Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Nelson Mandela has passed

Options
1…910121415…19

Comments

  • Options
    #332
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Nodin wrote: »
    Saying "after" implies "soon after".

    Well on the scheme of things 50 years isn't a terribly long time in human history.

    Dunno why you started talking about Jesus and the dinosaurs though, that's just strange.


  • Options
    #333
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    chopper6 wrote: »
    But you said they were 'systematically destroyed'...


    ...as a thriving urban population.

    What's your problem with Mandela using force against the apartheid regime, btw?


  • Options
    #334
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Well on the scheme of things 50 years isn't a terribly long time in human history.

    Dunno why you started talking about Jesus and the dinosaurs though, that's just strange.


    Well on the scheme of things people normally reference events by the chronologically nearest other significant event. In this case it would be World War II.


  • Options
    #335
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...as a thriving urban population.


    No... You said they were destroyed..implying they were all killed.

    Lots of countries have people moving from rural areas to cities it doesn't mean it's a systematic policy of genocide.


  • Options
    #336
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well on the scheme of things people normally reference events by the chronologically nearest other significant event. In this case it would be World War II.


    Ww2 didn't affect SA though so the nearest significant local conflict would've been the last boer war.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #337
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    chopper6 wrote: »
    No... You said they were destroyed..implying they were all killed. .

    That's your obtuse reading of it, but its clearly not what I meant.
    chopper6 wrote: »
    Lots of countries have people moving from rural areas to cities it doesn't mean it's a systematic policy of genocide.


    Why do you keep trying to soften what was done? It was forcible relocation.

    Why do you have a problem with Mandela forcibly resisting apartheid?


  • Options
    #338
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Ww2 didn't affect SA though so the nearest significant local conflict would've been the last boer war.


    Yeah, pull the other one.


  • Options
    #339
    sue_me
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭sue_me


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    The truth sometimes is hard for people to swallow, but its true, nelson and Gerry were great friends, and nelson didn't agree with the provos putting their arms beyond use.


    he knew leverage was nesscessery , no guns = no hand to play

    might be unpalatable but real politic is about being pragmatic


  • Options
    #340
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    chopper6 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure most of the hand wringers and those 'mourning' mandella weren't even born in the 80' much less know anything about SA other than 'apartheid is bad m'kay'
    Well they certainly seem to know a lot more than you.


  • Options
    #341
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    chopper6 wrote: »
    I in no way condoned or condone the apartheid regime...it was put in place to subjugate the blacks and cape-coloured after the boer war. It's not fair to say that is was an evil regime as such, many black South Africans at the upper echelons if society did very well indeed from it as of course did the whites.
    It was a totally and thoroughly evil regime.
    It was the policing of townships such as Sowetto where black people lived in shanty owns that marked the brutality of the regime..even so bombing villains will tend to harden a governments resolve in dealing with terrorists and mandellas was released because of a softening of attitudes and his becoming a cause célèbre amongst left-leaning whites.
    All completely false.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #342
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Good article on the relationship between the provos and nelson mandella.

    http://ansionnachfionn.com/2011/08/29/black-provos-the-anc-and-the-ira

    Wow .... there's an unreliable and biased source if ever there were one.


  • Options
    #343
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    The truth sometimes is hard for people to swallow, but its true, nelson and Gerry were great friends, and nelson didn't agree with the provos putting their arms beyond use.

    Mandela's and Adams' relationship isn't unpalatable, it's people's attempts at turning this thread into a Provo fanboy thread that is distasteful.


  • Options
    #344
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    The truth sometimes is hard for people to swallow, but its true, nelson and Gerry were great friends, and nelson didn't agree with the provos putting their arms beyond use.

    They were never good friends. Not even friends. Lies remain lies no matter how hard some people find it. Mandela did agree with the peace process, fully. he inspired it.


  • Options
    #345
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Says the guy who's been purposefully going against the grain to promote his republican agenda since the poor guy died.

    Never let a tragedy go unexploited - the mantra of some.


  • Options
    #346
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Piliger wrote: »
    Wow .... there's an unreliable and biased source if ever there were one.

    Don't think so, its all facts, it is well known they had links and the provos trained the ANC.


  • Options
    #347
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Mandela's and Adams' relationship isn't unpalatable, it's people's attempts at turning this thread into a Provo fanboy thread that is distasteful.

    Its just a discussion Fred, you obviously can't think outside of the provos and Adams.


  • Options
    #348
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Mandela's and Adams' relationship isn't unpalatable, it's people's attempts at turning this thread into a Provo fanboy thread that is distasteful.
    The usual sicking kind of stuff. Nothing more and nothing less. Mandeal's ANC reaching out to the IRA was essentially based on ignorance of the IRA and their methods and desperation to gain some skills needed to damage the infrastructure of the regime, but in a completely and fundamentally different way. The ANC worked to attack infrastructure and not innocent people. The IRA targeting innocent people to destroy lives as a core strategy.


  • Options
    #349
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Don't think so, its all facts, it is well known they had links and the provos trained the ANC.

    No one disputes that.


  • Options
    #350
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭OldRio


    chopper6 wrote: »
    I in no way condoned or condone the apartheid regime...it was put in place to subjugate the blacks and cape-coloured after the boer war.

    Apartheid was put in place in 1948. Way after the Boer war.
    A pure evil that was a blight on our planet.


  • Options
    #351
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Piliger wrote: »
    The ANC worked to attack infrastructure and not innocent people. The IRA targeting innocent people to destroy lives as a core strategy.


    Why then was mandella convicted of planning to blow up a shopping centre full of people?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #352
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Its just a discussion Fred, you obviously can't think outside of the provos and Adams.

    Ok, discuss this. Carlos Rocha and.the others who thanked his post would do well to read it.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela


  • Options
    #353
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Piliger wrote: »
    The usual sicking kind of stuff. Nothing more and nothing less. Mandeal's ANC reaching out to the IRA was essentially based on ignorance of the IRA and their methods and desperation to gain some skills needed to damage the infrastructure of the regime, but in a completely and fundamentally different way. The ANC worked to attack infrastructure and not innocent people. The IRA targeting innocent people to destroy lives as a core strategy.

    Huh? The ANC bombed schools cinemas, shopping malls you name it.

    Many innocent people died as a result.

    Have you actually read about the conflict at all?


  • Options
    #354
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Huh? The ANC bombed schools cinemas, shopping malls you name it.

    Many innocent people died as a result.

    Have you actually read about the conflict at all?

    Of course he hasn't.

    Nelson mandella was a nice,peacefully man who was only imprisoned for 27 years because he was black.

    And if the ANC did kill anybody they obviously deserved it because all white people are genocidal racists.


  • Options
    #355
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Why then was mandella convicted of planning to blow up a shopping centre full of people?


    He wasn't, afaik.

    The charges were
    "recruiting persons for training in the preparation and use of explosives and in guerrilla warfare for the purpose of violent revolution and committing acts of sabotage
    conspiring to commit the aforementioned acts and to aid foreign military units when they invaded the Republic,
    acting in these ways to further the objects of communism
    soliciting and receiving money for these purposes from sympathizers in Algeria, Ethiopia, Liberia, Nigeria, Tunisia, and elsewhere.
    "Production requirements" for munitions for a six-month period were sufficient, the prosecutor Percy Yutar said in his opening address, to blow up a city the size of Johannesburg.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivonia_Trial


  • Options
    #356
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Ok, discuss this. Carlos Rocha and.the others who thanked his post would do well to read it.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela

    Long read and then not one piece of evidence to support this bizarre theory.
    The right wing are in some spin regarding the death of Mandela.
    I do remember some members of the Tory party wearing badges with 'Hang Nelson Mandela' Very classy.


  • Options
    #357
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    chopper6 wrote: »
    Of course he hasn't.

    Nelson mandella was a nice,peacefully man who was only imprisoned for 27 years because he was black.

    And if the ANC did kill anybody they obviously deserved it because all white people are genocidal racists.


    A pathetically childish remark. It's like saying the allies bombed Germany because it had Germans in it.


    What is your objection to the use of force against apartheid?


  • Options
    #358
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    chopper6 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure most of the hand wringers and those 'mourning' mandella weren't even born in the 80' much less know anything about SA other than 'apartheid is bad m'kay'
    How on earth are you pretty sure? It's not exactly hard to research what apartheid was like. Although no doubt someone will come along and say there are no impartial sources on it.
    It's you that doesn't seem to have a solid grasp of what that system was like. It's puzzling when people minimise it.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Says the guy who's been purposefully going against the grain to promote his republican agenda since the poor guy died.
    Got me mixed up with someone else I think.


  • Options
    #359
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    OldRio wrote: »
    Long read and then not one piece of evidence to support this bizarre theory.
    The right wing are in some spin regarding the death of Mandela.
    I do remember some members of the Tory party wearing badges with 'Hang Nelson Mandela' Very classy.

    Except that was written before his death. In fact it was written after Thatcher's. It also appeared in the guardian, which isn't exactly a right wing newspaper.

    Buy hey, obviously an article in militant republican weekly is much more believable.


  • Options
    #360
    chopper6
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭chopper6


    Nodin wrote: »
    A pathetically childish remark. It's like saying the allies bombed Germany because it had Germans in it.

    Germans were the ones the were fighting against werent they?

    or maybe you think the allies bombed germany in order to save the jews?

    Nodin wrote: »
    What is your objection to the use of force against apartheid?

    I dont have an objection to the use of force as such...what i do object to is the eulogising a man capable of extreme terrorism as some sort of peacefull here.

    Obviously 'republicans' are not averse to a spot of civilian "collateral damage" but watching human body parts being scopped up with shovels from the streets throughout the 70's and 80's makes me deplore those who bomb civilians,for whatever reason.

    I'm curious..had Mandella been a white man convicted of attempting to bomb people in Zimbabwe( a country with a Govt-sanctioned anti-white policy) would you still eulogise him as some sort of hero?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #361
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Except that was written before his death. In fact it was written after Thatcher's. It also appeared in the guardian, which isn't exactly a right wing newspaper.

    Buy hey, obviously an article in militant republican weekly is much more believable.

    Please show me where I said that ?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement