Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

DoctaDee

Very good point PD - Mannion, Jack Mc and Kilkenny were gone before HT or shortly after in the 2013 Final ... never underestimate experience, I was always a bit put out when Barry Cahill left the panel that year as the year wore there was always gonna be the occasion when his know how was needed

Stoner

ProudDUB wrote:

Maybe I'm just paranoid from 2013, but back then, the new kids on the block (Kilkenny, Mannion, Jack Mc, Kevin O'Brien) were less effective as the year wore on. Last year, Costello was virtually invisible against Donegal. So I wouldn't be discounting the importance of the likes of Bastick or Alan Brogan just yet, if not to start, then at least off the bench.

I agree . You could even say that that 2011 team is about 80% our best team. Yes there been some retired but counting the subs etc there has not been a huge change when it hits the fans bastic McCarthy, McMahon and brogan all get their games back. Apart from Kevin Nolan (sick) and I dont know if you could count Brennan, but apart from that all the big game winners were there in 2011.

Mannion , Costello, OBrien , carthy, all fade later on.

Don't know about Carthy tbh he started the league well. But Fenton came in and looked better all round apart from the scoring side of things. The two of them might be the future midfield but Fenton does more work imho and plays that Brian Cullen type half forward / third midfield better than carthy.

Kavrocks

ProudDUB wrote: »

Last year, Costello was virtually invisible against Donegal. So I wouldn't be discounting the importance of the likes of Bastick or Alan Brogan just yet, if not to start, then at least off the bench.

Costello is another I've great time for and would be starting ahead of Kev Mc. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have beaten Derry in the league, he deserved mam of that match in that game. Kev, being the super sub he is, can then come in the last 20 minutes and do what we all know he is capable of.

I wouldn't be ruling out Alan Brogan either. He's still a fantastic player with a great brain who always plays the right ball and is very unselfish. Until the game against Kildare I'd have wanted him in instead of Kilkenny but I think he really matured in that game. He took his points well, worked very hard and even tracked back when he needed to. Up until the Kildare game I was Kilkenny's biggest critic and wondered why people thought he was such a good player after only having 1 or 2 good games but he's moulded into a good replacement for Brogan.

Gavin definitely has the players where he needs them to be. I think the big difference between this and last year is the mental strength of the players. You can hear it in every interview its a calm determination underpinned with a huge sense of pride and comradery. It's a joy to listen to as much as their football is to watch.

ProudDUB

Yeah, I am not saying don't give a starting jersey to any of the newer lads. How else are they going to get experience? Just don't presume that they will all be as effective in August/September, as they were earlier in the year, when the stakes weren't so high and the margin for error wasn't as slim, as it is it later in the year.

As long as we have back up plans and a willingness to react quickly, if things aren't going to plan, I'll be happy. In 2013, when the newer lads seemed a bit out of their depth, it seemed to take the sideline by surprise. I hope that doesn't happen again. Learn from the mistakes of the past & don't repeat them.

Ed Winchester

Kilkenny is a perfect replacement for Alan. Similar, intelligent footballers who can create and score. I still think Alan has a bit to offer us yet though.

As for lumping Bastic and Fennel together. That's just wrong. Bastic has been fantastic for us. After a shakey, ill-disciplined start to his intercounty career he will retire a legend in my eyes. A guy who has made the absolute most of his talents and has the medals to show for it. The polar opposite of Fennell.

Stoner

Alan has plenty to offer alright . A half forward line with alan , Kilkenny and Connelly is a serious scoring unit. Flynns defensive game is the best we have in that area but he's the least threat for scores.
He'd be missed for kickouts and ball winning ability.

The best thing about him imho from a forwards perspective is his long range kick passing.

On a certain day he could have a lot to offer at half back. We'd have him for kickouts, winning the ball, engine and his distribution to the half forward and inside again could be telling. If we ever played a dedicated sweeper he would be very cabable imo and would offer better counter attacking options than O'Sullivan, the ball would do more of the work with him.

All that said he's a multiple all star as a half forward. But I'd look at him doing other jobs on a given day , particularly if up against Kerry and an unorthodox arrangements.

All Kilkenny ever consistently did wrong imo is drop this point efforts short.

He'll never go past or inside like A Brogan has, but Alan was always special. The one shining light during the more frustrating years, the guy teams took out or targeted, he ran the show as best he could. But Kilkenny looks like a more modern footballer now with his bulk he can mix it up more and complements Connelly and Flynn, he's more in their mold than Alan's, he is cabable in the centre alright, and has a lot of years experience being the man to stop at underage where he delivered while being double marked. Also like Alan he has a fantastic temperament and I've never seen him wound up.

WhatNowForUs?

We seem to have regressed a huge amount in hurling. It seems to be just hitting the ball as long as possible up the field.
I'll withhold my final judgement until the end of next season when management will have a fair crack at it.

Dyr

Cunninghams been tactically outmaneuvered again I think.

Uncle Ben

Dublin with the wind in the sails now.

Pierce_1991

Don't know how we got away with the win there. An immensely exciting final ten minutes but I think if we were playing a better side, of which there are plenty, we would have been out of the game at half time. Hopefully the win might give us the bit of confidence we've been lacking recently.

ProudDUB

Jesus Christ, the hurlers really will give me a bloody heart attack one of these days. :eek:

thinkstoomuch1

Poor team many arras but outstanding bold management decision win it Dublin over limerick better player


Never gave up credit cunningjham

Delighted for ye and Dublin hurling and told ye ye had great manager


Lot change has be done team next year but today proved he's man ye


Answered critsed and particularly humphrey Kellher who actually lost twelve games sacked Dublin manager

I always said he do well ye

Congratulations delighted Dublin hurling and great great hurling coach

Pierce_1991

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Poor team many arras but outstanding bold management decision win it Dublin over limerick better player


Never gave up credit cunningjham

Delighted for ye and Dublin hurling and told ye ye had great manager


Lot change has be done team next year but today proved he's man ye


Answered critsed and particularly humphrey Kellher who actually lost twelve games sacked Dublin manager

I always said he do well ye

Congratulations delighted Dublin hurling and great great hurling coach

I don't think anyone could say Ger Cunningham has been justified today or even that he was the key man in winning the game. I have nothing against Ger, happy to give him a chance, but he still has a lot to do to be considered a success. Dublin can't consider a league semi and AI quarter final appearance as a successful season, they need to do more. Today we were extremely lucky. A better side would have absolutely killed us in the first half. Credit where it's due, it was a bold move to bring on Cian Boland for Keaney and that was one of a couple of subs that really helped us win the game but still, you'd have to question why we started so poorly. Also, I can't help but think that with Rushe (rightfully) back in defence and a few others switched back to original positions, what has he really brought to the set up that wasn't there before?
Anyway, we'll see how we get on in two weeks time. I'm not saying Ger has done a bad job, but he's got a lot of work to do yet. Hopefully we can build on today and put in a big performance over 70 minutes in the quarters.

ProudDUB

Agreed. He may be a hero down in Cork, but it's different strokes for different folks. Today was a great day, but he has a way to go yet before he'll be considered a great manager for us. He still has questions to answer for the manner in which Carton left the team & the nature of the defeat to Galway. I'd question his man management skills too. Maybe we just don't realise how good we had it in that department with Anthony Daly, but its something you have to be very, very good at to be one of the managerial greats imo.

Stoner

Good win by Dublin, but to a large degree limerick threw it away . Wouldn't be constantly throwing in behind the coach on this all the time TTM just because he's from your neck of the woods. We should have been out of it at half time. Rush playing in his proper position worked, it was Cunningham playing him out of position. I wouldn't be shouting too much about a coach playing people in their best positions, moving them back there is not exactly Cody stuff. All those boys have produced at this level for Dublin before.

The positional changes before halftime were good alright. The spirt was very good too. The goal came at the right time but the standard of hurling throughout was poor for long periods you'd have to admit. The touch by both teams was off the required pace.

To me it looks like the lads pulled together at halftime for each other. If you think the coach has fostered a rosey atmosphere in the Dublin camp at the moment then you are sadly wrong I don't know what filtering back to you but .... I think the lads did that for themselves, I think interviews etc will highlight that and possibly Cunninghams won't be mentioned the way they use to talk about Daly after games.

It would be great if this was a kick start to things turning around for the management and the players and they can crack on and get the best from the coach, but I'm not convinced, Limerick were poor enough to be fair and will be very disappointed . I'm delighted with the win I don't feel as optimistic as I have in recent years.

Rightwing

Stoner wrote: »

Good win by Dublin, but to a large degree limerick threw it away . Wouldn't be constantly throwing in behind the coach on this all the time TTM just because he's from your neck of the woods. We should have been out of it at half time. Rush playing in his proper position worked, it was Cunningham playing him out of position. I wouldn't be shouting too much about a coach playing people in their best positions, moving them back there is not exactly Cody stuff. All those boys have produced at this level for Dublin before.

The positional changes before halftime were good alright. The spirt was very good too. The goal came at the right time but the standard of hurling throughout was poor for long periods you'd have to admit. The touch by both teams was off the required pace.

To me it looks like the lads pulled together at halftime for each other. If you think the coach has fostered a rosey atmosphere in the Dublin camp at the moment then you are sadly wrong I don't know what filtering back to you but .... I think the lads did that for themselves, I think interviews etc will highlight that and possibly Cunninghams won't be mentioned the way they use to talk about Daly after games.

It would be great if this was a kick start to things turning around for the management and the players and they can crack on and get the best from the coach, but I'm not convinced, Limerick were poor enough to be fair and will be very disappointed . I'm delighted with the win I don't feel as optimistic as I have in recent years.

This post gave me a great laugh. Very good analysis. We threw it away big style, only TTM couldn't see that. He must be orgasming at the very sight of Cunningham :rolleyes:

Anyway, well done to your boys, but I don't think there will be a 'double' achieved any time soon.

Dyr

Feel sorry for the limerick lads, have a lot of time for them as a team. They'll feel they let themselves down badly today

Dublin, god only knows. The quarters may make difficult viewing

danjo-xx

Nice to see the dubs coming from behind and winning a match, beats being ten points ahead and loosing one.

Least they are still in it, and didn't cave in totally today. Limerick lads will be kicking themselves.

Pierce_1991

Side note. Anyone else pick up on how much Daly wanted Dublin to win that game today from the co comm position. Legend.

thinkstoomuch1

Rightwing wrote: »

This post gave me a great laugh. Very good analysis. We threw it away big style, only TTM couldn't see that. He must be orgasming at the very sight of Cunningham :rolleyes:

Anyway, well done to your boys, but I don't think there will be a 'double' achieved any time soon.

Says the man that said limerick would win by ten points

Same fella convinced cunningjham poor manager

Same fella time again said jbm was worse tj Ryan

Same fella said time again kilmsllock would win all Ireland

Same fella said Allen win all Ireland and indeed up last year said Ryan good manager


With greatest respect I respect right your opinion and yes I'm wrong myself but seen you point out I'm wrong I think it's well known at this stage my posts are not give take few far off the mark and when it comes management I'd say overall pretty outstanding record you don't mind me saying


You are rarely right but credit due you called cork game



In relation to cunningjham to Dublin lads my point is absoultey one swallow never made summer but today changes he made at early stages game and switches showed cunningjham changed dynamic game and Dublin won game could lost


Dublin wont best waterford or tipp but I think tipp beat waterford

But Dublin and I said this many here know outgrown daly last year in many this team past the best so it should be appreciated where cunningjham is he's got old team past best with dotsie and dwyer good today but not good enough win all Ireland among others to league semi final and avoided relegated and all ireland quater final year one trying change completely new system and it takes time but players showed huge character belief in cunningjham never give up and mark my words Dublin next year will only have about six this team probably but new team and better next year so cunningjham deserves faith


Ye won't go further this year but done okay
Dublin can't score and that huge problem but lot poor turn over poor mistake can be worked on v waterford and no pressure on Dublin now so performance v waterford will do



Humphrey Kellher hugely lot respect him work in Dublin but he was incorrect critsim cunningjham man well proven and today he got he's answer and with respect kelliher got loss twelve games so much be sacked as manager


Cunningjham never got sacked and I guarantee you you asked limerick who want manager tonight they be sorry refused chance last year when they had it give him the job as he better players limerick work with but still Dublin beat limerick

Cunningjham won't get sack whatever happens and this post about he being inept with country accent was just utter utter nonsense as he done very good with limited team with lot milage hurling wise


Congratulations and have no fear when cunningjham leaves Dublin hurling ye imo will be much stronger
Course there's is chance I may be wrong

corny

Wouldn't be jumping to the defence of Cunningham at all. We were seriously outmanoeuvred in the first 20-25 minutes. Limerick used their spare man at the back to dominate the game. We got 2 points (one from play) when they should have put the game out of sight. When we went man to man up front, around the time Dotsy came on i think, we were much more effective. Point is, it was an obvious change but against better teams it would have been too late. Change was painfully slow in the Galway replay too btw.

Pleased for Dublin though and not just for the obvious. I think its important for the group that they won a close one. Standard wasn't great but there was a greater bite and intensity to Dublin at least. We're the poorest side left in the championship but confidence is a great thing. Hopefully we can pull together and improve the performance next day.

Rightwing

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

Side note. Anyone else pick up on how much Daly wanted Dublin to win that game today from the co comm position. Legend.

I thought so too, and Daly is probably being groomed for Limk job. Says a lot about the respect he has for Dublin hurling.

thinkstoomuch1

corny wrote: »

Wouldn't be jumping to the defence of Cunningham at all. We were seriously outmanoeuvred in the first 20-25 minutes. Limerick used their spare man at the back to dominate the game. We got 2 points (one from play) when they should have put the game out of sight. When we went man to man up front, around the time Dotsy came on i think, we were much more effective. Point is, it was an obvious change but against better teams it would have been too late. Change was painfully slow in the Galway replay too btw.

Pleased for Dublin though and not just for the obvious. I think its important for the group that they won a close one. Standard wasn't great but there was a greater bite and intensity to Dublin at least. We're the poorest side left in the championship but confidence is a great thing. Hopefully we can pull together and improve the performance next day.

Great post but cunningjham done well year one

Judge him year two as he needs radically change core this team next year

thinkstoomuch1

Rightwing wrote: »

I thought so too, and Daly is probably being groomed for Limk job. Says a lot about the respect he has for Dublin hurling.

I'd say limerick must think what might of been in they could had cunningjham
They done u turn on him last year when he had the job yet now he knocks them out of the championship

Course o grady was forced out and sure he's vindicated now in limerick didn't want change ways new style and go what failed last forty years and we'll tonight the chicken came home to roost in the hurling world

Rightwing

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'd say limerick must think what might of been in they could had cunningjham
They done u turn on him last year when he had the job yet now he knocks them out of the championship

Course o grady was forced out and sure he's vindicated now in limerick didn't want change ways new style and go what failed last forty years and we'll tonight the chicken came home to roost in the hurling world

No.

We blew it, and no point in blaming the manager now. Ryan is an amateur in every sense of the word and will probably be sacked but I've respect for him in that he wears his heart on his sleeve, and he is a gentleman. He tried his best and we should respect him for that.

I wish Dublin hurlers well and good luck in the next round, I don't know much about football, but their footballers don't need luck, probably the greatest football team to have ever played the game.

Stoner

TTM, he's laying no foundation at the moment, there is no need to keep crediting everything good about today to him. I watched the game after on TV and the two interviews with David OCallagan and man of the match Paul Ryan. Neither mentioned the management team David said they did for themselves they thought about not training together next week and went out and got stuck in. Paul said something similar. I had thought that would be the case and said as much earlier.

I disucssd this with you some time ago when we were talking about the cork footballers getting in a non cork manager, I said that whenever that happens the guys form the county that manager is from take huge credit for anything good that happens, and if it doesn't work out they state that you can't make a purse from a sows ear. (Like your ref to an old squad)

I've nothing aginst Cunningham he seems very genuine, but tbh you've taken up that model postion as outlined above. Thing is you thanked the post on the footballers when I made it.

Your first line pointed at poor play but bold management decisions got them out of a hole. Paul Ryan scored 12 points today he's been around for a long time , he scored them . O'Callaghan did well for his goal against a back line that played very well up to that he was playing in a position he's been familiar with off and on for over ten years with Dublin, but up to that the McCarthy and Hickey had our forward line in the bag.

There was not really anything bold about how that team lined out.

We don't have many all stars in Dublin hurling. He switched two of them , I wouldnt mind if he maybe he tried keaney back beside Rushe or Rushe up with keaney, but he pulls an all Star fullback out of a position to cover a dual all star center back who was pulled out up to the forwards, where our one, if not our best forward went back to the halfbacks.

I've read and understand his reasons for it.
I wouldn't mind if we had a great new number 3, 6, 10 and had extra capacity that could cope with maybe giving them a go and moving someone on trail with a new player coming in to cover, but switching your best defender and your best forward.

We don't have enough on the panel for that type of movement, Kilkenny and to a degree Tip can try that because they have layers of talent, we don't. Being an all star hurler in Dublin is a bloody big deal, I remember in the 1990's when Brian McMahon won our first one, It was a big deal .
McCrabe won one about 6 years ago, that was our second I think. Four years ago Maguire and rushe picked up our third and fourth. 2013 Peter Kelly got our fifth and Danny Sutcliffe our sixth and Rushe got his second and our seventh

So with respect to foundation if I'm correct with my count we have won seven all stars accross six players, I accept if my count is wrong.

At the start of the season five of those players and six of those seven all stars were available to this management team.
That is a foundation.

Against Galway in the first game only four played and only two in the postions they won the all stars in, Rushe has two all stars and was out of position. Kelly played at number three alright but had played 6 up to that to facilitate Rushe moving to 11.

Once again maybe my maths needs correction but of all the all stars in the history of Dublin hurling this management team started with 85% of them available. Against Galway in the first game less than 30% played in position.



Like prouddub said, I'm not saying he's not a great coach, maybe he'd do a lot better with more in the squad, but we have yet to see if he's right for Dublin.

I know a bit about why some of the lads left the panel , I won't post it here but it wouldn't be great reading.

And for the record I don't have a dub in mind that I'd have in there, that's not the reason I'm saying this, you won't see a negative post form me about Daly.

But Dalys Dublin would have hammered that limerick team today. The limerick lads know they massively under performed today and we've played better with a far better spread of scores over the past few years. I know some of the lads are older but moving them around wont make them younger.

And certainly moving them back to their preferred positions is not what I'd call bold. All he did was fix a mess he created imho it has not brought us forward.

We won't win an all star this year. I think we'll be eaten alive in the next game. Carton is a big loss, in the right position he's worth a couple of points in big games and can be a goal threat, but he's no full back, and shouldnt need to be when you have a fit Peter Kelly, but he is no number 6, but shouldnt need to be when you have Liam Rushe but he's up in the forwards, it's so radical it's pointless too many things changed to really analyze it.

I know I'm ranting again but if a Dublin guy did that people would say he was out his debth.

Finally, nice guy, the right guy for the right team, but not the right man just because of where he's from, and defending him on that basis of where he is from and thinking he'll build a foundation for Dublin hurling on that basis is wrong imho.

Best of luck to him. I'm no great fan of some of our options in that regard but it's not good at the moment but it could be better and I'm not convinced that means we are in good hands.

willietherock

Level of bitterness towards Dublin's win on here is hilarious. Pretty obvious a lot wanted Dublin to lose so they could sow it in to GC. Pathetic! The last poster mentions Michael Carton as " can be a goal threat". If that's the level of debate ye can forget about it.

thinkstoomuch1

willietherock wrote: »

Level of bitterness towards Dublin's win on here is hilarious. Pretty obvious a lot wanted Dublin to lose so they could sow it in to GC. Pathetic! The last poster mentions Michael Carton as " can be a goal threat". If that's the level of debate ye can forget about it.

Absolutely they don't like cunningjham and be fair he is too good for them if that's the attuide


Daly was hardly a God I will name many hammering Dublin had under him and average cork team cunningjham coach beat daly Dublin all ireland semi final


Ye got outstanding proven manager
Enjoy him and he's time with Dublin
Daly Dublin were far from great yes odd big days but lot turbulence also to be fair now

Slattsy

Good game for us the way Westmeath set up, no team will go toe to toe so we may aswell get used to that, good practice, albeit against a poor team.

Everyone seems to think that Dublin struggle against the blanket, of course we do, every team does !!!
Its very hard to play against that and always will be. Patience, taking the right option, and taking your chances are vital. We missed an awful lot of scores today.

With that said, teams that play that way will find it very hard to beat us and will need both luck and Dublin not taking chances when they come, ie Donegal last year (tactical naivety not included).

MacAuley and Flynn were tripe today. You'll forgive Flynn as he's still one of the best in the country, but MacAuley's form is worrying and seems intent on getting into as many scraps as possible.
Dean Rock again not offering a lot.

Connolly just sublime - best in the country by a long way atm, different gravy.

How Soon Is Now

Looking at the fixtures for the 1/4 finals they four on Saturday 1st August and 2 on the following week.

I take it it be two Saturday and Sunday each week?

Trying to figure out where Dublin fit in here what date there possibly playing on.

Is anything confirmed yet or is it all yet to be decided fully?