Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

Stoner

Past30Now wrote:

Good to see Shane Carthy get a run out for DCU. Niall Walsh from Plunketts looked very comfortable. Kinda reminded me of Mark Vaughan in his running style. Reddin at centre back was interesting. I thought Scully played well at half back. Throw in at 2:05. 38 minutes in the first half. 17 minutes for half time. 36 minutes in the second half.

Did you think Reddin was good there ? You'd have to wonder about lads like himself and Whelan, they put in a decent showing in this competition and fade out as league gets harder.
It must be difficult for them to give it a lash every year. The someone like Fenton comes along and slots straight in, it might add substance to the saying that you either have it or you don't.

Maybe something can be said for second keepers they rarely hold the number one spot having played as a number two for so long. The lad yesterday would make you think that Savage won't ever have a decent run if Cluxton called it a day.

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So you wouldn't do it because the culchies would be giving out? Never seemed to feature much in Dublin's thinking up to now to be fair...

Also, do you genuinely see yourself as different to everyone else in the 31 counties, i.e. the whole culchie thing? It is something I never really got..

Just go to your post history then you might get it.

Godge

Stoner wrote: »

Like the "genuine" question about how Dublin will be remembered in a few years a so that he could get his bit in about financial advantages again .

I was thinking of going into Mayo GAA forum and asking
"Genuine question, how do ye think this Mayo team will be remembered ?"

I'll let the genuine posters answer and pop back in with an answer that won't sit well there.

Not worth it for one though.

You would be risking a ban as well.

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Just go to your post history then you might get it.

Why cant you give a straight answer?

I repeat - if Im so biased or unfair, then you should be able to counter my points pretty easily. So by all means, do that. It is a bit rich trying to pretend you have the moral high ground, when you duck and dive from fair points and observations.

Godge

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why cant you give a straight answer?

I repeat - if Im so biased or unfair, then you should be able to counter my points pretty easily. So by all means, do that. It is a bit rich trying to pretend you have the moral high ground, when you duck and dive from fair points and observations.

Except this isn't a fair point or observation. It is trying to wind up a discussion on two Dublin teams again.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Do people think that Dublin could maybe enter a second team into the league and championship? It would be interesting to see how that team that togged out yesterday would get on for example.
With that many players in the county there must be a lot of guys who could make it but don't get the same chance they might get elsewhere.

Very transparent.

Billy Mays

Apparently he also believes every single person living in Dublin plays gaelic football

Slattsy

What do you think of the St Brigids player contract thing that was leaked?
I actually didnt think it was all that bad myself, all fairly standard stuff.

But sure its a Dublin club and clowns like McKenna love to blow things up...

Dyr

Slattsy wrote: »

But sure its a Dublin club and clowns like McKenna love to blow things up...

Is he still in hiding in South America with Hitler and Lord Lucan?

Kavrocks

Slattsy wrote: »

What do you think of the St Brigids player contract thing that was leaked?
I actually didnt think it was all that bad myself, all fairly standard stuff.

It's not that bad. It could be worded better but there are definitely some management teams that need something like that in place. I know in some clubs some senior teams have 5 or 6 people training at a time even if 2 or more panels should be training together. The end of the season than arrives, they get relegated and all of a sudden it's the managers fault and they want them gone.

MayoAreMagic

Godge wrote: »

Except this isn't a fair point or observation. It is trying to wind up a discussion on two Dublin teams again.

It isn't though, it isn't splitting the county at all, it is getting more guys exposed to top level football. If anything a second team would help Dublin's first team, as there would undoubtedly be players who, once they got a bit of experience, could and would start to develop, and would ultimately push into the first team squad, or maybe even first 15.

If anything, a guy from another county shouldn't want this to happen. They should be much happier with plenty lads not getting a chance to develop and maybe playing rugby or soccer instead.

If my own county had what Dublin has, I would be all for a second side to be honest with you. What good is there in holding down guys who are good enough to play at the top level? I don't think you are looking at the bigger picture. You are just jumping on the defensive as your default position.

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

Apparently he also believes every single person living in Dublin plays gaelic football

No I don't. But then every single person in any county, doesn't play football. There are more in Dublin but there is more of everything in Dublin. That is simply an increase in scale...

To be honest the above is completely undermined by the fact that they actually togged out a team over the weekend and that team was quite good. You cant attempt to argue that the players aren't really there, when we just seen them playing a game... Surely it is an experiment worth exploring at the very least.

Past30Now

Stoner wrote: »

Did you think Reddin was good there ? You'd have to wonder about lads like himself and Whelan, they put in a decent showing in this competition and fade out as league gets harder.
It must be difficult for them to give it a lash every year. The someone like Fenton comes along and slots straight in, it might add substance to the saying that you either have it or you don't.

Maybe something can be said for second keepers they rarely hold the number one spot having played as a number two for so long. The lad yesterday would make you think that Savage won't ever have a decent run if Cluxton called it a day.

My wording was "interesting". He looked very comfortable, but given the opposition and the fact that he was the senior player available, it wasn't really a test for him. JG isn't sitting at home watching the video thinking that he could be the difference, or the second coming of Kevin Moran, but he did a job for the team, and they may have needed some experience if the opposition had been slightly stronger.

I agree completely on how tough it must be for those lads to be serving their apprenticeship for years, and then to see someone like Fenton come out of nowhere, but as a fan I want to see the best, not those who have served their time, in the team. One day he may prove vital to the team, and I hope he continues the slog for the next few years.

As for Comerford, he looks good from the little I've seen of him. Nice save on the penalty, generally good quick accurate distribution. Savage seems to have been around forever. Hopefully Cluxton will keep going for another year or two.

Billy Mays

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No I don't. But then every single person in any county, doesn't play football. There are more in Dublin but there is more of everything in Dublin. That is simply an increase in scale...

To be honest the above is completely undermined by the fact that they actually togged out a team over the weekend and that team was quite good. You cant attempt to argue that the players aren't really there, when we just seen them playing a game... Surely it is an experiment worth exploring at the very least.

Why?

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

Why?

To develop our national game?
The give more people, who already have the ability to do so, a chance to showcase and develop their skills at the top level?
To help reinvigorate leinster?


Can you give any reasons as to why not?

Stoner

Past30Now wrote:

My wording was "interesting". He looked very comfortable, but given the opposition and the fact that he was the senior player available, it wasn't really a test for him. JG isn't sitting at home watching the video thinking that he could be the difference, or the second coming of Kevin Moran, but he did a job for the team, and they may have needed some experience if the opposition had been slightly stronger.

Yeah I've never seen him do much wrong at all really either . I think Shane B Carthy showed well last year and would be ahead of him regarding picking of a couple of scores .

But you never know we are told it's all about how you are moving in training.

Stoner

Slattsy wrote:

What do you think of the St Brigids player contract thing that was leaked? I actually didnt think it was all that bad myself, all fairly standard stuff.

I spoke to a couple of lads about it today, one guy from laois had seen similar stuff and so had others but he was the only one who had to sign something , but he was on a scholarship at the time.

There's seems to be nothing new in it, it's just all written down and having to sign it that seems to make a difference.

Poor decision to leak it though.

Billy Mays

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To develop our national game?
The give more people, who already have the ability to do so, a chance to showcase and develop their skills at the top level?
To help reinvigorate leinster?


Can you give any reasons as to why not?

Yeah, Dublin already have a team.

Jaden

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To develop our national game?
The give more people, who already have the ability to do so, a chance to showcase and develop their skills at the top level?
To help reinvigorate leinster?


Can you give any reasons as to why not?

* Drain on resources on our current senior team.
* Could very well end up as a nearly was/has been Dublin team. Who'd want to be part of that.
*Conversely, fringe players from other counties might declare for Dublin, thinking they can make this team and be more compeditive.
* A little pointless, unless this team can compete in League and Sam too. Then, Dublin Vs Dublin Provincial final would literally be the end of life as we know it, according to the ABDs.

These aside, there is merit to it, but then there is merit to amalgamating some counties into two and threes to make a competitive setup too. Roscommon/Sligo/Leitrim, or Wexford/Waterford for example. The issue here is that this is as unpalatable to those counties, as multiple Dublin teams are to Dubs.

As a starter for 10 though, having every county work on getting to a point where they can field a senior team in both codes would do far more to develop our national games then anything else suggested.

DoctaDee

Past30Now wrote: »

...............

I agree completely on how tough it must be for those lads to be serving their apprenticeship for years, and then to see someone like Fenton come out of nowhere, but as a fan I want to see the best, not those who have served their time, in the team. One day he may prove vital to the team, and I hope he continues the slog for the next few years.

As for Comerford, he looks good from the little I've seen of him. Nice save on the penalty, generally good quick accurate distribution. Savage seems to have been around forever. Hopefully Cluxton will keep going for another year or two.

Strange thing about Fenton is that contrary to the belief that he came in completely unmapped - he had been watched a good bit beforehand but didn't tick the boxes. I think it was more a case of "you gotta come see this lad" - "nah we've already seen him" - "but he's a completely different animal now" .. and the rest is history.

Comerford on the other hand is being whispered about in glowing terms up the back of the airport. The fact of the matter is that he's showing all the characteristics of a great goalkeeper and people are trying extremely hard not to burden the lad. I think he has 3 years in the 21's so time is on his side

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

Yeah, Dublin already have a team.

Nobody said they didn't.
That isn't a reason not to do it either. If every club team took that approach, imagine all the lads who wouldn't have gotten any game-time. Furthermore, plenty guys got up and running in the second team of a club, and went on to be a mainstay in the first team. You attitude is completely backward.

In reality, Dublin themselves have stated that county Dublin is more like a province as regards population and required funding etc. With that in mind, a second selection from the area wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility... In fact it is probably a pretty obvious step for any objective observer.

Billy Mays

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nobody said they didn't.
That isn't a reason not to do it either. If every club team took that approach, imagine all the lads who wouldn't have gotten any game-time. Furthermore, plenty guys got up and running in the second team of a club, and went on to be a mainstay in the first team. You attitude is completely backward.

In reality, Dublin themselves have stated that county Dublin is more like a province as regards population and required funding etc. With that in mind, a second selection from the area wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility... In fact it is probably a pretty obvious step for any objective observer.

Embarassing

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

* Drain on resources on our current senior team.

I don't think that stands up to be honest. Dublin probably bring in 25% of the overall funding in the gaa. Surely that kind of fundraising power can support two teams, when the other 75% is supporting 30 odd? Furthermore, they would in turn generate more money themselves from game attendances etc.

Jaden wrote: »

* * Could very well end up as a nearly was/has been Dublin team. Who'd want to be part of that.

I doubt many guys would quit the first team panel, only to take up with the second team, i.e. alan brogan for example. Id say you would get a lot of younger lads and good solid players, who would be good enough to play for most counties. A lot of guys who are that good and have shown that they are willing to put in that level of preparation (as they are already doing in Dublin club football) would like the chance to prove that they are indeed intercounty standard.

Jaden wrote: »

*Conversely, fringe players from other counties might declare for Dublin, thinking they can make this team and be more compeditive.

I don't get this one. If that was the case then wouldn't they already be declaring for other county teams? I don't see how that is specific to a Dublin B team...

Jaden wrote: »

* A little pointless, unless this team can compete in League and Sam too. Then, Dublin Vs Dublin Provincial final would literally be the end of life as we know it, according to the ABDs.

Why couldn't they compete? They could easily compete for a leinster final after a few years I would think. If they get there on merit then best of luck to them. If might also serve to kick other teams up the backside who seem to have developed an apathy to losing to Dublin. i.e. ffs lads, we aren't going to lose to their second team too.

Jaden wrote: »

These aside, there is merit to it, but then there is merit to amalgamating some counties into two and threes to make a competitive setup too. Roscommon/Sligo/Leitrim, or Wexford/Waterford for example. The issue here is that this is as unpalatable to those counties, as multiple Dublin teams are to Dubs.

Well in terms of getting more people playing at the top level - not really no, but I get what you are saying. However, joining up counties would require a of work, putting in a second team for a county who have the resources and population already in place could probably be done in the morning. In the same way it is much easier for a big club to put in a second team than for two clubs to amalgamate...

Jaden wrote: »

As a starter for 10 though, having every county work on getting to a point where they can field a senior team in both codes would do far more to develop our national games then anything else suggested.

In an ideal world yes. Some counties cant physically do it though as they simply don't have the numbers/following to support that. In fact most counties fall into that bracket.

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

Embarassing

Nonsense

Billy Mays

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Nonsense

You can't actually be trying to use that club analogy up there as an argument?


Lads, I'm gonna head down to Parnell Park after work to join Dublin. Anyone fancy coming along?

Gael85

Stoner wrote: »

Did you think Reddin was good there ? You'd have to wonder about lads like himself and Whelan, they put in a decent showing in this competition and fade out as league gets harder.
It must be difficult for them to give it a lash every year. The someone like Fenton comes along and slots straight in, it might add substance to the saying that you either have it or you don't.

Maybe something can be said for second keepers they rarely hold the number one spot having played as a number two for so long. The lad yesterday would make you think that Savage won't ever have a decent run if Cluxton called it a day.

I think Reddin was been quite unlucky not to have played championship. Was going well in league around 2014(I think) and never used for championship that year. Still only 25/26, a perfect half forward with Flynn going to midfield.

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

You can't actually be trying to use that club analogy up there as an argument?


Lads, I'm gonna head down to Parnell Park after work to join Dublin. Anyone fancy coming along?

The same principle applies. Obviously the standard is not the same, but the logic is the same.
I can give you the example of colm boyle in my own county, who got back into the senior squad on the back of his performances for the junior team.
Similarly look at fenton, you would be a fool to believe there are no others in a similar situation out there.

DoctaDee

Gael85 wrote: »

I think Reddin was been quite unlucky not to have played championship. Was going well in league around 2014(I think) and never used for championship that year. Still only 25/26, a perfect half forward with Flynn going to midfield.

I remember having a somewhat similar opinion at the time, and posted here along the lines of him showing that he's well capable at playing at this level - but the nature of the panel at the time meant that he had to display something more or different in order to dislodge those already there. If I'm being honest (and no disrespect to the chap) Reddin is a better fit and far more adaptable than Tomás Brady.

Jaden

Putting a second team into the frame, by definition weakens the prospects of both teams. This is probably the deal-breaker to this ever happening. Mayo are probably revenue generator #2 in the country, and you'd be shot for even suggesting that they should field two senior teams, even though this may help with the perceived lack of depth in the current panel. Kerry could probably field 4 senior teams, and come 1st 2nd, and 4th in Munster. But other than hiking costs to the CB, it's not going to help them one iota. More teams do not for a better competition make, *better* teams are needed. This is the crux of my point.

The framework needed to support and manage a second team won't simply come about because there is a framework for a single team there already, it would have to be built from scratch, and would have to be paid for. Again, it is arguable (but not definitively provable), that taking three current senior county setups, and creating one using the best each has to offer, is both more cost effective, and logistically faster.

We already have Dublin fringe players heading up to Meath to potentially get first team football. If a Dublin B team do well, it's reasonable to conclude the inverse could happen, with a good player for a 4th division county team, jumping ship to play with a team that has prospects.

But for me, the deal breaker is with the idea of a second team, from a sense of identity perspective. We identify with our County Team, it's a tribal thing that is endemic to every county. Diluting that simply because you can, is counter to why most people follow GAA at inter-county to begin with. How many dual Manchester City/United fans do you think there are? (I despise the use of soccer comparisons, but forgive me this one time).

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

Putting a second team into the frame, by definition weakens the prospects of both teams. This is probably the deal-breaker to this ever happening. Mayo are probably revenue generator #2 in the country, and you'd be shot for even suggesting that they should field two senior teams, even though this may help with the perceived lack of depth in the current panel. Kerry could probably field 4 senior teams, and come 1st 2nd, and 4th in Munster. But other than hiking costs to the CB, it's not going to help them one iota. More teams do not for a better competition make, *better* teams are needed. This is the crux of my point.

But again, Dublin have 20% of the population of the island, and are generating around, I would guestimate, 25% of the entire funding, not to mention their sponsorships. They are not operating on the same parameters of Mayo or Kerry (who both field junior county teams btw), and could easily support two teams to the level that Mayo or Kerry fund one team. So this idea of weakening the first side doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If they can fund two sides to the level that everyone else can fund one, then there is no weakening involved.

Also, even if there was some level of weakening, which I don't think the facts support, surely the level of players coming from the second side would more than cancel this out down the line? It is a bit like Michael O'Leary saying well Im not going to buy more planes to up my business because it is going to cost me something up front.

Jaden wrote: »

The framework needed to support and manage a second team won't simply come about because there is a framework for a single team there already, it would have to be built from scratch, and would have to be paid for. Again, it is arguable (but not definitively provable), that taking three current senior county setups, and creating one using the best each has to offer, is both more cost effective, and logistically faster.

Surely you just piggyback on what is already in place? You have a second management group at trial games and that is pretty much it.
As for amalgamations, I have been involved in some and witnessed others at club level - trust me, that isn't true. Amalgamating with your neighbours/rivals is not an easy process. It takes an awful lot of patience.

Jaden wrote: »

We already have Dublin fringe players heading up to Meath to potentially get first team football. If a Dublin B team do well, it's reasonable to conclude the inverse could happen, with a good player for a 4th division county team, jumping ship to play with a team that has prospects.

But if it is already happening, then this isn't specific to a Dublin B team. Your issue here is with transfer rules.

Jaden wrote: »

But for me, the deal breaker is with the idea of a second team, from a sense of identity perspective. We identify with our County Team, it's a tribal thing that is endemic to every county. Diluting that simply because you can, is counter to why most people follow GAA at inter-county to begin with. How many dual Manchester City/United fans do you think there are? (I despise the use of soccer comparisons, but forgive me this one time).

It isn't being diluted though. Both are your county team... Man utd and City are two different clubs. This is more like man utd and man utd reserves. I know utd fans can be a dose, but Ive yet to hear of any of them booing their reserves...

Slattsy

Verbal diarrhoea.