Charlatan "girl against flouride" finally exposed

Ziphius

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The abstract you link gives no indication of the dosage that gives rise to concern.

Neither does the body of the text. Just a reference to "children exposed to raised fluoride concentrations"

weisses

Muise... wrote: »

It's not the fluoride in the water supply they are worried about as that is measured and tested.

Where does it it get tested regarding the Neurotoxicity ?

Muise...

weisses wrote: »

Where does it it get tested regarding the Neurotoxicity ?

That is a question of dosage and we know that the amount (dose) of fluoride that is added to the water is far far less than the amount that can cause physical problems. I think you're referring to tests in a part of China where fluoride occurs naturally in the water? The levels there were far higher than what is added to water, milk, salt etc. The proper public health initiative in that case would be to reduce the amount, which might confuse you if you don't appreciate that the dosage is what makes the difference, not the substance itself.

Night Falls

TGAF is either an idiot or a liar. Either way, I try not to have my views formed by those sorts of people.

I totally understand the ethical argument re. "forcing" fluoridation on the population, but stick to that if that's what you're against, don't bring in totally false scientific arguments into the equation.

The "big pharma" conspiracy is also so weak that it doesn't stand up to even the smallest of scrutinies. Just have a look at how much is spent per year in this country on fluoridation. Around €4m a year overall, but only €1.3m on purchasing of the material. Does that sound like the sort of figures that would be worthy of some grand conspiracy that's meant to line the pockets of pharmaceutical companies, whose turnover, incidentally, would likely be large multiples of this figure?

Capt'n Midnight

Lancet

http://blog.americanchemistry.com/2014/02/authors-ignore-fundamental-principles-of-science-in-lancet-paper-opt-for-alarmism/

Second, the authors’ two reports focus largely on 12 chemicals and heavy metals that are well understood to pose potential risks to children when exposures exceed established thresholds; that are highly regulated and/or are restricted; or that are being phased out. They then extrapolate that similar conclusions should be applied to other chemicals that are more widely used in consumer products without providing any evidence to support their claims.

...
“To implicate high fluoride, which they quote as one of the new chemicals…they quote only one paper; this only compares the mean IQs of children in villages with different levels of fluoride, with no allowance made for any other differences, and no actual measurement of fluoride in individual children and comparison with their IQs. This is not good evidence.”

So if excess levels of "fluoride" are dangerous then perhaps we should set limits ?
We did , over 60 years ago.

Again a reminder that naturally occurring levels of fluoride in water in many parts of the world are way outside our limits

P. Breathnach

weisses wrote: »

...The "everything can be dangerous" spin doesn't fly here

For a very tightly-circumscribed definition of "here".

Capt'n Midnight

Night Falls wrote: »

The "big pharma" conspiracy is also so weak that it doesn't stand up to even the smallest of scrutinies. Just have a look at how much is spent per year in this country on fluoridation. Around €4m a year overall, but only €1.3m on purchasing of the material. Does that sound like the sort of figures that would be worthy of some grand conspiracy that's meant to line the pockets of pharmaceutical companies, whose turnover, incidentally, would likely be large multiples of this figure?

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Source-a-Product-or-Service-from-Ireland/Sector-and-Company-Directories/Pharmaceutical-Sector-Profile.pdf

• In 2009, exports of pharmaceutical and medicinal products
exceeded €19.5 billion making Ireland one of the largest net
exporters of pharmaceuticals in the world.
• Using the broader pharmachem measure, exports in 2009
exceeded €47 billion, or 56% of all Irish exports.
• The pharmaceutical industry in Ireland directly employs over
24,000 people with a further 25,000 employed in the provision of
services to the sector.

And let's not forget that the €1.3m is spent on "toxic waste" rather than a product that big-pharma actually make

It's easier to tell the truth, because it's usually more consistent. When there are whopping great inconsistencies in an argument the likelyhood of it being totally truthful diminish.

Muise...

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Source-a-Product-or-Service-from-Ireland/Sector-and-Company-Directories/Pharmaceutical-Sector-Profile.pdf

And let's not forget that the €1.3m is spent on "toxic waste" rather than a product that big-pharma actually make

It's easier to tell the truth, because it's usually more consistent. When there are whopping great inconsistencies in an argument the likelyhood of it being totally truthful diminish.

Occam's Razor FTW!

Night Falls

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Source-a-Product-or-Service-from-Ireland/Sector-and-Company-Directories/Pharmaceutical-Sector-Profile.pdf

And let's not forget that the €1.3m is spent on "toxic waste" rather than a product that big-pharma actually make

It's easier to tell the truth, because it's usually more consistent. When there are whopping great inconsistencies in an argument the likelyhood of it being totally truthful diminish.

I think this is about the time when someone will interject by hysterically shouting "WASTE PRODUCT" as if that's some sort of argument winner.

weisses

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Lancet

www.repubblica.it/esteri/2014/03/12/foto/cina_-80804697/1/?ref=fbpr

So if excess levels of "fluoride" are dangerous then perhaps we should set limits ?
We did , over 60 years ago.

Again a reminder that naturally occurring levels of fluoride in water in many parts of the world are way outside our limits

My Italian is not that good

So the Lancet article is 60 years out of date ... So much for respectable papers

Its al grant then so ?

Muise...

weisses wrote: »

My Italian is not that good

So the Lancet article is 60 years out of date ... So much for respectable papers

Its al grant then so ?

Your Science is not that good either.

darkpagandeath

So no one is worried about untreated sewage getting into the fresh water supply. Just fluoride ? :pac:

Capt'n Midnight

weisses wrote: »

My Italian is not that good

oops,
try this one http://blog.americanchemistry.com/2014/02/authors-ignore-fundamental-principles-of-science-in-lancet-paper-opt-for-alarmism/

The other one was about trying to stop kids being short sighted

So the Lancet article is 60 years out of date ... So much for respectable papers

Its al grant then so ?

The Lancet article is behind a paywall so meh.

But if the gist of it is telling us that elevated levels of some fluorides can be dangerous then yeah it's 60 years behind the safety legislation.

It's like pointing out that 1950's cars could be safer if they had seat belts when the reality is that today's cars have mandatory seat belts, and also have ABS, crumple zones and air bags.

jh79

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/no-plans-to-examine-fluoride-in-public-water-despite-promise-272173.html

So looks like it is here to stay.

Plates

I see she's having an event on September 28th. Might be good for a laugh? Be interesting to see what new theories she's come up with or if it's just the usual tenuous links to fluoride being the cause of most illnesses in the world:

http://www.thegirlagainstfluoride.com/event/

Bafucin

Sky King wrote: »

I clicked on the links hoping to see her exposed as described.

Sadly, nothing. Don't waste your time.

She just needs to drop that sign she's holding a couple of inches!

jh79

Plates wrote: »

I see she's having an event on September 28th. Might be good for a laugh? Be interesting to see what new theories she's come up with or if it's just the usual tenuous links to fluoride being the cause of most illnesses in the world:

http://www.thegirlagainstfluoride.com/event/

Seems to be just the usual, she says she drinks Pellegrino water and tea so is a bit confused on her fluoride stance given both contain either the same or more fluoride than Irish tap water.

Bafucin

What's her actual name?

Bafucin

http://thatcuriousloveofgreen.com/2013/09/08/a-day-in-the-life-aisling-fitzgibbon-the-girl-against-fluoride/

nevermind I found it...

Pedro K

A pretty good blog regarding this here...

link

zenbuffy

Another Geoff's Shorts link here, about the upcoming fluoride event in Dublin, and the shady goings on with its advertising: http://www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2014/09/the-gig-against-fluoride-wheres-evidence.html?m=1

Definitely worth a read!

zenbuffy

The Seanad will be discussing fluoride tonight, which means there's still time to email them and tell them not to be listening to nonsense...

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document27.htm

Cianmcliam

zenbuffy wrote: »

Another Geoff's Shorts link here, about the upcoming fluoride event in Dublin, and the shady goings on with its advertising: http://www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2014/09/the-gig-against-fluoride-wheres-evidence.html?m=1

Definitely worth a read!

What a shambles. She posted on her Facebook page that it would now be free entry, but didn't seem to respond to people asking if those who paid would get refunds, the post has since been deleted.

AnonoBoy

Cianmcliam wrote: »

What a shambles. She posted on her Facebook page that it would now be free entry, but didn't seem to respond to people asking if those who paid would get refunds, the post has since been deleted.

Free in because no tickets were selling I'd say.

Did anyone go? What sort of turnout was there I wonder.

wp_rathead

zenbuffy wrote: »

The Seanad will be discussing fluoride tonight, which means there's still time to email them and tell them not to be listening to nonsense...

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document27.htm

Thank feck it didn't get abolished eh?

Robbo

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Free in because no tickets were selling I'd say.

Did anyone go? What sort of turnout was there I wonder.

Christy Moore was washing his hair that night I believe. With lovely fluoridey water.

Genghiz Cohen

Robbo wrote: »

With lovely fluoridey water.

Why did I read this in Christy's voice?

AnonoBoy

Robbo wrote: »

Christy Moore was washing his hair that night I believe. With lovely fluoridey water.

It might give you asthma, cancer, brain damage, cancer, depression and cancer but fluoride sure does promote hair growth and keep existing hair silky smooth and tangle free.

ClovenHoof

Slow day at the Civil Service?

You would think this woman was Hitler by the histrionics on this thread.

AnonoBoy

ClovenHoof wrote: »

You would think this woman was Hitler by the histrionics on this thread.

A normal person wouldn't. If you do perhaps it's the fluoride affecting your brain.

Slow day at the Civil Service?

Everyone who works for the Civil Service is legally obligated to post on boards.ie for three hours a day, didn't you know that?