provided had a promise of them coming.

They are meant to be cheap but the cheapest on this link is 839. When you consider that you can get a power2max for 858 including postage, 839 is not cheap...

I've seen cheaper prices advertised on their own site but can anybody actually provide a link to a UK/IRL shop where you can buy one now for these cheaper prices ?

You get 10% off if you register on the site.

barleyman

Have recently purchased these, seems to be a garmin special in OZ @ the moment so if you know anybody coming home!!

http://www.wildfiresports.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=vector
http://www.pmcycles.com.au/garmin_vector_power_pedal_kit_bundle

Vector Pedals + Garmin Edge 510 €941 delivered

but on reading Beastys observations on the vectors i'm now a bit disappointed I didn't go down the power2max route. The only reason i didn't was i didn't want to wait for the type S.

Statler

godtabh wrote: »

Where did you buy yours and what price was it?

Got it from www.fitwerx.com, found them on the DC Rainmaker discussion about the Stages, at the time they seemed to be the only ones openly ofering to ship to Europe. Worked out at approx €700, delivery was €50 if I remember but then the customs and VAT charges kick in so all in it wasn't far off €900. Good deal at the time but now that I think of it you'd be better off buying this side of the pond, unless the price over there has fallen.

mossym wrote: »

there had been issues affecting a number of users, good news is they seem to have been resolved, this may have been your issue and buying in the uk might not have avoided it but as you say would have left you with easier service. been watching these for a while now and if i was getting one would likely go uk based as well for the service reasons
(apologies for posting a link to another forum but here is the issue)
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93866&start=75

That wasn't the issue I had but I did hear of it and in fairness to them it seems to have been sorted. My unit just wouldn't get recognised by my Garmin, or the Ipad app, initially it would communicate after a few restarts of the Garmin or taking the Stages battery out and reinstalling, but then it stopped completely. Both Fitwerx and Stages were very good in fairness to them with support, the new unit seems to be working fine.

Darkglasses

Here's Sir Brad's head unit. Clearly a rebranded garmin

godtabh

Darkglasses wrote: »

Here's Sir Brad's head unit. Clearly a rebranded garmin

where is that from? is it the 810?

godtabh

Just saw it posted in Facebook

Darkglasses

It is the 810, I got it off facebook.

Beasty

That stem looks very long. Pleased to see his nod to the Mods;)

Ryath

Lumen wrote: »

I've used Powertap, Quarq and P2M.

I've not used SRM, partly due to the cost and partly because you have to ship it for battery changes (or at least that was the case a couple of years ago).

The Quarq (SRAM version) is a very high quality piece of kit with which I've had no problems other than a bit of creaking. The Powertap suffered short bearing life. The P2M (BOR version) doesn't creak but was awkward to fit and therefore problematic for foreign trips.

If I was doing it again I'd look for an Campag Ultratorque thinger but AFAIK only SRM do one.

Hi guys just bumping this as I'm going to take the plunge and order a power2max. Trying to decide between all the options whether to get the old one or wait for the typeS. Have fired of an email them to them with some questions but want to ask for some advice here.

Lumen if you were buying from them again which would you go for? The Bor looks tempting as it is compatible with everything but the bottom brackets are a touch pricey. What bb do you have. Any idea if you can just replace the bearings and seals in the BSA cups or do you have to replace the lot?

Currently running sram rival with a FSA gossamer crank with BSA bottom bracket. I'm considering upgrading the groupset to Force22 or buying a Canyon ultimate AL or CF with force 22 which have BB86 bottom brackets. In the long term I will do both. Power2max say it usually is not compatible with BB86 frames using sram force cranks but the typeS is compatible with more BB86 frames? There is a few places on site where they give slightly contradictory advice on compatibility but I suppose this is muddled by the new model and will probably be clearer when it is launched

Being able to use a force crankset is the probably the best value option for me to get a power2max but I'm wondering are the rotor or Bor options better as they will give me more flexibility in the future in moving between bikes.

If the p2max is compatible with force cranks on Canyons using a BB86 bottom bracket this is may not be an issue as I will just get the two different force cranks and move the p2max spider as required.

One thing I'm not clear on though is p2max say with force22 chainring you need to mount the chain drop pin on the other side. Does it still function correctly?

Lumen

Ryath wrote: »

Lumen if you were buying from them again which would you go for? The Bor looks tempting as it is compatible with everything but the bottom brackets are a touch pricey. What bb do you have. Any idea if you can just replace the bearings and seals in the BSA cups or do you have to replace the lot?

I think it came with a Token BB. Totally unmarked, not even any directional arrows to prevent inept spannering.

Taking it on an off it a right faff compared to the GXP Quarq which is just one bolt. I used spoons, and one one occasion a blowtorch (I was possibly drunk).

I like chainsets which go on and off quickly, particularly for a powermeter. This is not one of those.

Ryath

Lumen wrote: »

I think it came with a Token BB. Totally unmarked, not even any directional arrows to prevent inept spannering.

Taking it on an off it a right faff compared to the GXP Quarq which is just one bolt. I used spoons, and one one occasion a blowtorch (I was possibly drunk).

I like chainsets which go on and off quickly, particularly for a powermeter. This is not one of those.

I assume yours is a BSA68 bb. This is the one they sell on the site for bsa
http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Produkt/accessories/bortune-bottom-bracket-for-bsa-and-ita/#!prettyPhoto

Fairly pricey at €79 would want to get two years at least at that looks no worse than gxp bb to fit my eyes? Their press fit bb's are a good bit cheaper.
Thought with bor you were tied to their bb as the crankset is compatible with all bb types.

Chips Lovell

Awesome!



http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/type-s-the-power-meter-of-movistar-team/

Lumen

Ryath wrote: »

I assume yours is a BSA68 bb. This is the one they sell on the site for bsa
http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Produkt/accessories/bortune-bottom-bracket-for-bsa-and-ita/#!prettyPhoto

Fairly pricey at €79 would want to get two years at least at that looks no worse than gxp bb to fit my eyes? Their press fit bb's are a good bit cheaper.
Thought with bor you were tied to their bb as the crankset is compatible with all bb types.

They've added the directional arrows now. :pac:

It's not so much a problem of fitting/removing the BB, it's fitting/removing the crankset that's awkward. Maybe it needs some sort of extractor - there were no instructions to I improvised with spoons.

That Movistar Campag job looks ace, although I'd want compact (for hilly holidays) and that isn't.

Chips Lovell

They're producing a compact as well as a big boy crank.

harringtonp

I found the BB stuff very confusing and asked their support a lot of questions and sent photos with measurements before buying. I got

http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Produkt/bestsellers/power2max-rotor-3d-road/

which fits all 3 of my bikes and I move it very quickly between my winter bike and summer bike (which I use with the turbo this time of year). Actual moving is less than 5 mins but include wiping of chainrings/chain getting toolbox/putting it away, 10 mins is more realistic. If you're crankset spindles are 24mm chances are it fits.

To take it on/off a 8mm key is needed to take on/off the cap and a 5mm key to loosen/tighten the lock bolt. That's it. I'd bet it is as quick to move between bikes as the vector is (including the vector calibration time of course).

Lumen

harringtonp wrote: »

I move it very quickly between my winter bike and summer bike (which I use with the turbo this time of year). Actual moving is less than 5 mins but include wiping of chainrings/chain getting toolbox/putting it away, 10 mins is more realistic

My SRAM GXP Quarq can be done in 1 minute 6 seconds. :pac:

(not by me though, it takes a triathlete to time transitions of bicycle components)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0

godtabh

Lumen wrote: »

My SRAM GXP Quarq can be done in 1 minute 6 seconds. :pac:

(not by me though, it takes a triathlete to time transitions of bicycle components)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0

Hopefully he remembers the handle bars